Author Topic: Orlando shooting thread  (Read 2862 times)

Q. G. Pennyworth

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Re: Orlando shooting thread
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2016, 07:24:14 pm »
So,I haven't read too much because brainweasels, but it looks like the shooter may have been a regular? And his dad is super homophobic in super public ways. What are the odds on this being a twisted self-hatey thing?

It's a possibility that's currently being aired.  I believe there were also gay dating apps on his phone.

On the other hand, if I hated homosexuals sufficiently enough to shoot up a nightclub, I would also be carrying out reconaissance and dry runs.  Such things would include going to said nightclub more than a few times (and smuggling in the weapon with me), and likely involve online research to select the best target for my attack.

It's also worth mentioning he was an armed security guard for G4S.  Now G4S are pretty much a joke as far as I am concerned, regarding corporate security, but I do think it means we should consider the possibility that his pre-attack phase may have been a little more sophisticated than normal.  Especially as he was on the FBI's radar - he had been questioned twice regarding links to ISIS, or ISIS members, even though those links could not be made (again, suggesting his closing statements may have been some form of "fuck you" to the FBI).

I have to admit, I also have a level of discomfort with how quickly the media has latched onto the possibility he was a self-loathing gay man.  Just as they previously latched onto the idea that he was an ISIS operative.  I think it's rather telling that the media have been so eager to Other Omar Mateen, first attempting to play off one form of minority rights against another (LGBT+ Unity...so long as they use the right bathrooms) and now with the unsettling implication that this is somehow the gay community's problem.  I know you're not saying that, QG, I really wouldn't believe anyone here would.  But it is an undercurrent to the idea that Mateen is a self-loathing homosexual that the media is right now suggesting, and people will pick up on that subtext.

It's weird, because to me it wasn't "othering," it was bringing him in. You're one of us, you just got fucked in the head and maybe we can figure out how to prevent future people from getting the fucks the same way. It's that blackboxing impulse, "If we just figure out what went wrong..." but you can't always figure out what went wrong and even if you do there's no guarantee it's something you can fix and planes still fall out of the sky sometimes no matter how much we try to stop it from happening. My critical thinking's off though.
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Cain

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Re: Orlando shooting thread
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2016, 03:07:31 am »
I hope your reading is the correct one, it's definitely a more optimistic way of approaching it.

I've just about given up hope of the media ever covering terrorism in a responsible way, at this moment in time.

(if anyone else wants the dissertation link, just send me a PM)

Cain

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Re: Orlando shooting thread
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2016, 04:40:38 pm »
So...

Quote
Since the shooting at an Orlando nightclub last week that left 49 people dead, reports have emerged that gunman Omar Mateen frequented the gay club, used gay dating apps and had gay lovers.

But the FBI has found no evidence so far to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said. 

Mateen, 29, told police negotiators he had carried out the shooting that began at 2 a.m. June 12 and ended, after a three-hour standoff, when he was killed by police.

He claimed the shooting was carried out in allegiance to the militant group Islamic State, as a message to halt U.S. bombing in Iraq and Syria.

Several Pulse regulars have come forward in the days since the shooting, claiming to have seen Mateen at the club or to have been contacted by him on the gay dating apps Grindr, Jack’d and Adam4Adam.

On Tuesday, Univision aired a report in which “Miguel,” a man wearing a disguise to conceal his identity, alleged he had sex with Mateen after meeting him on the gay dating app, Grindr. He said Mateen had sex with other men too, including a threesome with a Puerto Rican who allegedly told Mateen, after having had unprotected sex with him, that he was HIV positive.

But investigators do not consider the man’s account credible, according to one senior law enforcement official with access to the investigation.

In seeking to verify the reports, federal agents have culled Mateen's electronic devices, including a laptop computer and cellphone, as well as electronic communications of those who made the claims, law enforcement officials said.

So far, they have found no photographs, no text messages, no smartphone apps, no gay pornography and no cell-tower location data to suggest that Mateen — who was twice married to women and had a young son — conducted a secret gay life, the officials said.

The FBI is continuing to explore Mateen’s past, but investigators now believe the men who made the claims are not credible, or confused Mateen with someone else.

The FBI has not said whether it has uncovered any evidence that Mateen visited the Pulse nightclub prior to the shooting.

But law enforcement sources did say that investigators have not uncovered any direct links between Mateen and members of Islamic State.

Da6s

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Re: Orlando shooting thread
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2016, 06:56:43 pm »
I came to peedee after it, but I have close family in Orlando. Specifically, my dad's cousin but more like an uncle figure. He's not in the closet, but no one in my closed minded tennessee family are aware of his lifestyle.

I lived with him for 2 summers from 16 - 17. He got me a job at disney, working in concessions at blizzard beach (mini donut stand across from beach haus for those of you that have been.) This was in 2002 & 2003. Prior to the first summer, he came out to me. I'm apparently the only one he's ever come out to. His method is "if anyone asks ill tell them the truth", but being a southern family, no one has the gall to ask him directly and it's don't ask don't tell. I endearingly refer to him as my guncle, or gay uncle. He's awesome.

Over those summers he was a member of a gay bowling league. Took me to said league every tuesday. Made some lifelong friends through that, all older than me. Still text a few of them a few times a year.

Guncle's type are latinos. Specifically, barely legal latino boys. He likes em young and bronze. I'm not one that ever has anxiety about anything, but the morning of I was freaking out when I found out the details of it. Luckily, my old curmudgeon guncle was home in bed & was shocked the next morning.

One of my friends from the bowling league had a close friend that didn't make it out. One of guncle's friends & his partner were there. The partner didn't make it out. His friend was hit, but had no idea until about 40 minutes afterwards - he was bleeding profusely and thought it was all someone else's blood.

Guncle lives a few blocks over from orange avenue. Have another friend there whom I met in college via WoW - he was a guildie. Have drank and hung out with him multiple times in the 407. He heard the shots from his house.

I was pretty shaken by this. I was a hour+ away from the aurora theater when it happened, at a different midnight showing. Even then, it didn't really hit me deeply. This one fucked me up for a while. I know some business owners of a casket company in Orlando. NYT, AP, and others were on site and taking pics and interviewing the owners in the aftermath. Had pics of their inventory up on the "this week in pictures" sections, too.

Just writing this out now all because I can. Shits fucked. There's so much more I could say and discuss, especially on the times. My first pride parade/events were in orlando. o-town was my first gay life exposure. hell, summers with guncle and the culture shock from it really shaped me into the person I am today.

I thought abotu throwing something up in or kill me, decided against it. So there's my very miniature discussion/perspective.

We're fucked as a species.
We appear to be doomed by our DNA to repeat the same destructive behaviors our forebears have repeated for millenia. If anything our problem solving skills have actually diminished with the advent of technology & our ubiquitous modern conveniences. & yet despite our predisposition towards fear-driven hostility; towards what we anachronistically term primitive behavior another instinct is just as firmly encoded in our make-up. We are capable as our ancestors were of incredible breathtaking acts of kindness. Every hour of every day a man risks his life at a moments notice to save another. Forget for a moment the belligerent benevolent billionaires who grant the unfortunate a crumb of costfree cake. I speak of pure acts of selflessness. A Mother who rushes into the street to save a child from a speeding vehicle. A person who runs into a burning building to reach a family trapped on the upper story. Such actions,such moments,such unconscious selfless decisions,define what it is to be human