Author Topic: Guns and Guns and Guns  (Read 1799 times)

LMNO

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Guns and Guns and Guns
« on: June 16, 2016, 02:29:36 pm »
So, I know that PD has a minor split over gun control.  I'm conflicted about it myself.

Anyway, I kind of loved the Democratic filibuster.  Only took 8 years to find their balls.

But the bills the GOP agreed to hear sort of underscore my conflict.

I think closing the gun show loophole is a good idea.  But the one about barring people on the terrorist watch list from having guns bothers me, for the main reason that the watch list is horribly maintained.  Cain would probably have the most relevant links on that one.

What also bothers me is that a lot of people on my FB feed are like, "we won!"  No you didn't.  The Dems forced congress to hear and debate and vote on the bills.  Which means a party-line vote, which means the bills will most likely not pass.

But still.... progress?

Junkenstein

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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2016, 03:23:59 pm »
Real progress seems unlikely to me as long as the nra exists as a lobbying body.

Get one of those fuckers to talk about control and I'll say progress. As it stands they can throw about enough cash to both sides to block changes.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 03:42:10 pm by Junkenstein »
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2016, 03:44:08 pm »
Guns and genies both begin with the letter -G- Like the mythical genie, guns don't go back in the bottle. Lately I'm viewing the US constitution as a religion. Many reasons for this, not least of which is that I find discussion with american constitutionalists and religious people play out the same way - "It says so in the book" no ground can be made with rational argument. Pointless. America is a theocracy, the constitution is it's holy book, the people fundamentalists. Commandment no.2 - thou shalt guns.

I don't see a change any time soon.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 04:03:54 pm »
The GOP probably WILL vote in favor this time, as it erodes amendments V and VI.   The people on the list haven't been convicted of anything.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2016, 04:12:33 pm »
Yeah, the Watch List thing really bugs me.

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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2016, 05:40:03 pm »
I support people on the watch list being barred from purchasing guns because that's probably the best way for us to fight that stupid fucking list.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2016, 08:07:12 pm »
The watch list would be discrimination, a criminal conviction definitely ban ownership, but otherwise you cant restrict civil liberties based on suspicion: sorry Amed, your brother joined Isis so you can't own a phone any more.
I'm against it being a right, but I'm also against it being used to erode any other civil liberties which is what that would result in, a fundamental increase to a surveillance states power in a time that it requires dismantling.

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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2016, 08:44:36 pm »
The watch list would be discrimination, a criminal conviction definitely ban ownership, but otherwise you cant restrict civil liberties based on suspicion: sorry Amed, your brother joined Isis so you can't own a phone any more.
I'm against it being a right, but I'm also against it being used to erode any other civil liberties which is what that would result in, a fundamental increase to a surveillance states power in a time that it requires dismantling.

Oh, but we can.  In Arizona, your gun rights are suspended on indictment, which is unconstitutional as hell.  Of course we can take them away from suspicious looking smudgy people.

We just haven't yet.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2016, 01:53:41 am »
Real progress seems unlikely to me as long as the nra exists as a lobbying body.

Get one of those fuckers to talk about control and I'll say progress. As it stands they can throw about enough cash to both sides to block changes.

Pretty easy to get the NRA to support gun control, just start arming black people.

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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2016, 02:39:23 pm »
Guns and genies both begin with the letter -G- Like the mythical genie, guns don't go back in the bottle. Lately I'm viewing the US constitution as a religion. Many reasons for this, not least of which is that I find discussion with american constitutionalists and religious people play out the same way - "It says so in the book" no ground can be made with rational argument. Pointless. America is a theocracy, the constitution is it's holy book, the people fundamentalists. Commandment no.2 - thou shalt guns.

I don't see a change any time soon.

Holy shit, that's pretty much exactly what occurs.

Also extends to "the free market" and a bunch of other concepts. Articles of faith based on old and idiotic texts unsuitable for progress in the strange times.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 05:14:38 pm »
Yeah. Reality is becoming much more fluid and seems to mutate quicker. Lots of things that used to be absolute truths are now quite the opposite. Whole cornerstones of our entire civilisation are now obsolete or only function when inserted the other way around.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 09:30:21 am »
Apparently all bills have failed.

I'm sure we're all surprised.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 05:41:11 pm »
Apparently all bills have failed.

I'm sure we're all surprised.

There's an uncomfortable possibility that there's no improvement attainable through single new statutes.

Horror of horrors, there's nothing for the legislature to do. I guess it frees up time for posturing and negotiating on other topics.

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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 05:51:05 pm »
Guns and genies both begin with the letter -G- Like the mythical genie, guns don't go back in the bottle. Lately I'm viewing the US constitution as a religion. Many reasons for this, not least of which is that I find discussion with american constitutionalists and religious people play out the same way - "It says so in the book" no ground can be made with rational argument. Pointless. America is a theocracy, the constitution is it's holy book, the people fundamentalists. Commandment no.2 - thou shalt guns.

I don't see a change any time soon.

Holy shit, that's pretty much exactly what occurs.

Also extends to "the free market" and a bunch of other concepts.

If the constitution's the Bible then free market capitalism would be Dante's Divine Comedy. Never actually part of canon, but people treat it like it was.
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Re: Guns and Guns and Guns
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2016, 10:42:16 pm »
Guns and genies both begin with the letter -G- Like the mythical genie, guns don't go back in the bottle. Lately I'm viewing the US constitution as a religion. Many reasons for this, not least of which is that I find discussion with american constitutionalists and religious people play out the same way - "It says so in the book" no ground can be made with rational argument. Pointless. America is a theocracy, the constitution is it's holy book, the people fundamentalists. Commandment no.2 - thou shalt guns.

I don't see a change any time soon.

Was gonna respond to this, but I got side-tracked and created a rant. Put it in a second thread so as not to derail this one.
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