Author Topic: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?  (Read 3496 times)

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87071
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« on: September 24, 2015, 04:50:32 pm »
I mean, it ain't a mistake. It took intricate and complex coding to pull it off, and an engineer wouldn't have done it proactively, because it's obviously and objectively designed to break the law.

So, you'd have to have a LOT of people involved, with fairly extensive knowledge of what was going on. But this wasn't exposed because someone talked; it was discovered by an independent investigation. Which means everyone had to keep their fucking mouths shut, which approaches the inconceivable, if the old adage that anything involving more than five people becomes unstable is true.

I dunno, the fact they almost got away with it fascinates me.


Don Coyote

  • Token Welshman
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 136040
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2015, 04:59:18 pm »
I'm going to go with "yes." It seems to me that using "conspire" as the word for the collective actions would be very appropriate.

Also, fuck them. I had been eyeballing a TDI A3 for years.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2015, 05:03:08 pm »
I mean, it ain't a mistake. It took intricate and complex coding to pull it off, and an engineer wouldn't have done it proactively, because it's obviously and objectively designed to break the law.

So, you'd have to have a LOT of people involved, with fairly extensive knowledge of what was going on. But this wasn't exposed because someone talked; it was discovered by an independent investigation. Which means everyone had to keep their fucking mouths shut, which approaches the inconceivable, if the old adage that anything involving more than five people becomes unstable is true.

I dunno, the fact they almost got away with it fascinates me.

What are you talking about?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Don Coyote

  • Token Welshman
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 136040
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2015, 05:11:17 pm »
The VW emissions scandal.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/22/analysis-deception-fuels-volkswagen-emissions-scandal/72608782/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/volkswagen-ceo-resigns-after-emissions-cheating-scandal-spreads/2015/09/23/6b09e540-6203-11e5-8e9e-dce8a2a2a679_story.html

In short, VW had their "clean diesel" engines running software that when undergoing an emissions test would enter clean engine mode to pass the test but otherwise put out something like 40x the allowed nitrogen oxide.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 pm »
The VW emissions scandal.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/22/analysis-deception-fuels-volkswagen-emissions-scandal/72608782/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/volkswagen-ceo-resigns-after-emissions-cheating-scandal-spreads/2015/09/23/6b09e540-6203-11e5-8e9e-dce8a2a2a679_story.html

In short, VW had their "clean diesel" engines running software that when undergoing an emissions test would enter clean engine mode to pass the test but otherwise put out something like 40x the allowed nitrogen oxide.

Yeah, that's definitely a criminal conspiracy.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2015, 05:38:07 pm »
Holy shit, that's pretty intense. I can't help wondering why they would run a risk so great. I mean, what was that cost/benefit conversation like? "So if we do this it could ruin the company, but we might be able to get away with it"?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2015, 05:38:55 pm »
Next question being, are other companies doing the same, or similarly nefarious, things?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87071
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 06:07:58 pm »
It would be absolutely stunning if other companies were doing it, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

It's been floated that they thought they could get away with it because the software that does this is considered intellectual property, and therefore secret (the source code is not available).  This was only discovered because someone did a real world test.

Da6s

  • Hilldog
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 13107
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 08:50:27 pm »
I'm waiting to see the impact this has on their new-ish plant in Chattanooga, that's brought about a lot of jobs to an area that sorely needed it.
We appear to be doomed by our DNA to repeat the same destructive behaviors our forebears have repeated for millenia. If anything our problem solving skills have actually diminished with the advent of technology & our ubiquitous modern conveniences. & yet despite our predisposition towards fear-driven hostility; towards what we anachronistically term primitive behavior another instinct is just as firmly encoded in our make-up. We are capable as our ancestors were of incredible breathtaking acts of kindness. Every hour of every day a man risks his life at a moments notice to save another. Forget for a moment the belligerent benevolent billionaires who grant the unfortunate a crumb of costfree cake. I speak of pure acts of selflessness. A Mother who rushes into the street to save a child from a speeding vehicle. A person who runs into a burning building to reach a family trapped on the upper story. Such actions,such moments,such unconscious selfless decisions,define what it is to be human

The Wizard Joseph

  • Tryna transcend duality or whatever
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 47228
  • Product of Wisconsin
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 10:26:59 pm »
Heard about this on NPR today. The CEO is stepping down and "taking responsibility" but not taking the blame as a conspirator. I thought I heard something like $18bn in potential fines spanning several nations and empowered international NGOs.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87071
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2015, 10:52:46 pm »
Plus, massive recalls and heavily gouging resale value.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2015, 12:45:46 am »
The Germans are gonna have their arses for breakfast if any of these got sold in Germany.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105003
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2015, 02:03:37 am »
I saw some rough estimates of how many people would have to be involved, at minimum, for this to work.

It makes the CIA look like amateurs.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2015, 02:06:00 am »
I saw some rough estimates of how many people would have to be involved, at minimum, for this to work.

It makes the CIA look like amateurs.

Well, the main thing would be keeping the programmers' mouths shut. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87071
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Does the VW fiasco qualify as a conspiracy?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2015, 02:31:13 am »
I saw some rough estimates of how many people would have to be involved, at minimum, for this to work.

It makes the CIA look like amateurs.

Thanks to you, that's one of the first things that crossed my mind. How did they do it? Engineers aren't usually known for their allegiance to the corporate hierarchy.