Author Topic: UK's first secret trial gets underway  (Read 1304 times)

Cain

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UK's first secret trial gets underway
« on: June 05, 2014, 08:49:23 am »
It's bad enough we're flushing 800 years of legal tradition - which has survived the Spanish Habsburgs, the Valois, Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler and Stalin - away because OMG TEH TERRERISM.

But no, we had to go one step further.  Had it not been for an extraordinary effort by the press, even reporting on this trial would've been considered a breach of "national security" - the reason given for the secret trial in the first place.

All we know is that two male defendants, AB and CD, are on trial for terrorism offences, and these offences relate to national security.  I have no doubt whatever they are charged with and the particulars of the offences is of great importance - why else go to such extraordinary effort?  But the groupthink of the intelligence services and political class is disturbing, and prone to error.  And even if it were, closed court sessions are not unheard of in the UK.

I would really like to know what is going on.

Junkenstein

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2014, 10:02:12 am »
As would I. The increase of closed court sessions over the past decade had put us quite firmly on this path so while depressing, it feels inevitable in many ways. Secret courts trying anonymous defendants based on secret evidence. Joe McCarthy would be proud.
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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 10:30:39 am »
Despite any claims to the contrary, these organisations are acting illegally and, as such, any moral claims to authority are rendered null in my view. This is not a democratic government so I'm no longer compelled to obey or respect any of it's institutions at face value. There is no such thing as guilt under this regime. It should be treated with the same respect as any other dangerous natural disaster - avoidance, mitigation and (if at all possible) destruction.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 02:09:08 pm »
Secret courts?

It's a good thing your Grandparents fought the Battle of Britain, yeah?
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Junkenstein

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2014, 02:10:10 pm »
We don't know. That information has been classified.
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The Johnny

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 02:05:48 am »
We don't know. That information has been classified.

 :lulz:

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 03:23:48 am »
We don't know. That information has been classified.

 :lulz:
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Cain

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 08:02:55 am »
Hey now, let's be fair.  Terrorists are scary.  They killed 50 people, once.  Clearly a bigger threat than Hitler.

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 08:13:57 am »
Confirming or denying that would compromise your right to privacy.
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Junkenstein

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2014, 08:19:56 am »
What I find particularly amusing is that terrorists only became really scary when they killed a bunch of people in another country an ocean away.

Seriously, the IRA got up to all kinds of shit without anyone screaming a fraction as loudly about terrorism. One beardy guy buys some fertiliser and it's off to the oubliette.
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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 08:24:54 am »
The IRA didn't direct their attacks at a hysterical, ultra-paranoid nation? Bear in mind the UK only converted to the hysterical ultra-paranoidism at the request of the US.
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Cain

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2014, 06:30:02 pm »
Bullshit, to both of those.

Ireland existed as a "frontier" of the British state, much like Malaysia or Kenya or any number of colonies inhabited by "lesser peoples".  As such, methods as arbitrary detention, secret trials, "pseduo-gangs" and arming of loyalist factions - who would then carry out the torture, kidnappings and assassinations which would make MI5 look like bad KGB knockoffs, or at the very least scabs taking work away from the CIA - were the standard operating procesure.

What's worrying, beyond the existence of such tactics in a nominally democratic liberal state, is the mainstreaming of those tactics on the mainland, something I suspect would even horrify the security services involved in the Malaysian Emergency, the Troubles etc.  "Rough" methods are accepted on the frontier, even though they shouldn't be.  But even the Serbs under Milosevich saw the danger in undermining the rule of law in core Serbian territory. 

Junkenstein

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2014, 08:45:26 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27806814

Quote
The court heard that AB and CD had been arrested "in high-profile circumstances" and faced allegations of the preparation of terrorist acts and possessing bomb-making instructions.

The court was also told that if a decision was made to hold the trial in open court, and identify the defendants, the CPS could abandon the prosecution.

Surely this stinks now. I'm trying to think of a good reason why you'd abandon prosecution if you had to do it openly. I can't think of one. Either the circumstances of their arrest, the evidence against them or something else is some kind of national security issue. Given the kind of news we get every day now, I'd strongly suspect the evidence gathering techniques to be the issue.
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Cain

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2014, 10:05:54 am »
Government embarrasment.  110% certain now.  Someone fucked up so badly they want to sweep this under a rug so the press and Parliamentary watchdogs will never hear of it.

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Re: UK's first secret trial gets underway
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2014, 10:50:38 am »
Is this not attracting a lot of attention, surely there's loads of journalists hoping to be the first spill the beans on this?

Will we ever find out what this was about?