Author Topic: One Community  (Read 4986 times)

Vanadium Gryllz

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Re: One Community
« Reply #90 on: August 03, 2016, 07:57:18 am »
What happens to everyone's shit at the moment?

Do we just bury it?
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Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2016, 04:16:35 pm »
What happens to everyone's shit at the moment?

Do we just bury it?

It's a mix of treatment plants and good old fashioned "pump it out to sea". Or into a local river.

 
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: One Community
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2016, 04:18:54 pm »
What happens to everyone's shit at the moment?

Do we just bury it?

What Junkenstein just said.

And even where it's done properly, everything is running at or near capacity and a really good rainstorm can make everyone's week better.
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Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #93 on: August 03, 2016, 04:42:21 pm »
There are plenty of ideas of how to counter this, but the most effective one is "less primates".  The principle bar to that is religious, economic, and cultural demands for large families.

Stepping away from shit for a moment, I think it's worth a quick look at why there are so many monkeys and why this is unlikely to slow down at all for the reasons Roger mentions. The short version is that all the problems you see in western countries in these regards are magnified in developing countries and the results are pretty fucked up.

I'm quite sure we can gloss over the Religious push for MORE MONKEYS. If anyone is unfamiliar with, say, catholic attitudes and subsequent issues in parts of Africa, this is not the thread to read really. The simple logic behind most religions pushing having kids, particularly multiple kids and making a big issue of this is that it simply grows the following at a basic level. Funding and expansion follows. It's logic seen in many places and it just gets a slightly different spin on it.

This religious drive and the money it generates also benefits most nation states with increased GDP and such. A viable tax base is needed to just keep basic shit going. If you want to upgrade anything, you need a larger base. This kind of logic becomes hilarious in places like the UK where you have an ageing population so political parties on both sides realise that you need bodies replacing these. You then see this implemented as de-facto policy where there's no actual change to legislation despite propaganda suggesting otherwise would occur. I'd expect to see "Have more kids" kind of propaganda to start up in the UK the second any actual restrictions are put in place.

The cultural needs for MORE MONKEYS vary vastly on the culture, though the end result is pretty much the same. "The more of US there are, the safer we are from THEM". "Them", depending on the culture could mean (non)government forces, disease and famine or local militants or nutters. Being able to confront THEM with MORE MONKEYS than they have has historically meant victory. After all, you're dealing with Monkeys now that have been honed to a killer edge over multiple thousand years of war, famine, plague and all other manner of horrors. However bad you think anywhere may be now, it's a playground compared to the place 200 years ago.

If nothing else, just consider the smell 200 years ago.


That's a broad brush of why some places/people feel that they need MORE MONKEYS. The question is how do we convince such people it's not required?

For the religious, there's pretty much no hope. You're dealing with a belief structure that's usually quite inflexible and not particularly open to logic. If this was not the case then the Pope would have been handing out rubbers in Africa for decades. As it stands, Africa is one of the places where the catholic church is consistently growing.

Economically, there's not much hope either. The UK needs fresh meat, as does the USA. Even France and Germany need it to some extent though they are better at hiding taking it in. Germany's willingness to accept refugees, for example, serves the national interest to a considerable degree with a new pile of potential tax income. Investment in refugees now is a direct increase in GDP for them in 5-10 years after they're established. Rewards will come in the interim too as they are granted permission to work (and therefore, pay tax) along the way.

Culturally, you may actually have a chance. Provided you can actually convince people that you don't have to do shit the way it's always been done and that THEY are not about to fuck everything up and kill everyone you know. So, you know, good luck with that. I hear people are open to change. 
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Re: One Community
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2016, 06:05:49 pm »
There's also a biological component, I think, Nigel may need to correct me.

In countries where biological priorities are met, populations decrease in general, and in countries where they don't, they increase. I think.

This is because infant mortality has been a big thing for millions of years, and isn't gonna get shut off by short term consequences like "drowning in one's own shit." As far as I know. 

This also isn't anyone's fault. Humans have sped up environmental change, and evolution doesn't care about keeping up.

Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2016, 06:30:09 pm »
Quote
This is because infant mortality has been a big thing for millions of years, and isn't gonna get shut off by short term consequences like "drowning in one's own shit." As far as I know. 

There is the element which I didn't want to get too deeply into. I think it's largely a societal issue and I'm pretty sure it drops when ante-natal care improves in a community. I'd defer to Nigel for specific things, but I'm pretty sure there's a few studies showing that access to midwife kind of services results in a surprising amount of positive things. Often just basic health and hygiene care/advice can seriously alter the quality of life in a community.
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Q. G. Pennyworth

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Re: One Community
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2016, 10:35:30 pm »
http://www.un.org/press/en/2011/pop994.doc.htm
Quote
Higher levels of education, particularly among girls, had a strong correlation to declining fertility and better development outcomes, delegates and experts said today as the Commission on Population and Development continued its forty-fourth session.


“More education translates into better health outcomes in all societies,” said Abulkalam Abdul Momen ( Bangladesh), Vice-President of the United Nations Economic and Social Council, as he opened the Commission’s general debate on the contribution of population and development issues to the theme for the Council’s 2011 Annual Ministerial Review.  He added that educated women were better able to plan their families and more aware of employment, schooling and health opportunities for themselves and their children.  On a wider level, fewer children in a society meant that more resources were available to every individual child, he said.

There's plenty more on the same general terms, but the basics are you improve education specifically for women and birth rates plummet. Malala Yousafzai could be the human most likely to save all our asses from extinction.
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Re: One Community
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2016, 10:49:56 pm »
What happens to everyone's shit at the moment?

Do we just bury it?

Here, we treat it, dry it, and spread it on grazing land as fertilizer.
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Re: One Community
« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2016, 11:05:30 pm »
There are plenty of ideas of how to counter this, but the most effective one is "less primates".  The principle bar to that is religious, economic, and cultural demands for large families.

Stepping away from shit for a moment, I think it's worth a quick look at why there are so many monkeys and why this is unlikely to slow down at all for the reasons Roger mentions.

Not to nitpick, but the population growth rate has slowed down quite a lot since it peaked in 1968, probably mostly due to increasing standards of living and education for women. http://blogs.worldbank.org/futuredevelopment/rapid-slowdown-population-growth



“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: One Community
« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2016, 11:13:30 pm »
There's also a biological component, I think, Nigel may need to correct me.

In countries where biological priorities are met, populations decrease in general, and in countries where they don't, they increase. I think.

This is because infant mortality has been a big thing for millions of years, and isn't gonna get shut off by short term consequences like "drowning in one's own shit." As far as I know. 

This also isn't anyone's fault. Humans have sped up environmental change, and evolution doesn't care about keeping up.

It's largely a combination of factors that include:

1. Post-agricultural lifestyles, such that a large number of progeny to work the land are no longer needed
2. Resultant freedom of women to serve in roles other than broodmare
3. Increased options in life for both men and women (see also education)
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #100 on: August 03, 2016, 11:50:53 pm »
There are plenty of ideas of how to counter this, but the most effective one is "less primates".  The principle bar to that is religious, economic, and cultural demands for large families.

Stepping away from shit for a moment, I think it's worth a quick look at why there are so many monkeys and why this is unlikely to slow down at all for the reasons Roger mentions.

Not to nitpick, but the population growth rate has slowed down quite a lot since it peaked in 1968, probably mostly due to increasing standards of living and education for women. http://blogs.worldbank.org/futuredevelopment/rapid-slowdown-population-growth



The more you know. Appreciated, will take a look.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: One Community
« Reply #101 on: August 04, 2016, 02:36:21 am »
http://www.un.org/press/en/2011/pop994.doc.htm
Quote
Higher levels of education, particularly among girls, had a strong correlation to declining fertility and better development outcomes, delegates and experts said today as the Commission on Population and Development continued its forty-fourth session.


“More education translates into better health outcomes in all societies,” said Abulkalam Abdul Momen ( Bangladesh), Vice-President of the United Nations Economic and Social Council, as he opened the Commission’s general debate on the contribution of population and development issues to the theme for the Council’s 2011 Annual Ministerial Review.  He added that educated women were better able to plan their families and more aware of employment, schooling and health opportunities for themselves and their children.  On a wider level, fewer children in a society meant that more resources were available to every individual child, he said.

There's plenty more on the same general terms, but the basics are you improve education specifically for women and birth rates plummet. Malala Yousafzai could be the human most likely to save all our asses from extinction.

It's also just flat-out worth doing on its own merits.

The idea that women are not as capable as men is, to me, like saying that the luminous aether is a thing.  It's  hundred years ago, and a hundred years ago sucked monkey balls (and, of course, mustard gas).
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: One Community
« Reply #102 on: August 04, 2016, 02:38:58 am »

Stepping away from shit for a moment, I think it's worth a quick look at why there are so many monkeys and why this is unlikely to slow down at all for the reasons Roger mentions.

Actually, I believe I said the rate of growth is in fact declining, but the absolute number of humans still means there's a net increase of 200 humans per minute at the current rate.

If I was unclear, I apologize.  If I am remembering it incorrectly then I am senile and will be happy to fling my own feces at you.
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Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #103 on: August 04, 2016, 03:05:37 pm »

Stepping away from shit for a moment, I think it's worth a quick look at why there are so many monkeys and why this is unlikely to slow down at all for the reasons Roger mentions.

Actually, I believe I said the rate of growth is in fact declining, but the absolute number of humans still means there's a net increase of 200 humans per minute at the current rate.

If I was unclear, I apologize.  If I am remembering it incorrectly then I am senile and will be happy to fling my own feces at you.

Feces flinging not required, I misunderstood and went off in completely the wrong direction.

Reading and reassessing, as usual there's more shit to learn.
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Re: One Community
« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2016, 04:12:40 pm »
So I searched these forums but was unable to find a thread on this topic so here's one.

At onecommunityglobal.com they are attempting to create a sort of Venus Project / Zeitgeist sustainable community that is both a tourist attraction and an example of modern living in comfort while using only sustainable technology.  I've spent a couple weeks reading nearly everything on their website, which is a LOT of reading and researching, and I have to say I very much like this project

However, some of the terminology they've invented and the way a lot of their ideas are presented makes me a bit... hesitant.  They seem rather heavily Holistic / PETA-ish in their way of addressing many things.  Maybe I'm just knee-jerking to the word "Holistic" and certain terms like "The Highest Good Of All" which reminds me of Grindlewald from the Harry Potter universe. ("The Greatest Good!")

I'm curious as to what the people here may think, being somewhat better than me at spotting bullshit disguised as goodness.

 - trix

Thanx for the thread, trix. Just saw it this AM and read the first page of replies.

It seems obvious to me that the purpose for the elaborate web site is either to attract enrollees or to attract crowdfunding.

Oddly I arrived at a position in life wherein I am currently in the process of developing a similar community. At least similar in concept.

I purchased a large piece of land in an impossibly remote location and have gathered a small crew of candidates who want to collectively develop it as a community. The land is so remote that it really isn't even practical to inhabit it unless you import a community to share it with you.

I will be perusing the site to learn what I can from their preps and organization. Thanks again!