Author Topic: Fnording political debates  (Read 1959 times)

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105003
    • View Profile
Fnording political debates
« on: June 07, 2014, 04:34:45 pm »
Fnord:

Quote
Mouthbreathing Machiavellis Dream Of A Silicon Reich
strange and ultimately doomed stunt flamboyant act of corporate kiss-assery latest political fashion California Confederacy total corporate despotism potent bitter Steve Jobs Ayn Rand Ray Kurzweil prominent divisive fixture hard-right seditionist aggressively dogmatic blogger reverent following in certain tech circles prolific incomprehensible vanguard youngish white males embittered by “political correctness” Blade Runner, but without all those Asian people cluttering up the streets like to see themselves as the heroes of another sci-fi movie “redpilled” The Matrix “genius” a troll who belches from the depths of an Internet rabbit hole frustrated poet cranky letters to alternative weekly newspapers preoccupations with domineering strongmen angry pseudonym J.R.R. Tolkien George Lucas typical keyboard kook archaic, grandiose snippets cherry-picked from obscure old lack of higher ed creds overconfident autodidact’s imitation fascist teenage Dungeon Master most toxic arguments snugly wrapped in purple prose and coded language oppressive nexus teeth-gnashing white supremacists who haunt the web “men’s rights” advocates nuts disillusioned typical smarmy, meandering

Confused?

This may explain:

Quote
Last week, some Internet magazine published the latest attempt at the genre of Did You Know Neoreaction Exists You Should Be Outraged. A couple of reactionaries wrote the usual boring “actually, nothing you said was true, why would you say false things?” responses. Nydwracu, a frequent commenter on this blog, did something I thought was much more interesting. He wrote a post called Fnords where he removed all of the filler words and transitions between ideas and thin veneer of argument until he stripped the essay down to the bare essentials.

Which is probably the single best conceptual deployment of fnords I've actually seen.

(I realise Junkenstein made reference to this elsewhere.  However, I felt putting it in its own thread and this forum would get it more attention)

Reginald Ret

  • 'Miserable Atrocianthrope'
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 38806
  • Interweb Gloryhole QC Inspector #23
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2014, 01:25:38 pm »
That is confusing at first.

We can use this technique to increase polarisation. Associating a controversial subject with a loaded symbol for that subject and repeating until a feedbackloop occurs.
Wait, can this be used to create polarisation in a neutral subject? Take proponents for each position, associate them with somethin bad and keep repeating the double connection (subject;proponent of subject;proponent's villifying factor)

On the other hand I don't think it is possible to use the reverse technique, associating someone who is respected by one side with the other side of the argument to lessen the polarisation.
Or is it? This requires experimentation.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Hoopla

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29918
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2014, 12:00:41 pm »
Wow.  This is fascinating.

Cain, do you know where we can find the original text that Nydwracu edited into the fnord form?
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105003
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 12:07:24 pm »
Yes, I do in fact.  Here it is.  Nydwracu is himself a neoreactionary (as far as I can tell), but I don't think that has any bearing on the methodology he's employing - just something to note, if you intend to read more of his blog.

Quote
We can use this technique to increase polarisation. Associating a controversial subject with a loaded symbol for that subject and repeating until a feedbackloop occurs.

I'm pretty sure political scriptwriters and journalists of the more hacktastic variety are already doing this.  IMO, it would be better to spread awareness of it than to abuse it - especially given that doing so repeatedly would probably damage your ability to reason effectively and reduce your writing to the level of a shrill political mouthpiece, devoid of nuanced and complex thinking.

Hoopla

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29918
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2014, 04:27:03 pm »
Thanks Cain!
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Reginald Ret

  • 'Miserable Atrocianthrope'
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 38806
  • Interweb Gloryhole QC Inspector #23
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 05:59:31 pm »
Yes, I do in fact.  Here it is.  Nydwracu is himself a neoreactionary (as far as I can tell), but I don't think that has any bearing on the methodology he's employing - just something to note, if you intend to read more of his blog.

Quote
We can use this technique to increase polarisation. Associating a controversial subject with a loaded symbol for that subject and repeating until a feedbackloop occurs.

I'm pretty sure political scriptwriters and journalists of the more hacktastic variety are already doing this.  IMO, it would be better to spread awareness of it than to abuse it - especially given that doing so repeatedly would probably damage your ability to reason effectively and reduce your writing to the level of a shrill political mouthpiece, devoid of nuanced and complex thinking.
That makes sense.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105003
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 06:03:54 pm »
Elizier, as usual, puts it better than I do.

UB

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 3562
    • View Profile
    • Lola Nicks
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2014, 03:45:19 pm »
It would have only been confusing several years back before reading a book on the Machiavellian Reicht. It was one I had underestimated, initially.

Within the grip of Err.... some are fucked in the head by a fist of fire.

von

  • 000
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 4214
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 05:01:58 am »
How did he actually arrive at the garbage text? Is this based on him manually parsing the text of an article and removing transitions etc, or is it the result of copypasting an article into a markov chain generator in order to make it word salad with no concise narrative?
really interesting either way...

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105003
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 09:50:44 am »
I believe it was a manual process, though certainly one could code for it and then double check.

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 114879
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 10:21:29 am »
How is the result "Garbage text"? I see little loss of content or meaning.

Probably an increase, compared to the original.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105003
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 10:38:06 am »
It's not strictly about content or meaning.  It's about using politically charged language to short-circuit critical thinking and rely on emotional responses.

von

  • 000
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 4214
    • View Profile
Re: Fnording political debates
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 07:29:21 am »
How is the result "Garbage text"? I see little loss of content or meaning.

Probably an increase, compared to the original.

Well, to my eyes, it looks like he took an already extant piece (some essay etc that had a thesis, supporting arguments, logical flow etc) and then dumped it into a markov chain type word recombinator to produce something with no logical flow, while still retaining buzzwords and statistical similarity to the original.

How can it not be "garbage" text? Its literally just buzzwords, famous names and a few prepositional phrases here and there...