Author Topic: Politically Correct  (Read 5148 times)

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Politically Correct
« on: February 14, 2016, 03:19:36 pm »
I saw this cartoon the other day that did a pretty accurate job of summing up my feelings about "Political Correctness".


And then I read this blog, which elaborates further: http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2015/10/14/politically-correct/
Quote
“Warning — I’m going to say some things here that aren’t politically correct.”

Or, “Oh, I’d better be careful, I might upset the PC police.”

Or, in response to a complaint about bigotry and discrimination and dehumanization, “They’re just being politically correct, I’m so sick of all that PC nonsense.”

I hear this a lot. I hear it from writers, speakers, politicians, commentators, comedians. And I don’t just hear it from overtly douchey asshats. I also hear it from people who are generally smart, thoughtful, decent, and clearly wanting to do good.

I hear this a lot. And whenever I hear it, it’s like a red flag. It’s like a red flag attached to sirens and klaxons and flashing red lights. It’s like a guy on the side of the road jumping around with a giant sign — a sign that says, “This person is about to say something incredibly screwed-up.”

When you use the phrase “politically correct,” here’s what you’re saying.

You’re saying, “I want to be able to say things that are damaging — and I don’t want to be held accountable for it.”

You’re saying, “I don’t want to have to think very carefully about the things that I’m saying. I want to say whatever pops into my head — and I don’t want to think about whether it’s unfair, inaccurate, bigoted, or otherwise harmful.”

You’re saying, “I want to say whatever pops into my head — and I don’t want to think about whether it perpetuates harmful tropes or stereotypes.”

You’re saying, “In particular, I want to say whatever pops into my head about people who’ve gotten the short end of the stick for centuries — and I don’t want to think about whether the things I say are bashing them with that stick one more goddamn time.”

You’re saying, “When people speak up about bigotry and discrimination and dehumanization, I don’t want to have to think about the actual content of what they’re saying.”

You’re saying, “When people speak up about bigotry and discrimination and dehumanization, I’m not going to engage with the content of what they’re saying — I’m just going to dismiss it wholesale.”

You’re saying, “When people speak up about bigotry and discrimination and dehumanization, I’m not only going to dismiss what they’re saying — I’m going to trivialize the very idea of them speaking about it and asking people to change.”

Alty and I were talking about this the other day; those who demonize "political correctness" are essentially dinosaurs who are angry that their day of glory has passed. They don't want to have to THINK before they speak, and they resent being made to feel bad because they want to call people retarded as an insult. I get it; I grew up in the 80's. Some shitty habits are hard to break, but that doesn't mean they aren't shitty.

The thing is, these people are basically already dead, they just don't realize it. They are clinging with the last of their strength to a time past when they didn't have to think about how their own privilege colors their perception, or why they can't make decisions for everyone. They are intellectually stultified, and can't grasp the idea that other people have other perspectives which can be different from theirs without being inherently wrong. Because they can't comprehend that simple concept, they find any differing perspective a direct attack on themselves. The consider being told that they can't be the decider for other people's lives as offensive as being told that they can't be the decider for their own lives. It makes them feel... irrelevant.

Because they are.

Its too late for them. Their time has passed, and they are simply digging in their heels and trying to screech us back into the 20th century, when women were chicks, blacks were grateful, and retards were retards. Almost all of their objections to what they hatefully label political correctness are just different ways of saying "I DON'T WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW". "I DON'T WANT TO SEE OTHER PERSPECTIVES". "I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND".

They are already dead, because living things can change.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Vanadium Gryllz

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 03:39:01 pm »
Great post Nigel. This is something that I see a lot, particularly at work. Which is a very old, white male dominated environment.

I think that the blog you quoted hit on an interesting point that I hadn't considered before:

"I want to say whatever pops into my head..."

I think that everyone, to varying extents, believes that the thoughts they have are right/true/good because, well they're having them and they're good people right?

Having to confront the idea that your thoughts are not necessarily right/true/good is a difficult process.


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Vanadium Gryllz

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 03:42:15 pm »
Discordianism and/or philosophies that encourage the differentiation of one and one's thoughts seem to encourage this kind of self-scrutiny. It's something that attracted me to Discordianism in the first place. Recently I have been reading into Buddhist philosophies that riff on the same idea. I guess that's where Mal & Omar got a lot of their ideas from in the first place - Zen for roundeyes, after all.
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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 05:30:32 pm »
Political correctness is shallow. It treats how you talk to people as being as important as how you treat them. It says "never mind poverty and corruption in the justice system, the most important issue affecting black people is that people are being 'impolite' to them", where 'impolite' is defined as not using whatever artificially constructed term is in vogue at the time (I think currently it's begininning to shift from "african american" to "people of color", which is of course not under any circumstances to be confused with the term "colored people", which is offensive -  despite being part of the name of the NAACP)

(And if that's not the kind of thing you mean when you say "political correctness" then you're using the wrong word. That's what the term "political correctness" is generally taken to mean.)

retards were retards.
"retard" actually started out as a politically correct term you know. Long story short it was introduced because the term "imbecile" had become pejorative (which puts "retard" ahead of "african american", "asian american" and "little person" in terms of legitimacy of origin I have never in my life heard or heard of the words "black" [as it pertains to skin color], "oriental", or "midget" used as pejorative terms. They've appeared as discriptive terms in larger rants, but never as insults in their own right, unlike the terms "imbecile" and "idiot")

EDIT;
And yes, I am aware that by the reasoning above replacing the word "retard" is legitimate too. I'll agree to that.  Not that it will matter, as whichever of the terms devised to replace it eventually sticks will probably eventually become an insult too, if history is any guide.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 05:59:21 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 06:05:25 pm »
The real problem, as I see it, is that we don't have any really biting slur for white people. "Honky" just doesn't cut it and "Cracker" and "WASP" only apply to subsets. If there was a good generic slur for white people that would restore the balance of the language much more smoothly and flowingly than political correctness.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 07:29:15 pm »
Great post Nigel. This is something that I see a lot, particularly at work. Which is a very old, white male dominated environment.

I think that the blog you quoted hit on an interesting point that I hadn't considered before:

"I want to say whatever pops into my head..."

I think that everyone, to varying extents, believes that the thoughts they have are right/true/good because, well they're having them and they're good people right?

Having to confront the idea that your thoughts are not necessarily right/true/good is a difficult process.

That's a good point I hadn't considered, simply because I think horrible badwrong thoughts all the time and I'm constantly afraid that one will leak out before I catch it.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 07:31:37 pm »
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Vanadium Gryllz

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 07:38:21 pm »

That's a good point I hadn't considered, simply because I think horrible badwrong thoughts all the time and I'm constantly afraid that one will leak out before I catch it.

 :lulz:
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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 08:08:23 pm »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 02:11:37 am »
For Shandor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness
I've read that article before. What of it?

Never mind, I don't know what I was thinking. You're basically a case study for what I was talking about. Carry on.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 02:53:01 am »
I think you're seeing false dichotomies.

Suppose it's December and I'm looking to buy a TV. The greeter at Store A tells everyone "Merry Christmas", the greeter at Store B tells everyone "Happy Holidays". If you think from what I've said before that I'm going to go to Store A you're wrong. In fact I'm not going to either of them, because there's more that 2 electronics stores in the world, so I'm going to go to Store C, where the greeter tells me to "Go to Hell" and mocks me for being overweight (fun fact: I weigh more than Homer Simpson) but they sell my TV slightly cheaper.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 03:02:31 am by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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Q. G. Pennyworth

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2016, 03:03:36 am »
For a while I ascribed to the "people shouldn't be politically correct because it's a shallow way of masking their prejudices while continuing to be assholes who don't give a fuck" theory, but then I met someone who was really racist and it took me months to realize he wasn't just being an edgelord. It's kinda like the romantic anarchists who want to believe that coercing people into not murdering each other with government force is shitty because we should just not murder each other. Sweet in principle, and I would rather spend my time with voluntary non-murderers than involuntary ones, but at the same time murder is way worse than stopping people from murder.
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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2016, 03:13:24 am »
and can't grasp the idea that other people have other perspectives which can be different from theirs without being inherently wrong.

All perspectives are inherently wrong. Even my own is merely a persistent delusion.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 03:25:08 am »
I dunno.  I think forcing people not to say shitty things is worse than saying shitty things.  Political correctness is not forcing anything though, it's social pressure.  Disapproving of people saying shitty things, and judging them for it is not a bad thing at all, except for people who say shitty things.

PC is a bandaid, and it can hide a lot of foulness, but it is still a far better default than open bigotry.

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Re: Politically Correct
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2016, 06:49:41 am »
The real problem, as I see it, is that we don't have any really biting slur for white people. "Honky" just doesn't cut it and "Cracker" and "WASP" only apply to subsets. If there was a good generic slur for white people that would restore the balance of the language much more smoothly and flowingly than political correctness.

Why try to add more hate speech into the world? Also, I don't think there's any slur that would sting white people on their own turf. In a country where white people are the minority words that would seem innocuous in America/Europe could start to have a bit of bite to them. I mean, fuck that noise wherever you are, but adding to it doesn't help.

Its too late for them. Their time has passed, and they are simply digging in their heels and trying to screech us back into the 20th century, when women were chicks, blacks were grateful, and retards were retards.

Who do you mean by retards?
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