Author Topic: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?  (Read 20501 times)

Junkenstein

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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2014, 10:35:43 pm »
That's an understatement:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26280710

Quote
Ukraine's health ministry says 75 people have now died and 571 have been injured in violence since Tuesday.

At least 21 protesters were killed by security forces in Kiev on Thursday following the breakdown of a truce the previous day.

Several dead bodies of protesters killed on Thursday were brought to Independence Square, the focal point of the protests, the BBC's Duncan Crawford in Kiev reports.

Assembled crowds shouted "martyrs!" and "heroes!", with some protesters in tears, our correspondent adds.

Witnesses have told the BBC that some of those killed on Thursday died as a result of single gunshot wounds, typical of sniper fire.

Video footage has emerged apparently showing snipers firing on demonstrators who had been trying to retake their protest camp in Independence Square.

The authorities said that one policeman had died and that 67 police had been captured by protesters.

Officials said more than 20 policemen had also been injured.

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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2014, 10:37:35 pm »
Well apparently a truce is agreed with the toll standing at "at least 26". Will be interesting to see how long it holds for.

The answer appears to be "Much less than 24 hours".
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2014, 10:51:27 pm »
These are interesting times!
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2014, 09:55:11 am »

The authorities said that one policeman had died and that 67 police had been captured by protesters.


Police Control. Kinda like the inverse of Crowd Control. Something I suspect we'll all benefit from learning a bit of in the near future. I got a kick out of the cops entrenched in a schiltrom of riot sheilds. Effectively neutralised. Also interesting was the "scalped" riot shields a lot of the protesters were seen using. Heavily armed only works when you can keep a hold of the heavy arms  :wink:
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2014, 05:30:02 pm »

The authorities said that one policeman had died and that 67 police had been captured by protesters.


Police Control. Kinda like the inverse of Crowd Control. Something I suspect we'll all benefit from learning a bit of in the near future. I got a kick out of the cops entrenched in a schiltrom of riot sheilds. Effectively neutralised. Also interesting was the "scalped" riot shields a lot of the protesters were seen using. Heavily armed only works when you can keep a hold of the heavy arms  :wink:

More to the point:  Police are a tiny minority, no matter how well armed.
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2014, 06:51:50 pm »
Yeah but tactics, training and kit can and does go a long way to addressing the balance. I'm trying to think of something new. A distributed viral tactical implementation. Something along the lines of an app or even a meme that takes advantage of swarm or flocking dynamics of undisciplined mobs and directs it without a chain of command.

There's a couple of things that would really help give the good guys a leg up. Dividing and isolating the opposition , requisitioning the weapons, deploying non combatant units for maximum effect. I'll admit the whole concept is still pretty woolly but it's one I think is worth working on. The kind of behaviour I'm talking about is demonstrated by starlings, fish or ants. I don't think it's a complex ruleset.
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2014, 07:42:06 pm »
Yeah but tactics, training and kit can and does go a long way to addressing the balance. I'm trying to think of something new.

It seems to be working there.  No fear of police = no police, practically speaking.
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2014, 07:42:54 pm »
A distributed viral tactical implementation.
This is a really cool concept I've been thinking about recently as well...hard as fuck to make it concrete though.
Quote
Something along the lines of an app or even a meme that takes advantage of swarm or flocking dynamics of undisciplined mobs and directs it without a chain of command.

Infographics...basically, you draft up an info graphic on, say, first aid or small unit tactics or how to operate an AK-74 or whatever. You load it with ideological sloagans and weasally language (i.e. describe a grenade as a "fascist thumper" or whatever...) that support the political aim of your campaign and then boom: if the info is useful, you now have people who subtly are effected by your strategic aims being trained in your SOP for running an operation.

I will say this though: you mention swarm/flock dynamics and all that jazz. This may be fine and dandy for a non-lethal protest movement, but once you get an enemy who's using live ammo and firing on non-coms and medics...yeah, not a fucking protest anymore. I'd suggest coming up with a way to make fire and maneuvre tactics a reality in that situation -- just charging at a formation hoping to breach their lines is gonna end up with a bunch of dead friendlies.



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The kind of behaviour I'm talking about is demonstrated by starlings, fish or ants. I don't think it's a complex ruleset.

Fish, ants and starlings don't have to deal with small arms fire...

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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2014, 07:48:01 pm »
The Portland Occupy folks had some serious success with a "bike mob". Kept the police out of an occupied city park for 2 days & nights by having a swarm of bikes ride constantly around the perimeter.
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2014, 08:31:42 pm »
That only works when the police aren't willing to bring in the water cannons.
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2014, 09:20:24 pm »
And fuck all works against snipers.
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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2014, 09:36:39 pm »
And fuck all works against snipers.

dense smoke screens...

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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2014, 09:42:50 pm »
That only works when the police aren't willing to bring in the water cannons.

True. The occupy folks were definitely banking on any media attention being in their favor, and because the bike mob was technically NOT "loitering" it was very hard for the police authorities on the ground to find something to charge the bike people with. If the water cannons have already been deployed (or if harming a bunch of "law abiding cyclists" would not get media attention), this isn't a good tactic.
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Junkenstein

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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2014, 10:42:49 pm »
And fuck all works against snipers.

dense smoke screens...

Feeling lucky?
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von

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Re: Anybody look at Ukraine lately?
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2014, 10:52:31 pm »
And fuck all works against snipers.

dense smoke screens...

Feeling lucky?

well, the fuck else are you really gonna do?
you COULD go try to send guys to occupy all of the decent/likely sniper spots in the area...but that'd imply you have the man power AND know what those spots would be (i.e. you have someone with you who's trained in sniper tactics)
You could also engage in counter-sniping...but again, this requires someone well-versed in sniper tactics.

so yeah, I'd say that if you're really on about whatever it is your band of people are doing, burn some tires and run like fuck and use cover/concealment when you're in more open areas...

sucks, but it is what it is...