Author Topic: Thread is now about Holist.  (Read 26427 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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totally ignoring that most if not all his well known works were for financial gain. or throughout history great works of art were produced on a commission by people who were professionally trained to produce tgat type of work. That there were guilds built around many of the arts.

It's were the term "patronage" comes from, after all.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
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Dildo Argentino

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I think holist might be confusing "authentic" with "music that means something to me, subjectively."

That I take as a valid suggestion that I shall have to consider carefully.

Except what about all the music that I consider to be authentic but hardly ever listen to because it doesn't say anything to me, subjectively?

But I don't mean that as a rebuke, you may still have a point there. There may be some sort of overlap.
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

The Good Reverend Roger

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I think holist might be confusing "authentic" with "music that means something to me, subjectively."

That I take as a valid suggestion that I shall have to consider carefully.

Except what about all the music that I consider to be authentic but hardly ever listen to because it doesn't say anything to me, subjectively?

But I don't mean that as a rebuke, you may still have a point there. There may be some sort of overlap.

Starting to think my original assessment "authenticity is meaningless" is completely accurate.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Dildo Argentino

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Well fuck this for a game of billiards. I'm out.

I'm out because I think I am being willfully misinterpreted, and that may be a fine hobby, but I can't be bothered.

Roger keeps insisting that I claim that anything successful can't be authentic, which is something I never said.

Coyote claims I am making up an ideology to bolster my ego against the insecurity generated by the simple fact that I tend to like off-beat stuff.

I'm going to take a rest.

It's not others' impression of my taste in music I worry about, it's my own. And I enjoy worrying about it, so I won't stop. :)

Laters!
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

The Good Reverend Roger

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Well fuck this for a game of billiards. I'm out.

I'm out because I think I am being willfully misinterpreted, and that may be a fine hobby, but I can't be bothered.

Roger keeps insisting that I claim that anything successful can't be authentic, which is something I never said.

Coyote claims I am making up an ideology to bolster my ego against the insecurity generated by the simple fact that I tend to like off-beat stuff.

I'm going to take a rest.

It's not others' impression of my taste in music I worry about, it's my own. And I enjoy worrying about it, so I won't stop. :)

Laters!

Um, okay.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Don Coyote

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I think holist might be confusing "authentic" with "music that means something to me, subjectively."

That I take as a valid suggestion that I shall have to consider carefully.

Except what about all the music that I consider to be authentic but hardly ever listen to because it doesn't say anything to me, subjectively?

But I don't mean that as a rebuke, you may still have a point there. There may be some sort of overlap.

Starting to think my original assessment "authenticity is meaningless" is completely accurate.
I agree,  but then again I think "art" is meaningless with regards to classifying cultural artifacts.

The Good Reverend Roger

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I think holist might be confusing "authentic" with "music that means something to me, subjectively."

That I take as a valid suggestion that I shall have to consider carefully.

Except what about all the music that I consider to be authentic but hardly ever listen to because it doesn't say anything to me, subjectively?

But I don't mean that as a rebuke, you may still have a point there. There may be some sort of overlap.

Starting to think my original assessment "authenticity is meaningless" is completely accurate.
I agree,  but then again I think "art" is meaningless with regards to classifying cultural artifacts.

I don't.

Art is something that people create or obtain, at least in part, to make life more than a set of work equations.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Don Coyote

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Well fuck this for a game of billiards. I'm out.

I'm out because I think I am being willfully misinterpreted, and that may be a fine hobby, but I can't be bothered.

Roger keeps insisting that I claim that anything successful can't be authentic, which is something I never said.

Coyote claims I am making up an ideology to bolster my ego against the insecurity generated by the simple fact that I tend to like off-beat stuff.

I'm going to take a rest.

It's not others' impression of my taste in music I worry about, it's my own. And I enjoy worrying about it, so I won't stop. :)

Laters!

well fuxk. I did have a post all about how I was going to more carefully reread your posts but it got ate and then the conversation drifted far enough that it felt it would unnecessary to repost,  but well go get fucked if that is your attitude about my and Roger 's opinions.

Dildo Argentino

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And I think now would be the correct time for you to go to the end of this and take the piss out of me/my band (The Dream Ferry)for a change.


pls

also: Coyote: What attitude? That I think I am being wilfully misinterpreted? I could be wrong. HEnce I decided to step back. I'd be grateful if you would look at it again and tell me what you think. TOmorrow (because my today is over anyway, tomorrow is a schoolday, I get up in about 7 and a half hours, and I've got some reading to do before slumbertimes).
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

AFK

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Let's just turn this around.

An artist or band does it purely for the love of it.  Does this mean that what they produce is authentic?

Yes.

A band that sits there and churns out assembly line pop to please their corporate masters is not.

It's the difference between artisan cheese and a Kraft single. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Ben Shapiro

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Let's just turn this around.

An artist or band does it purely for the love of it.  Does this mean that what they produce is authentic?

Yes.

A band that sits there and churns out assembly line pop to please their corporate masters is not.

It's the difference between artisan cheese and a Kraft single. 

So what's the % of milk fat before something is cheese (Nirvana) , and something is a cheese product (Smooth Jazz)?

The Good Reverend Roger

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Let's just turn this around.

An artist or band does it purely for the love of it.  Does this mean that what they produce is authentic?

Yes.

A band that sits there and churns out assembly line pop to please their corporate masters is not.

It's the difference between artisan cheese and a Kraft single.

Then I'd say that authenticity is worthless, if that's the standard.  I've known many bands that do it strictly for the love of it, because they can't find anyone to pay for their crap.

And the cheese thing?   :lulz:  Kraft singles have their place, unless you want "artisan cheese" on your grilled cheese sandwich.

Artisan cheese.  Is there really even such a thing?  :lol:

You're such an elitist.  Cracks my shit up.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

AFK

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I'm not exactly a Warrant fan, but when they did their "Cherry Pie" album, it was actually supposed to be called "Uncle Tom's Cabin" after the song of the same name.  The song "Cherry Pie" didn't exist.  The record company sent him home to write a radio-friendly unit-shifter.  What (for a hair metal band) was an artistic expression of their vision became complete corporate schlock.  It was completely manufactured, not to express anything, but to titillate to get eyeballs, and move units. 

Sounds familiar...
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Ben Shapiro

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Let's just turn this around.

An artist or band does it purely for the love of it.  Does this mean that what they produce is authentic?

Yes.

A band that sits there and churns out assembly line pop to please their corporate masters is not.

It's the difference between artisan cheese and a Kraft single.

Then I'd say that authenticity is worthless, if that's the standard.  I've known many bands that do it strictly for the love of it, because they can't find anyone to pay for their crap.

And the cheese thing?   :lulz:  Kraft singles have their place, unless you want "artisan cheese" on your grilled cheese sandwich.

Artisan cheese.  Is there really even such a thing?  :lol:

You're such an elitist.  Cracks my shit up.

Hush Roger he can identify over 27 different kinds of cheese.

The Good Reverend Roger

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I'm not exactly a Warrant fan, but when they did their "Cherry Pie" album, it was actually supposed to be called "Uncle Tom's Cabin" after the song of the same name.  The song "Cherry Pie" didn't exist.  The record company sent him home to write a radio-friendly unit-shifter.  What (for a hair metal band) was an artistic expression of their vision became complete corporate schlock.  It was completely manufactured, not to express anything, but to titillate to get eyeballs, and move units. 

Sounds familiar...

Well, sure.  Because ripping off Harriet Tubman's title would have been fucking BRILLIANT.

Whomever the suit was that made that call was the best friend Warrant ever had.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.