Author Topic: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming  (Read 8491 times)

McGrupp

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2013, 08:08:33 am »
After a week of figuring out how to set things up (mainly because I didn't realize my comp didn't have bluetooth) I have set up and started messing around with a Neurosky Mindwave.


And then McCrupp was a technozombie.   :horrormirth:
:lulz:
You say that as though hooking my brain up to a computer and engaging in amateur pseudo-intellectual experiments in a poorly understood science can possibly be a bad thing. What could go wrong?

If I get a brainmail, I'm out. Although it would probably be too late then.

Doktor Howl

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2013, 07:09:33 pm »
After a week of figuring out how to set things up (mainly because I didn't realize my comp didn't have bluetooth) I have set up and started messing around with a Neurosky Mindwave.


And then McCrupp was a technozombie.   :horrormirth:
:lulz:
You say that as though hooking my brain up to a computer and engaging in amateur pseudo-intellectual experiments in a poorly understood science can possibly be a bad thing. What could go wrong?

If I get a brainmail, I'm out. Although it would probably be too late then.

REMEMBER, 10:00 IS COMPULSORY ADVERTISEMENT TIME.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2013, 02:07:25 am »
Did you ever find a decent program to record the raw waveforms? The best one I've found is LucidScribe but I haven't been able to copy the logs or manipulate the graphs in a reasonable way. Even the copied pictures don't retain their x and y axis markers.

I'm on Linux and I don't have a windows install that's functional right now, so my choices are limited. Luckily, there's a plethora of half-working python scripts written by newbs in fits of mania to interface with Neurosky devices. None of them produce log files because they're more interested in visualization for biofeedback, but I've had some luck just plugging a couple extra lines in to spew numbers to a file, which I can cook and graph later. It's not much different from what I do at work all day.


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McGrupp

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2013, 09:21:54 pm »
Did you ever find a decent program to record the raw waveforms? The best one I've found is LucidScribe but I haven't been able to copy the logs or manipulate the graphs in a reasonable way. Even the copied pictures don't retain their x and y axis markers.

I'm on Linux and I don't have a windows install that's functional right now, so my choices are limited. Luckily, there's a plethora of half-working python scripts written by newbs in fits of mania to interface with Neurosky devices. None of them produce log files because they're more interested in visualization for biofeedback, but I've had some luck just plugging a couple extra lines in to spew numbers to a file, which I can cook and graph later. It's not much different from what I do at work all day.

Right on, I'll have to look for those online. I just downloaded OpenVibe, which seems like it might be just what I'm looking for. Haven't gotten it to work yet, but I imagine that has more to do with me than the program. It's super cool to meet someone else who's messing around with Neurosky.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2013, 01:36:00 am »
Brainbay is supposed to be very good, and it is open source, but it's windows-only and doesn't work in emulation (and the source is so VS-dependent that I can't trivially port it). Plus, the source package doesn't have an embedded directory (it's just a zip file with everything in archive root), so if I extract it without thinking, it just spews a bunch of files into the current directory. Total PITA.


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Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2013, 01:42:35 am »
With regard to the other side of EEG, have you looked at the Adafruit brain machine? I bought and built one, and it certainly puts me into an altered state. Trip says that binaural entrainment is overkill because monaural works just as well, and he's probably right: the flashing lights seem to do more for this than the audio, and the lights are putting out one signal instead of two. I wouldn't mind seeing if it's effective to drive the same signal to the eyes as you do with the ears but flip sides.

I haven't been able to get a clean reading on effects of this unit with any of my EEG machines, in part because I don't typically feel like doing mad scientist shit unless I've already got enough caffeine in me that I jump two feet at the first unexpected loud noise, and in part because I can't really get 40 minutes of clean data recorded with the free implementations (I hacked it using a screen-recording program, but I had to wiggle my mouse perpetually in order to prevent the screensaver from popping up and obscuring the recording, which threw off the waves).


I am not “full of hate” as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

McGrupp

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2013, 03:27:09 am »
Going to take a look at brainbay. I'd love to build one of those openEEG projects next time I have the extra cash for it.

So far I've just been playing around with just listening to the signals. Haven't done much in terms of neurofeedback yet.  The brain machine looks interesting. I might try it out, seems like a fun project too. I haven't soldered anything in a while.

I was actually looking at doing something with binaural rhythms. There does seem to be some science backing the idea that it can temporarily affect brainwaves. Although the answer to that question ranges from:

NO: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12722933

to YES: http://przyrbwn.icm.edu.pl/APP/PDF/119/a119z6Ap17.pdf

to YES BUT WE BELIEVE ALL KINDS OF CRAZY THINGS: http://www.neuroacoustic.com/entrainment.html

In theory it shouldn't be hard to test. Just headphones and a binaural beat set to around 10hz to stimulate alpha waves. That I should be able to do using the Lucid Scribe program.

Halfbaked theory of the day:

It has been claimed that binaural beats can also induce theta waves. It has also been claimed that a preponderance of theta waves makes people easier to hypnotize(I don't know anything about hypnosis and I haven't actually checked out this claim.) However, if this is true than it seems like you would be able to induce theta waves in an auditorium or concert hall. Simply have the speakers on the left and right side of the room be off by around 5hz. The audience is then susceptible to hypnosis and suggestion. Apply to political speaking engagements or some strange rave techno cult and you'd have mass hypnosis. But again this is a way out there halfbaked extrapolation.

My understanding is that photostimulation works in a similar way and there is in fact quite a bit of documentation to that effect.

Also I need to use pizza to bribe some of the neurologists I work with so I can pick their brains about this sort of thing. Doctors will do anything for snacks.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 08:37:56 pm »
Unfortunately, sleepiness, booze, and slow droning speech also make it easier to hypnotize people. In other words, every boring meeting or disciplinary conference. Theta wouldn't really help too much, and hypnosis isn't all that powerful -- just more spectacular. Not everybody's suggestible, and most people aren't suggestible enough to induce the really interesting hallucinations/behaviors, even in optimal conditions.

However, every time you go to a particularly boring meeting, twenty percent of the people there are probably being hypnotized.


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Reginald Ret

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2013, 02:11:29 pm »
Unfortunately, sleepiness, booze, and slow droning speech also make it easier to hypnotize people. In other words, every boring meeting or disciplinary conference. Theta wouldn't really help too much, and hypnosis isn't all that powerful -- just more spectacular. Not everybody's suggestible, and most people aren't suggestible enough to induce the really interesting hallucinations/behaviors, even in optimal conditions.

However, every time you go to a particularly boring meeting, twenty percent of the people there are probably being hypnotized.
Optimist. More like 80%
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Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: Experiments in Neurofeedback, Meditation, and Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2013, 02:52:59 pm »
Most of the meetings I've attended have been fairly exciting. There's usually someone next to me who is literally asleep, though.


I am not “full of hate” as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.