Author Topic: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)  (Read 6701 times)

Reginald Ret

  • 'Miserable Atrocianthrope'
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 38806
  • Interweb Gloryhole QC Inspector #23
    • View Profile
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2014, 09:54:59 pm »
Yeah, I'm still seeing no negative effects here. Just a couple of positive ones, I'd never thought about. The coups and political machinations are what's going to stack up in opposition to this kind of thing happening but, if it somehow managed to happen, in spite of that, who's going to be worse off? I'm hypothesising - actually doing this would seem nigh on impossible? If a method of beating these odds became obvious is it the right thing to attempt?
All the things Westerners now assume are their rights would get mor expensive. Anything made by externalizing costs (i.e. slave or child labor) like electronics, clothes or imported food would become prohibitively expensive. For Americans the worst part would be the increase in the cost of cars and fuel.
The rich won't really be influenced by this, though they would whine, they just couldn't buy a third yacht. The poor though, would be fucked beyond comprehension when Walmart and such suddenly start demanding reasonable prices for things like shirts and chocolate. Would you make a shirt for that price? You know what a shirt should cost, it just never happened to you that you were actually expected to pay that much for it.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2014, 10:06:03 pm »
My thinking is that the poor of this country become less poor, too. This is an overall reduction of poorness strategy, there's more money floating about, everyone has a job cos millions of new consumers just came online. Those consumers are still working, only this time they're getting paid for it. Paid the same as their 1st world counterparts.

So there won't be cheap shit that people only buy because they're strapped for cash, cos no one is strapped for cash anymore.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoomô
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2014, 10:24:27 pm »
Wouldn't the cheap shit just cost more, and everything the cost of everything else scales up from there?

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 10:39:53 pm »
Wouldn't the cheap shit just cost more, and everything the cost of everything else scales up from there?

Dunno. I'm back to net effect. Is this a worse thing than starving people. Or isn't there really that much of a problem with starving people in the world?
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2014, 10:44:41 pm »
Wouldn't the cheap shit just cost more, and everything the cost of everything else scales up from there?

I hear that argument every time the minimum wage is raised, and it really doesn't happen, because the velocity of money is more important than the quantity of money, and poor people spend everything they earn.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Pśs

  • James Bond-defying Shit-Volcano Trigger Device of the Next Armageddon.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 38503
  • I ain't even mad.
    • View Profile
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2014, 10:45:50 pm »
Every time I find out how fast my money is going, I can't find it anymore.

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2014, 11:33:33 pm »
Wouldn't the cheap shit just cost more, and everything the cost of everything else scales up from there?

I hear that argument every time the minimum wage is raised, and it really doesn't happen, because the velocity of money is more important than the quantity of money, and poor people spend everything they earn.

So it follows that if the poor people were earning more, there'd be more demand for all the things. More demand for all the things requires increased production, requires more people to produce it, who have more money who require more things...

Sure there will be backlogs on luxury yachts, In the meantime is everyone nourished? Is everyone medicined? Have people stopped being dead through sheer fucking ignorance and neglect?

I'm led to believe that our means of sharing out all the things (food included) is a causing a humanitarian crisis. And not just that. It's making all the comparatively well off people less well off than they could be. Doing the same stupid shit forever is not going to fix it. But no one is talking about changing this system, other than in small incremental patches that do not feed starving people.

It strikes me that the ones who stand to profit from the OP being implemented are the vast fucking majority of planet earth. All they have to do is demand it.

Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark

Reginald Ret

  • 'Miserable Atrocianthrope'
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 38806
  • Interweb Gloryhole QC Inspector #23
    • View Profile
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2014, 11:39:23 pm »
Wouldn't the cheap shit just cost more, and everything the cost of everything else scales up from there?

I hear that argument every time the minimum wage is raised, and it really doesn't happen, because the velocity of money is more important than the quantity of money, and poor people spend everything they earn.

So it follows that if the poor people were earning more, there'd be more demand for all the things. More demand for all the things requires increased production, requires more people to produce it, who have more money who require more things...

Sure there will be backlogs on luxury yachts, In the meantime is everyone nourished? Is everyone medicined? Have people stopped being dead through sheer fucking ignorance and neglect?

I'm led to believe that our means of sharing out all the things (food included) is a causing a humanitarian crisis. And not just that. It's making all the comparatively well off people less well off than they could be. Doing the same stupid shit forever is not going to fix it. But no one is talking about changing this system, other than in small incremental patches that do not feed starving people.

It strikes me that the ones who stand to profit from the OP being implemented are the vast fucking majority of planet earth. All they have to do is demand it.
You know what? You have convinced me to try this shit. The worst that could happen is the rich suffer as much as the poor suffer now. Good! Fuck em, this may lead to anarchy but as i said before: Anarchy is Justice.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2014, 11:44:34 pm »
Wouldn't the cheap shit just cost more, and everything the cost of everything else scales up from there?

I hear that argument every time the minimum wage is raised, and it really doesn't happen, because the velocity of money is more important than the quantity of money, and poor people spend everything they earn.

So it follows that if the poor people were earning more, there'd be more demand for all the things. More demand for all the things requires increased production, requires more people to produce it, who have more money who require more things...

Sure there will be backlogs on luxury yachts, In the meantime is everyone nourished? Is everyone medicined? Have people stopped being dead through sheer fucking ignorance and neglect?

I'm led to believe that our means of sharing out all the things (food included) is a causing a humanitarian crisis. And not just that. It's making all the comparatively well off people less well off than they could be. Doing the same stupid shit forever is not going to fix it. But no one is talking about changing this system, other than in small incremental patches that do not feed starving people.

It strikes me that the ones who stand to profit from the OP being implemented are the vast fucking majority of planet earth. All they have to do is demand it.
You know what? You have convinced me to try this shit. The worst that could happen is the rich suffer as much as the poor suffer now. Good! Fuck em, this may lead to anarchy but as i said before: Anarchy is Justice.

It needs turned into a meme and then turned into a movement. It needs a name. It's a fundamental shift in the way the world works. I've taken umpteen posts to convince one person on a forum that it's an idea worth exploring. This does not make it happen. It needs optimised. I'm prepared to work on this. Like IRL. I'll go door to door posting leaflets or whatever the fuck. How is this concept explained to everyone?
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 104986
    • View Profile
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2014, 12:19:43 pm »
Yeah, I'm still seeing no negative effects here. Just a couple of positive ones, I'd never thought about. The coups and political machinations are what's going to stack up in opposition to this kind of thing happening but, if it somehow managed to happen, in spite of that, who's going to be worse off? I'm hypothesising - actually doing this would seem nigh on impossible? If a method of beating these odds became obvious is it the right thing to attempt?

The only negative is that it would never happen because of the status quo opposition to it, like Paes said.

It would also cause significant political instability in the meantime, which probably wouldn't be a good thing, given the kind of tards who normally approve of political instability.

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2014, 12:49:33 pm »
Political instability, I'm all in favour of. Complete economic meltdown I'm also a large fan of, given that our current political and economic system (or conglomerate) is an unworkable clusterfuck that does more harm than good. However, politics does give us one piece of ridiculously evil technology that could serve our goals short term - programmable human opinion

If it's so fucking easy to convince the world that something as retarded as democracy/fascism/communism/capitalism is a good idea, even in the face of it failing spectacularly at every given step, surely convincing them that something that's actually a good idea is a good idea should be possible, if a little difficult to gain initial traction?

I'm pretty sure that the most informed answer to this question will be "unknown" so I might as well give it a try...

I'm a fucking idiot. My immediate goal is to convince someone smarter to help me. In lieu of someone smarter, I'll settle for someone equally dumb.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoomô
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2014, 01:20:56 pm »
So, the plan, boiled down, is printing money and giving it to the poorest subset of a society, right?

Isn't that the same as welfare with fiat currency?

So, you could call it "Welfiat".

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2014, 02:10:33 pm »
Funnily enough "welfare" is one word that's been dancing around my head in connection with this idea. It struck me that the general opinion, in this context, is that "welfare" is a bad word. This illustrates (t me at least) just how utterly fucked in the head our society is, that the welfare of our starving, malnourished fellow human beings is a bad thing. It's a hefty paradigm shift, that's for sure.

The other thing that struck me, from the Ted talk I linked in the op, is that this "Printing of money" that is required is not unprecedented. That's what the "stimulus" was all about. Only they didn't stimulate the ones who needed it, the poor and the dying. They stimulated the rich assholes who were the problem in the first place.

So I'm thinking "Welfare Stimulus"

Two missions in one phrase:

1) Convincing most of the world that ensuring the "welfare" of sick and dying people is worthwhile. Historically this has been a tough nut to crack. Most of the privileged people on earth, even the ones living in so called "poverty" in developed nations couldn't give a flying fuck about people who actually have nothing, either to own or to eat or to drink in a lot of cases. If they did there wouldn't be a problem.

2) Money isn't a real thing in limited supply and we can, in fact, just invent a whole bunch more to make up the shortfall, pretty much on the whim of the small group of people who control it. On this latter point we at least have recent precedent. Problem was the stimulus, being directed where it was, was obviously just a scam. We need to convince people that the word stimulus isn't evil but, rather a magic bullet that would have been amazing if they'd aimed it at the right target.

If we can tackle both these missions, I reckon we're well on the way to having a meme.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoomô
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 02:21:41 pm »
"Strengthening the Saftey Net"

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72167
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: LMNO (and anyone else who understands this shit)
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 02:31:41 pm »
There's also the angle of all the people who aren't in the shit (comparatively speaking)  profiting from it. That's why charity didn't work. You're asking people who, themselves, in their world, are often struggling to make ends meet, to help out. It's a hard sell.

This is almost the opposite - help the needy by ending up with more for youself
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and itís not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnít matter." -- Max Tegmark