Author Topic: Mansplaining: Why?  (Read 8019 times)

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #105 on: March 23, 2016, 03:02:01 am »
I looked up who Gail Simone is, and then I :lulz:
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2016, 09:26:02 am »
Quote
is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject

This is definitely a thing. I'd wrongly assumed it was fucking hilarious so I stand corrected on that point. I also wasn't aware it was only men who did this to women so it's good we now have a descriptive name for the phenomenon to clear that up.
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #107 on: March 23, 2016, 10:40:42 am »
The critical element of mansplaining (the reason the tongue-in-cheek name stuck is because every woman has experienced it and it's so hilariously dead-on, if you've ever been on the receiving end) is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject even when it can reasonably be assumed that they know quite a bit; sort of like my friend explaining my cameras to me. MY cameras. Which I own, and use.

My favorite recent example, brought to my attention by the illustrious Alty, was a guy in line to see Deadpool explaining Deadpool's history to Gail Simone as she was also in line to see the movie. Because she is a lady, and this guy assumes that a lady in line to see Deadpool must not know anything about the character because that makes perfect sense. :?

Alty had to explain who Gail Simone was, because I am not a comics person, and then I LOLed and LOLed.

So an important element that I would love to get at is not only where the urge to share your knowledge comes from, but also from whence arises the assumption that the person on the receiving end, usually a woman, has no knowledge themselves.

Oh my god. Deadpool in his current portrayal wouldn't even exist without Gail, before that he had an underlying tone of dark comedy, but she's the one who actually made him funny. What a tool.

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2016, 12:30:46 pm »
The critical element of mansplaining (the reason the tongue-in-cheek name stuck is because every woman has experienced it and it's so hilariously dead-on, if you've ever been on the receiving end) is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject even when it can reasonably be assumed that they know quite a bit; sort of like my friend explaining my cameras to me. MY cameras. Which I own, and use.

My favorite recent example, brought to my attention by the illustrious Alty, was a guy in line to see Deadpool explaining Deadpool's history to Gail Simone as she was also in line to see the movie. Because she is a lady, and this guy assumes that a lady in line to see Deadpool must not know anything about the character because that makes perfect sense. :?

Alty had to explain who Gail Simone was, because I am not a comics person, and then I LOLed and LOLed.

So an important element that I would love to get at is not only where the urge to share your knowledge comes from, but also from whence arises the assumption that the person on the receiving end, usually a woman, has no knowledge themselves.

Oh my god. Deadpool in his current portrayal wouldn't even exist without Gail, before that he had an underlying tone of dark comedy, but she's the one who actually made him funny. What a tool.

Here's a quote from Gail that sheds a bit more light than heat on the subject. She doesn't think the guy is a tool, just an over excited fan who wanted to burble about his hero, who he was waiting to see in a Movie.
Quote
ABOUT THE DEADPOOL THEATER INCIDENT

Okay, I’m re-posting this because it’s going to get buried in the actual massive thread of reblogs, which is up to 70k.
Here’s what happened. I mentioned that while I was in line to get tickets and popcorn at my local teeny town theater, the guy next to me started explaining who Deadpool was, because he just assumed I wouldn’t know.

 http://archive.is/y7WQU


I must admit I had to look Gail Simone up too. I don't really do comics but my partner insisted that we went to see Deadpool. If someone had buttonholed me then I wouldn't have known a thing, if they'd buttonholed my partner and gushed at her she would just have said "I know" and fan-squeed back at him about the movie. I guess that wasn't really an option open to Gail. I am also not totally convinced by her position, but you know she was actually there and she wrote the original tweet 'cos she thought the gutys behaviour was "cute" so I guess we should accept her opinion on this

I was struck by the sheer volume of hits I got from googling "gail simone & mansplaining" and the fact that they dated back over nearly a decade and since the Deadpool one isn't as clear cut as it originally seemed to be I thought this one was an interesting example:-
Quote
Matt Damon Interrupts Successful Black Woman Filmmaker to Explain Diversity to Her/quote]

And the black filmaker on the receiving end of this?
 "Effie Brown, an experienced Hollywood producer and a black woman. She has produced seventeen feature films, including Dear White People" - you couldn't make it up.
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2016, 02:21:58 pm »
Ahh thats interesting. Funny that; I automatically assume the guy is dopey for explaining the character to her, without even thinking to check what Gail said on that.
And also that my reaction, echo'd across the internet often in much meaner ways.... from the sounds of things the poor guys gotten a lot of abuse when all he was doing was the goony gushing over a character he was passionate about.

Yeah, not surprised that you find a lot for her on google for over the years, she's been active in discussions on gender roles in comics for a long time, if I recall correctly she was the person who coined the term Women in Refrigerators concept for the victimisation of women in comics a story prop used for dramatic purpose of a male characters storyline, wife,girlfriend killed, kidnapped/depowered etc. It was good cause it kind of helped mitigate a very dull story cliché

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #110 on: March 23, 2016, 08:31:20 pm »
The critical element of mansplaining (the reason the tongue-in-cheek name stuck is because every woman has experienced it and it's so hilariously dead-on, if you've ever been on the receiving end) is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject even when it can reasonably be assumed that they know quite a bit; sort of like my friend explaining my cameras to me. MY cameras. Which I own, and use.

My favorite recent example, brought to my attention by the illustrious Alty, was a guy in line to see Deadpool explaining Deadpool's history to Gail Simone as she was also in line to see the movie. Because she is a lady, and this guy assumes that a lady in line to see Deadpool must not know anything about the character because that makes perfect sense. :?

Alty had to explain who Gail Simone was, because I am not a comics person, and then I LOLed and LOLed.

So an important element that I would love to get at is not only where the urge to share your knowledge comes from, but also from whence arises the assumption that the person on the receiving end, usually a woman, has no knowledge themselves.

Oh my god. Deadpool in his current portrayal wouldn't even exist without Gail, before that he had an underlying tone of dark comedy, but she's the one who actually made him funny. What a tool.

Here's a quote from Gail that sheds a bit more light than heat on the subject. She doesn't think the guy is a tool, just an over excited fan who wanted to burble about his hero, who he was waiting to see in a Movie.
Quote
ABOUT THE DEADPOOL THEATER INCIDENT

Okay, I’m re-posting this because it’s going to get buried in the actual massive thread of reblogs, which is up to 70k.
Here’s what happened. I mentioned that while I was in line to get tickets and popcorn at my local teeny town theater, the guy next to me started explaining who Deadpool was, because he just assumed I wouldn’t know.

 http://archive.is/y7WQU


I know, I read all of that. The fact that she doesn't think he was being a tool doesn't negate the fact that it was absolutely classic mansplaining; telling a woman in line at a movie about the main character in the movie, assuming she simply doesn't know without asking. It doesn't make the guy a tool, it just means that he was mansplaining. The fact that it was Gail Simone just adds to the hilarity.


Quote
I must admit I had to look Gail Simone up too. I don't really do comics but my partner insisted that we went to see Deadpool. If someone had buttonholed me then I wouldn't have known a thing, if they'd buttonholed my partner and gushed at her she would just have said "I know" and fan-squeed back at him about the movie. I guess that wasn't really an option open to Gail. I am also not totally convinced by her position, but you know she was actually there and she wrote the original tweet 'cos she thought the gutys behaviour was "cute" so I guess we should accept her opinion on this

I was struck by the sheer volume of hits I got from googling "gail simone & mansplaining" and the fact that they dated back over nearly a decade and since the Deadpool one isn't as clear cut as it originally seemed to be I thought this one was an interesting example:-
Quote
Matt Damon Interrupts Successful Black Woman Filmmaker to Explain Diversity to Her

And the black filmaker on the receiving end of this?
 "Effie Brown, an experienced Hollywood producer and a black woman. She has produced seventeen feature films, including Dear White People" - you couldn't make it up.

Now that guy just might be a tool... but then again, mansplaining alone does not a tool make. Does being socially conditioned to explain things to women as if they are clueless make the individual a tool? I don't think so, personally.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 08:33:32 pm by Mesozoic Mister Nigel »
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #111 on: March 24, 2016, 12:18:27 pm »
Yeah, mansplaining on own doesn't make someone a tool. And this guy didn't have any ill intentions. Regardless of that though, regardless even of gender, going up to the writer who worked on something for years to give them the basics is like something out of a cringe comedy.

"So you see Mr King, the secret to selling a decent quantity of books is as follows...."

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #112 on: March 26, 2016, 12:53:25 am »
Yeah, mansplaining on own doesn't make someone a tool. And this guy didn't have any ill intentions. Regardless of that though, regardless even of gender, going up to the writer who worked on something for years to give them the basics is like something out of a cringe comedy.

"So you see Mr King, the secret to selling a decent quantity of books is as follows...."

Yeah, pretty much that exactly.  :lulz: It kinda makes you laugh, and also kinda makes you feel incredibly sorry for the guy because ouch.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2016, 04:59:26 am »
Quote
is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject

This is definitely a thing. I'd wrongly assumed it was fucking hilarious so I stand corrected on that point. I also wasn't aware it was only men who did this to women so it's good we now have a descriptive name for the phenomenon to clear that up.

I am fairly certain that at no point did anyone say that only men do this to women.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #114 on: March 26, 2016, 07:39:33 am »
Maybe it was the name. Not totally convinced attaching a gender prefix is helpful in this instance. "assplaining" might have worked better
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #115 on: March 26, 2016, 04:48:22 pm »
Maybe it was the name. Not totally convinced attaching a gender prefix is helpful in this instance. "assplaining" might have worked better

As I said, it was a humorous name that stuck because it's such a pervasively common phenomenon experienced by women from men.

Do you really need to #notallmen this one?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #116 on: March 26, 2016, 05:46:10 pm »
The critical element of mansplaining (the reason the tongue-in-cheek name stuck is because every woman has experienced it and it's so hilariously dead-on, if you've ever been on the receiving end) is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject even when it can reasonably be assumed that they know quite a bit; sort of like my friend explaining my cameras to me. MY cameras. Which I own, and use.

My favorite recent example, brought to my attention by the illustrious Alty, was a guy in line to see Deadpool explaining Deadpool's history to Gail Simone as she was also in line to see the movie. Because she is a lady, and this guy assumes that a lady in line to see Deadpool must not know anything about the character because that makes perfect sense. :?

Alty had to explain who Gail Simone was, because I am not a comics person, and then I LOLed and LOLed.

So an important element that I would love to get at is not only where the urge to share your knowledge comes from, but also from whence arises the assumption that the person on the receiving end, usually a woman, has no knowledge themselves.

Ehh, I catch myself doing this on occasion and state, out loud, that I'm doing it and will stop now. Or, I preface a statement with "I assume, because you are a [Insert name of specialization], then you probably understand [Insert background topic related to point]. *Wait for general confirmation gesture or statement* Well, [Insert personal perspective of topic]."

I also try to use generalized, suggestive language to prompt people to show whether or not they are knowledgeable on a subject. If they don't respond, I assume they know little. If they do respond and give a general perspective in return, then I can assume they know a somewhat decent amount.

Problem is, this method falls victim to the SGitRs who will attempt to give generalized perspectives in return regardless of their knowledge. And they won't admit to not knowing much about the subject. As has been mentioned before, they are a lost cause, so I just play pretend like you would a child.

Also, SGitRs are generally easy to spot before a conversation gets this far anyways.
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #117 on: July 11, 2016, 03:48:53 pm »
Thank you for this thread.

My girlfriend and I were unaware of the term "mansplaining" but after reading this thread it is exactly what she means when she tells me "you're doing that condescending thing you do again".

We used to fight over this, because she felt belittled as though I assume she knows nothing about anything, and I felt defensive because from my point of view I thought I was trying to be helpful, useful, and knowledgeable, and I couldn't seem to understand in what way I was being condescending.  So, with the godlike patience she possesses towards me, she continued to point it out each time I started doing it to her or our friends (I was not selective about target, male, female, I mansplain to EVERYONE) and slowly I have come to accept that I am, in fact, a condescending jackass way more than I ever realized.  Now is where I get defensive and point out that quite a lot of the conversations I have with people are in the context of explaining why their computer or electronic device doesn't work and how to fix it, but the fact of the matter is that I simply fail to give thought to whether or not the person I am speaking to might already know what I'm explaining, and I then proceed to explain as though they had no idea.

We've been working on it for awhile now but I still do this constantly.  I think part of the problem is I still get defensive sometimes when my girlfriend points it out, as though my knowledge and usefulness were being rejected even though I know that's not actually the case.  I think this has caused her to only point it out when it's especially irritating to her, which means a lot of my condescending jackassery goes unchecked.

It is REALLY hard for someone like me to realize when I am mansplaining.  I constantly battle a large, deeply ingrained case of SGiTR in myself, and I think it contributes to my ignorance towards my mansplaining.  It's actually very rare I catch myself at it rather than my gf pointing it out to me.  I've learned to simply shut up when she plays League of Legends, for example, because I cannot seem to resist giving her tips on playing or warning her of what the character against her is capable of, despite the fact that she is much better than me at that game.

Which also makes it more difficult in that context... I've been playing League of Legends for years, and played heavily the Warcraft 3 mod it came from (DotA), yet in the three months she's been playing LoL, my gf is far better than me at it.  I can handle that, but it does make me more apt to try to mansplain to her in that context, as I taught her how to play and am both proud of how good she's gotten and humbled at how much better than me she already is.

Well, pain is learning.  Hopefully she will keep beating me with the stick and I will grow and learn.  This problem of mine I don't think I can tackle without someone verbally whacking me when I start doing it.

Anyway just my take on the OP.  Thanks for this thread, I will show my gf when she gets home, hopefully she will enjoy having a fresh term to address it directly, rather than  "you went into condescending jackass mode again".
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2016, 01:25:45 am »
Glad to hear this was useful for you!
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”