Author Topic: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft  (Read 2786 times)

Demolition Squid

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6600
  • Bank?! OH SHIIIIIIIIT!
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 07:31:30 pm »
I've gotta say, having been reading some really racist literature of the same period (Prester John was written in 1910), Lovecraft had issues with race, but he was by no means the worst around.

I'm a huge fan of Lovecraft, so I'm no doubt biased, but whilst you can read him as being anti-progress, I think he was more critical of insular communities and backwards thinking than you give him credit for. Many of his stories are about inbred communities who hide dark secrets, and how slavish devotion to tradition or the elder generation leads to horrible ends.

Also, whilst Abdul Alhazred may not be a 'hero' in the typical sense, within the Lovecraft canon he is also one of the only figures who gets to stick two fingers up to the nameless horrors and make sense of it. And he is, famously, the 'Mad Arab'. One of the most renowned and recurring figures.

My personal favorite is The Rats in the Walls. There's a lot of Lovecraft stories which haven't stood the test of time, but that one still managed to give me a shiver when I read it, and I still love his writing. Yes, there's a lot of fear of the unknown in them... but a lot of it is because he is examining the implications of there being no God, if the universe really cares nothing for the existence of humans, and he tries to make that nihilistic nothingness the real core of his horror. It was new and exciting, and its a pity that so many geeks just take all their Lovecraft from the Call of Cthulhu RPG and act as though he thought tentacles were the last word in terror. He didn't.
Vast and Roaring Nipplebeast from the Dawn of Soho

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 07:45:01 pm »
Also, whilst Abdul Alhazred may not be a 'hero' in the typical sense, within the Lovecraft canon he is also one of the only figures who gets to stick two fingers up to the nameless horrors and make sense of it. And he is, famously, the 'Mad Arab'. One of the most renowned and recurring figures.

Okay, I'll give you that.

Quote
It was new and exciting, and its a pity that so many geeks just take all their Lovecraft from the Call of Cthulhu RPG and act as though he thought tentacles were the last word in terror. He didn't.

And that's almost a shame, because you can get some serious mileage out of tentacles.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Demolition Squid

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6600
  • Bank?! OH SHIIIIIIIIT!
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 07:49:06 pm »
And that's almost a shame, because you can get some serious mileage out of tentacles.

Hah, true.

Also, many of Lovecraft's protagonists were men of learning or scientists, very few of his stories glorified violence in the way typical of the era. Much of the violence is brutal, bloody, and as likely to kill off a lead as anything - there's some examples of PTSD in there, too, which wasn't something really touched on in the time.

I'm not saying he was the most progressive guy around, but I do think there's a reason a lot of his stories resonate today where others have fallen by the wayside.
Vast and Roaring Nipplebeast from the Dawn of Soho

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 07:52:59 pm »
And that's almost a shame, because you can get some serious mileage out of tentacles.

Hah, true.

Also, many of Lovecraft's protagonists were men of learning or scientists, very few of his stories glorified violence in the way typical of the era. Much of the violence is brutal, bloody, and as likely to kill off a lead as anything - there's some examples of PTSD in there, too, which wasn't something really touched on in the time.

I'm not saying he was the most progressive guy around, but I do think there's a reason a lot of his stories resonate today where others have fallen by the wayside.

And that's kind of the bit that pisses me off.  Most of the problems in the Lovecraft stories could be solved with a couple of companies of light infantry.

And in at least 3 cases, they were.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 07:53:46 pm »
I don't see the criticism against insular communities as contrary to his other views. Lovecraft didn't want any change, and part of that is the slow decay of (Superior White) families into degenerate backwoods sorcerers. It's worth pointing out that Lovecraft came from some money and was a significant factor in that family's fall from grace. He ended his life barely scraping by on what was left of his inheritance, never making any kind of profit off his work and generally being terrible at holding a job.

Color Out of Space is a good one for people who are stuck on tentacle monster Lovecraft.

ALSO (damn you new replies) his men of science are not very progressive, themselves. He likes the kind of scientist that prays to Newton every night.
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

SuuCal

  • The Goddamn Industry Professional Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 177135
  • Heartless and regal murderess of the intertubes.
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 08:54:52 pm »
Providence also gave us these guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGNOfRzDysw
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 10:04:52 pm »
There's one more thing I think he got right.

Lovecraft was no fan of copyright and intellectual property the way it gets used now. Part of the reason his work is remembered is because he actively encouraged people to riff off his ideas and use his settings and props. He also riffed heavily off other contemporary authors. His sloppy handling of his posthumous copyright also means that the majority of it reverted to public domain quickly. It probably wasn't much comfort to him in his life, but it's an attitude I appreciate.
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 10:49:23 pm »
There's one more thing I think he got right.

Lovecraft was no fan of copyright and intellectual property the way it gets used now. Part of the reason his work is remembered is because he actively encouraged people to riff off his ideas and use his settings and props. He also riffed heavily off other contemporary authors. His sloppy handling of his posthumous copyright also means that the majority of it reverted to public domain quickly. It probably wasn't much comfort to him in his life, but it's an attitude I appreciate.

Well, he died broke, which is a pretty good method of supporting "free information".

 :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 11:06:05 pm »
There's one more thing I think he got right.

Lovecraft was no fan of copyright and intellectual property the way it gets used now. Part of the reason his work is remembered is because he actively encouraged people to riff off his ideas and use his settings and props. He also riffed heavily off other contemporary authors. His sloppy handling of his posthumous copyright also means that the majority of it reverted to public domain quickly. It probably wasn't much comfort to him in his life, but it's an attitude I appreciate.

Well, he died broke, which is a pretty good method of supporting "free information".

 :lulz:

Often the fate of folks on this side, it's true. I like to think there's something between Disney Style Copyright and IP and total anarchy :P
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2013, 03:36:59 pm »
There's one more thing I think he got right.

Lovecraft was no fan of copyright and intellectual property the way it gets used now. Part of the reason his work is remembered is because he actively encouraged people to riff off his ideas and use his settings and props. He also riffed heavily off other contemporary authors. His sloppy handling of his posthumous copyright also means that the majority of it reverted to public domain quickly. It probably wasn't much comfort to him in his life, but it's an attitude I appreciate.

Well, he died broke, which is a pretty good method of supporting "free information".

 :lulz:

Often the fate of folks on this side, it's true. I like to think there's something between Disney Style Copyright and IP and total anarchy :P

I think someone should build a house.

I think they should use their own effort and materials.

I think I should get to move in, and make them live in the garage.

Oh yeah, oh yeah

I think I should get it for free.

I think my price of admission to the internet should cover all subsequent expenses.  Like when you go to a comicon and the entrance ticket means you get to take a copy of everything at the con.

You know?  Yeah.  Oh yeah.

Yeah.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2013, 03:40:44 pm »
I think I should make a creative work that NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING WITH FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS AFTER I'M DEAD. That's totally fair to the culture that raised me and filled me with enough interesting ideas that I was able to synthesize my own.

Or we could not play hyperbole?
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2013, 03:52:53 pm »
Guys, we just finished with a drug thread, as well as a tribalistic bias thread.


Do we really need to start a copyright thread so soon?



That much said, it's all you "information wants to be free" types that have prevented me from being a professional musician.


Well, that, and DOUR™.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2013, 03:54:55 pm »
Guys, we just finished with a drug thread, as well as a tribalistic bias thread.


Do we really need to start a copyright thread so soon?



That much said, it's all you "information wants to be free" types that have prevented me from being a professional musician.


Well, that, and DOUR™.

But LMNO, I have a Uniform I need to keep clean!
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2013, 04:00:16 pm »
Do we really need to start a copyright thread so soon?

It's the will of the Gods.

Quote
That much said, it's all you "information wants to be free" types that have prevented me from being a professional musician.

Starve for your art, or it's not authentic. 

Quote
Well, that, and DOUR™.

And Nigel's dick up your ass.

:hammer:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Shit people get wrong about Lovecraft
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2013, 04:00:58 pm »
I think I should make a creative work that NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING WITH FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS AFTER I'M DEAD. That's totally fair to the culture that raised me and filled me with enough interesting ideas that I was able to synthesize my own.

Or we could not play hyperbole?

I don't view that as hyperbole.  I view it as JUST.

Your culture didn't make it.  YOU did.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.