Author Topic: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?  (Read 9209 times)

Chelagoras The Boulder

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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 04:04:16 am »
Pretty much yea. My logic is, that since there seems to be a gap between human and robotic bipedal movements at least for the moment, will it be simpler to just jam a bunch of cyborg electronics into the human body(which is technically a machine that already knows how to run and jump and navigate through physical environments on its own) than to slog through however many years it'll take for bipedal robots like Asimo to surpass humans physically. After all, i remember reading an article about a man in France who has already become the worlds first living cyborg (he has a robotic eye which is also a functioning camera) and is already capable of going around and conducting his own affairs, whereas most bipedal robots have trouble navigating through uncontrolled environments. Our evolution has already created a machine that can walk around and survive just about every biome on earth, why not just upgrade it instead of reinventing the wheel?

Your question is a mobius strip.

If you're asking whether robotics has biomedical applications, I believe the answer is duh.
I'm not talking about biomedical, thatd be just replacing what was lost with a robotic equivalent. I'm talking about upgrading already functional human bodies in a way that they can do all the superhuman things we want robots for, but without waiting for them to be smart enough to navigate unpredictable terrain. Pent put it pretty clearly, it'll be a long time before robots can navigate the world as quickly and gracefully as we do, so maybe cyborgs would be more immediately useful than robots, at least for a few decades.
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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2015, 05:43:39 am »
More immediately useful in which situations?

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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2015, 05:54:00 am »
I ask because the main application of bipedal robotics I'm aware of are human-impersonation (and if people will do, why augment them at all?) and as a research tool to develop the very cyborg upgrades/replacements you're talking about.

Most dirty/dangerous jobs we might like to apply robotics to seem to be performed better by nonhumanoid robots, to generalise somewhat.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 05:58:04 am by Pæs »

Chelagoras The Boulder

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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2015, 06:21:44 am »
well, i imagine combat would be pretty high up on priories, the military already has that robot skeleton thing that lets soldiers lift several times more than they normally could. That could also have many application to labor, anything that requires a lot of heavy lifting. but then there's also the benefits of upgrading the brain. For instance, they have recently confirmed that it is possible from direct human to human telepathy to happen through the right machinery:
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/direct-brain-brain-communication-used-humans
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/mind-meld-brains-cooperate-without-words

so, what if we could install some apparatus in the minds of student and  teachers that allows teachers to "give" knowledge and experiences directly? or at least, allow teachers to directly communicate information with students (i teach afterschool, trust me, getting kids to focus directly on what you are trying to convey to them is a trial) so that getting them to master the basic nut and bolts of a subject (basic grammar for example) become so much copypasta, that you can then focus more time of allowing students to start utilizing those elements (writing their own stories) Couple this with a study i read a while back that states that stimulating certain areas of the brain can directly change ones perception of second intervals. So adding to our magical thought transferrence.. thinking caps or learning chairs, or whatever we end up making them look like, an apparatus that stimulates the students brain so that time passes slower for him than it really does. then the student can spend more time learning the material then they otherwise could, allowing them to cover more ground in less time.
so picture a school day like this:
9am: the student shows up to class, plugs in, and completes 2 hours of Math lessons, and two hours of History. Only two hours has passed.
11am: "It's now lunch time. Take an hour to eat and socialize with your friends.
12pm: the student completes 2 hours of English, and two hours of a foreign language class. Only another 2 hours has passed.
2pm:"recess time!(because fuck yea recess time) Go out and play with your friends
3 pm: the student completes another 2 hour lesson, this time on science. Only one hour has passed.
4pm: school is over. the student is free to pursue extracurricular activities that can't be replicated in the learning chair (ie. playing a sports or learning an instrument)

I feel like this got off the topic of humanoid robots, but with small cyborg implants that allowed kids to directly learn from their teachers, this could revolutionize the way we pass on knowledge.
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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2015, 06:36:57 am »
Pretty much yea. My logic is, that since there seems to be a gap between human and robotic bipedal movements at least for the moment, will it be simpler to just jam a bunch of cyborg electronics into the human body(which is technically a machine that already knows how to run and jump and navigate through physical environments on its own) than to slog through however many years it'll take for bipedal robots like Asimo to surpass humans physically. After all, i remember reading an article about a man in France who has already become the worlds first living cyborg (he has a robotic eye which is also a functioning camera) and is already capable of going around and conducting his own affairs, whereas most bipedal robots have trouble navigating through uncontrolled environments. Our evolution has already created a machine that can walk around and survive just about every biome on earth, why not just upgrade it instead of reinventing the wheel?

Your question is a mobius strip.

If you're asking whether robotics has biomedical applications, I believe the answer is duh.
I'm not talking about biomedical, thatd be just replacing what was lost with a robotic equivalent. I'm talking about upgrading already functional human bodies in a way that they can do all the superhuman things we want robots for, but without waiting for them to be smart enough to navigate unpredictable terrain. Pent put it pretty clearly, it'll be a long time before robots can navigate the world as quickly and gracefully as we do, so maybe cyborgs would be more immediately useful than robots, at least for a few decades.


So, not to split hairs, but my current impression of you is that you're a fucking idiot who doesn't know what the words or basic concepts you're using mean.

First, you just wanted to know whether the fact that humans have already invested enormous amounts of money into developing sophisticated robotics might mean that humans can just bypass investing enormous amounts of money into developing sophisticated robotics. The answer is no, because already having done something completely and utterly precludes not doing it at all.

Then, you wondered whether advanced robotics and biological  organisms could be perhaps fused. But not in a biomedical way, because apparently in imaginationland there are non-biomedical ways of fusing biology and robotics. Maybe using magic.


“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Chelagoras The Boulder

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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2015, 07:00:10 am »
well, to address the first part, I was trying to argue for cyborgs as a shortcut to the level of grace and autonomy that were trying to achieve with robots like Asimo. why teach a robots to walk and run and shit when we can already do that stuff?

Admittedly I admit i think i might not understand what you mean by biomedically, which here i thought meant small stuff like pacemakers, or replacement limbs, and not augmentative things like brain to brain telepathy. If it is the proper term for what i'm trying to convey, (installing electronics directly into our meaty bits) then i'm sorry, not just for being ignorant but also for being dismissive.
 
 Also, i blame that mad scientist wet dream I posted just now mostly on that Choice of Robots game. It has sent my imagination to some very odd places lately.
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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2015, 08:24:35 am »
Is a humanoid shape the optimum way to lift things or kill things?

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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2015, 09:14:13 am »
Is a humanoid shape the optimum way to lift things or kill things?

I very much doubt it. My stake in this is purely upgrading myself, based on the existing primate/biped model. Run faster, jump higher, think better. Humanoid is merely what I'm used to, so it'd make sense to stick with that shape, at least to begin with. The best shape for a supermarket checkout operator is checkout shape. The best shape for a robot sniper is a quadcopter with a rifle. Functional robotics is about thinking outside the box. Humanoid robots is a vanity exercise
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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2015, 01:17:22 pm »
Before I get to the action adventure stuff, I would prefer to have comprehensive Life Extension first.  Repairing old tissue, reinforcing bones, regulating blood pressurepreventing/reversing dementia-- Stuff like that.  Once my extended survival is taken care of, then you can start adding the bells and whistles, like... bells and whistles.

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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2015, 02:22:49 pm »
Depends what comes first. Probably a blended approach. If I can increase my telomeres or whatever it is that biology needs to do then good and well but if they can just hack off my legs and plug some carbon fibre replacements into the stumps then my interest in athletes foot preparations will drop sharply.
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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2015, 02:46:33 pm »
Before I get to the action adventure stuff, I would prefer to have comprehensive Life Extension first.  Repairing old tissue, reinforcing bones, regulating blood pressurepreventing/reversing dementia-- Stuff like that.  Once my extended survival is taken care of, then you can start adding the bells and whistles, like... bells and whistles.

I am now picturing LMNO, the one-machine cyberband.  :aaa:
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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2015, 09:57:29 pm »
well, to address the first part, I was trying to argue for cyborgs as a shortcut to the level of grace and autonomy that were trying to achieve with robots like Asimo. why teach a robots to walk and run and shit when we can already do that stuff?

Admittedly I admit i think i might not understand what you mean by biomedically, which here i thought meant small stuff like pacemakers, or replacement limbs, and not augmentative things like brain to brain telepathy. If it is the proper term for what i'm trying to convey, (installing electronics directly into our meaty bits) then i'm sorry, not just for being ignorant but also for being dismissive.
 
 Also, i blame that mad scientist wet dream I posted just now mostly on that Choice of Robots game. It has sent my imagination to some very odd places lately.

I still can't figure out exactly what you're asking. Can you distill it into something concise and specific? "installing electronics directly into our meaty bits" is hopelessly vague. Are you talking about putting a computer "brain" inside a human body? The human brain is already much much better than any computers are and possibly better than we can ever make them. Are you talking about adding enhancements, like implanted internet connectivity? That could be neat, and will almost certainly happen.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2015, 10:01:43 pm »
well, to address the first part, I was trying to argue for cyborgs as a shortcut to the level of grace and autonomy that were trying to achieve with robots like Asimo. why teach a robots to walk and run and shit when we can already do that stuff?

Admittedly I admit i think i might not understand what you mean by biomedically, which here i thought meant small stuff like pacemakers, or replacement limbs, and not augmentative things like brain to brain telepathy. If it is the proper term for what i'm trying to convey, (installing electronics directly into our meaty bits) then i'm sorry, not just for being ignorant but also for being dismissive.
 
 Also, i blame that mad scientist wet dream I posted just now mostly on that Choice of Robots game. It has sent my imagination to some very odd places lately.

Maybe you should start by defining what you mean by "cyborg", because you seem to be using it to mean something different from "a person whose physiological functioning is aided by or dependent upon a mechanical or electronic device", which is, precisely, a biomedical application for robot or computer technology.

You SEEM to be asking whether robotic technology could possibly be interfaced with the human body. I am running out of ways to say yes.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2015, 10:03:21 pm »
Or is your question "why develop robots at all?"
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Would there be a robot rebellion inside a robot rebellion?
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2015, 11:08:17 pm »
well, to address the first part, I was trying to argue for cyborgs as a shortcut to the level of grace and autonomy that were trying to achieve with robots like Asimo. why teach a robots to walk and run and shit when we can already do that stuff?

Admittedly I admit i think i might not understand what you mean by biomedically, which here i thought meant small stuff like pacemakers, or replacement limbs, and not augmentative things like brain to brain telepathy. If it is the proper term for what i'm trying to convey, (installing electronics directly into our meaty bits) then i'm sorry, not just for being ignorant but also for being dismissive.
 
 Also, i blame that mad scientist wet dream I posted just now mostly on that Choice of Robots game. It has sent my imagination to some very odd places lately.

I still can't figure out exactly what you're asking. Can you distill it into something concise and specific? "installing electronics directly into our meaty bits" is hopelessly vague. Are you talking about putting a computer "brain" inside a human body? The human brain is already much much better than any computers are and possibly better than we can ever make them. Are you talking about adding enhancements, like implanted internet connectivity? That could be neat, and will almost certainly happen.

Depends on the application. The human brain is fucking terrible at processing straightforward numerical and logical calculations to any measurable degree of accuracy. So much so that the number of these operations it can deal with in one second averages out to less than one, whereas machine speed is fast approaching trillions on a bog standard chip. Memory and recall have already been enhanced beyond recognition by machines.
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