Author Topic: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread  (Read 10540 times)

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PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« on: May 30, 2014, 03:03:08 am »
Besides it being the right thing(s) to do. How do we stop it?
1.) White Knight if you give a fuck
2.) Don't encourage, or emulate the "alpha male" persona.
3.) My rant = motorcycle I'm currently on. Is this a correct motorcycle, and is there one with better mileage?

This rant summarizes how I feel about this idiotic logic (Alpha Male)
It's been burning me on the inside for these last two months I've been called a misogynist (6-7 times) whenever disagreement occurs wasn't even on tumblr. I've never in my life been offended to slurs until now.

Rant:
"I want to get mad at the the guy who shot all those people because LOL WOMEN LOL, but I can't. I more pissed off at the fact that men are fed this bullshit logic that if you're not a alpha male (self-entitled prick) you're not a real man. Yeah I'll get right on that. I'll shave my head into a mohawk,get a tribal tattoo, drink Bud Light Lime, eat everything covered in bacon, fuck my wife even when she says no.

This is not even close to what women go through from this socially accepted standard of men. It takes a iron will to not go ape shit on every fuckhead who decides not leave you the fuck alone while shopping for groceries.

Of course the stupid alpha male logic won't go away because it's "life", or that's how "humans" are. No, it won't go away because everyone who reads this tired rant only cares about dishing out the punishment on THOSE SICK BASTARDS then actually asking themselves what stupid behavior am I encouraging every fucking day. But this tends to be the end result of every god damn incident like this in the media. "I won't do some self-reflecting because I rather feel good doing the latter (punishment freak) than do something good (not encourage that guy, or buy into this standard)".


If you think I'm full of shit. Then let me remind you this is the same stupid alpha male logic that convinces "Alpha Men" that women who love having sex, or love giving blow jobs is a threat to society, or this nation's values, or that openly gay men are somehow a threat to them when it comes to attracting mates. Yeah let the sheer stupidity sink in."
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 03:24:42 am by All father, Bearman »
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 04:07:31 am »
Besides it being the right thing(s) to do. How do we stop it?
1.) White Knight if you give a fuck
2.) Don't encourage, or emulate the "alpha male" persona.
3.) My rant = motorcycle I'm currently on. Is this a correct motorcycle, and is there one with better mileage?

This rant summarizes how I feel about this idiotic logic (Alpha Male)
It's been burning me on the inside for these last two months I've been called a misogynist (6-7 times) whenever disagreement occurs wasn't even on tumblr. I've never in my life been offended to slurs until now.

Rant:
"I want to get mad at the the guy who shot all those people because LOL WOMEN LOL, but I can't. I more pissed off at the fact that men are fed this bullshit logic that if you're not a alpha male (self-entitled prick) you're not a real man. Yeah I'll get right on that. I'll shave my head into a mohawk,get a tribal tattoo, drink Bud Light Lime, eat everything covered in bacon, fuck my wife even when she says no.

This is not even close to what women go through from this socially accepted standard of men. It takes a iron will to not go ape shit on every fuckhead who decides not leave you the fuck alone while shopping for groceries.

Of course the stupid alpha male logic won't go away because it's "life", or that's how "humans" are. No, it won't go away because everyone who reads this tired rant only cares about dishing out the punishment on THOSE SICK BASTARDS then actually asking themselves what stupid behavior am I encouraging every fucking day. But this tends to be the end result of every god damn incident like this in the media. "I won't do some self-reflecting because I rather feel good doing the latter (punishment freak) than do something good (not encourage that guy, or buy into this standard)".


If you think I'm full of shit. Then let me remind you this is the same stupid alpha male logic that convinces "Alpha Men" that women who love having sex, or love giving blow jobs is a threat to society, or this nation's values, or that openly gay men are somehow a threat to them when it comes to attracting mates. Yeah let the sheer stupidity sink in."

I have to think on this further, but as for me, it doesn't take me an iron will. It just takes me a principle.

Do I want to throttle a motherfucker now and again?

Sure.

How often does that happen? Not very, actually. You do live in Texas, so your mileage may vary. God knows I'd be climbing the walls. But if I did throttle a motherfucker, what good does it do? He thinks I'm a shitneck, and I haven't changed his mind at all. I'm still probably not going to change his mind through peaceful means. I don't know. I don't know.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 04:10:23 am »
My principle is obviously pacifism. You can't beat sense into someone, and undue physical harm for incorrect thinking is obviously wrong. Unless it is to preserve your own life, or the life of another, violence is inexcusable.

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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 04:21:30 am »
If I've understood you correctly, I think the best course of action is merciless mockery.

In other words, troll the shit out of them, but be surgical in your strikes.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2014, 07:24:16 am »
Bear, I  think your motorcycle is the correct one. It also takes a combination approach; yes, make harassment and abuse socially unacceptable, AND yes, change society so that boys aren't constantly fed the bullshit about "being real men".
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 07:35:31 am »
Bear, I  think your motorcycle is the correct one. It also takes a combination approach; yes, make harassment and abuse socially unacceptable, AND yes, change society so that boys aren't constantly fed the bullshit about "being real men".

Yeah. That 'real man' spiel. Man. I have fun stories about that, too. And the whole 'real woman' thing. That shit has got to fucking stop. I think if we would stop telling everyone from birth on up that they are doing it wrong, when they aren't, that things would get a lot less stupid really fast.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2014, 07:50:25 am »
Bear, I  think your motorcycle is the correct one. It also takes a combination approach; yes, make harassment and abuse socially unacceptable, AND yes, change society so that boys aren't constantly fed the bullshit about "being real men".

Yeah. That 'real man' spiel. Man. I have fun stories about that, too. And the whole 'real woman' thing. That shit has got to fucking stop. I think if we would stop telling everyone from birth on up that they are doing it wrong, when they aren't, that things would get a lot less stupid really fast.

Nail + head!

It's so much wider than gender issues, too. Everyone grows up on a diet of bullshit and most swallow. Is it any surprise that there are so many shitheads in the world? The real miracle is the (seemingly) growing number of non-shitheads. Long may this trend continue.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 08:48:18 am »
PUA's have picked up this idea of alpha and turned it into something toxic.  It's a weird metaphor anyway, since it is borrowed from wolves and their sexual dynamics are very different from ours but I don't think there is anything wrong with alpha people by definition, they just need to be in charge.  Someone who isn't alpha trying to act alpha, either to get laid or for other reasons, is going to act in ways that are not effective, alpha social strategies don't work for betas.  PUA's fetishize the alpha male status (and yes, an alpha male is going to have a greater chance of sex with a more desirable woman) while putting together a list of techniques that are not really related to being alpha in most cases.  I actually think they are more effective at their goal because of that, if their techniques all consisted of aping alpha male behavior they'd just be making themselves creepy.

I'm not a big fan of alphas in social situations, male or female, because they tend to need to control the conversation but I'd much rather have an alpha as a work supervisor than a beta, they are comfortable in a leadership position.  I'm also not personally romantically attracted to alpha females, they're too high maintenance for me.

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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 09:02:53 am »
Whenever I think of Alphas, I think of dogs. I think of something my gundog training buddy told me that was a surprise. I'd always gone under the assumption that all dogs wanted to be the alpha and the actual alpha was the one that managed to stay top of the heap the longest but this isn't true. Most dogs don't want to be alpha. Most dogs hate being forced to adopt an alpha role. In the absence of an alpha male, a non-alpha will step up to fill the role out of a kind of duty or obligation to the pack but that dog will fucking hate it and quickly become neurotic as fuck.

I know the metaphor is canines v's primates but some of that seems to translate in parallels.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 09:49:21 am »
Word to the wise for anyone who has never studied "alphas" in their natural habitat, i.e. in ethology classes  :wink:

This is only from Wiki but is mercifully short and to the point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_(ethology)
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 10:03:41 am »
That "Real Men" thing uses society's fear of deviants as blackmail to make people behave. The implication that such a thing as Fake Men exists is rather terrifying. I've never felt like a Real Man, and I don't think I want to.

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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 10:16:20 am »
That "Real Men" thing uses society's fear of deviants as blackmail to make people behave. The implication that such a thing as Fake Men exists is rather terrifying. I've never felt like a Real Man, and I don't think I want to.

The cure is simple then: Be more and more deviant until the average shifts and the expectations change.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 10:17:36 am »
Regularly admitting that you would rather be seen as unmanly than do X or say Y is a great way of shifting your local culture towards gender neutrality.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 02:38:35 pm »
PUA's have picked up this idea of alpha and turned it into something toxic.  It's a weird metaphor anyway, since it is borrowed from wolves and their sexual dynamics are very different from ours but I don't think there is anything wrong with alpha people by definition, they just need to be in charge.  Someone who isn't alpha trying to act alpha, either to get laid or for other reasons, is going to act in ways that are not effective, alpha social strategies don't work for betas.  PUA's fetishize the alpha male status (and yes, an alpha male is going to have a greater chance of sex with a more desirable woman) while putting together a list of techniques that are not really related to being alpha in most cases.  I actually think they are more effective at their goal because of that, if their techniques all consisted of aping alpha male behavior they'd just be making themselves creepy.

I'm not a big fan of alphas in social situations, male or female, because they tend to need to control the conversation but I'd much rather have an alpha as a work supervisor than a beta, they are comfortable in a leadership position.  I'm also not personally romantically attracted to alpha females, they're too high maintenance for me.

It's not only based on the social dynamic of wolves, it's based on an artificial and forced captive social dynamic of strange wolves forced together in confinement that doesn't occur naturally in the wild at all.

And it doesn't occur in people. I wish we could just scrub the idea of "alpha" being applied to human beings from our consciousness altogether. It's wrong, and it causes people to think of human dynamics in a wrong way.
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Re: PUA reaction/info/derailment thread
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2014, 05:09:21 pm »
I like this thread.
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