Author Topic: Apple and Haugheys legacy  (Read 1929 times)

Faust

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Apple and Haugheys legacy
« on: September 01, 2016, 02:57:43 pm »
30 years ago Ireland was led by a man named Charles Haughey, he was a husband, a politician and before anything else, a criminal; willing to do things that would make Berlesconi blush. He was for all intents and purposes a mobster, with a finger in every pie; gun running, extortion, property scams, if there was money to be made by bending or outright breaking some rule, he was for it.
Roll on 30 Years and we are seeing his legacy in the news, even if he is not explicitly named, over a deal he made with Apple.

When you hear about Ireland being a tax haven, you think of systemic corruption, to allow such a thing, in our case, it can all be pretty much put back on this one man.
He was mercurial and beyond morality, to the point that the troubles of the North actually were calmed by his presence, after all, political ideologies driving violence was bad for business. You can see from that cold knowing crooked smile that he knew what he was doing, he knew what the future would be and at the heart of it he knew he would be a rich man for it, if anything he had a consistent approach to policy: shake hands with anyone who will and keep the money flowing.
For better or worse he has shaped Ireland for what it is today responsible for Ireland's most prosperous and most corrupt period.

You probably didn't come in here to read about some dead Paddy from three decades ago, even if he was good at pulling an ol' scam or two. The reason you are hearing about him now is because he was the MASTER of pulling a scam or two, and its his legacy that has shaped the stage of international business and politics.
Its because of him that Microsoft, Apple, General Electric, Facebook, IBM, Starbucks and Google have their headquarters here, and declare 99% of their worldwide profits through here.

Lets talk a little about these businesses... The large internationals are incorporated, so lets think of them as people, because as people they are developing some serious issues.
The role of government and business isn't a new problem, nor is the notion of a company moving elsewhere when the profits are to their advantage, what seems to be new though is the implicit resentment of a corporation for its national ties.
The tax avoidance issue is just a small symptom of a mentality that is arising. It became clear with the other battle Apple were fighting this year, fighting for the civil liberties of its phone users and their right to privacy from the state. The encryption lawsuit that apple won publicly humiliated the FBI should paint a clearer picture of the companies self image.

It is a declaration by these companies, not that they are stateless, amoral entities, but that they are a nation of their own, with a sense of entitlement to set their own rules, and the rights of its citizens be they employees or consumers of their products.
It's a worrying trend because the combined lobbying power, and pervasive presence in day to day life means that they are more in touch with their users/citizens than the slow moving wheels of government ever could be. Facebook is far more likely to be able to tell you what it's preferred colour of the truth is then any public body because Facebook knows, they see how hard it is, it listens to your needs, give you what you want, and they do all this without asking for much, nothing more then to keep them close.

We're now in a time when these companies can petulantly and wilfully ignore the desires of their parent nations, and the recent explorations of Tesco, facebook and even your Mobile phone providers experimenting with the idea of their own currencies, sooner rather then later you'll be able to get a passport from one of these guys.

I suppose the real question is, Will that be worse then what we have?
I suspect that this coinciding with the time where wealth inequality is wider then it has ever been before, when the average couple needs to be a middle earner with both working full time to be able to afford a home, that it is unlikely this is going to lead better lives for any of us. The new boss will be worse then the old,and accountable to no one.

So here we are, when a corporation can drain its host state before discarding them. Where government is approaching obsolescence. The next time you hear about a company pissing in the states eye, think of old Charles Haughey, because this is his dream not just for Ireland, but the world, fulfilled.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 03:15:49 pm by Faust »

Eater of Clowns

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 04:20:35 pm »
Maybe if I apply early I can get into the iGulag. It'll at least be cleaner.
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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2016, 04:58:56 pm »
But but but THE MARKET and CAPITALISM! We need these corporations to be as free as possible to do whatever they deem best, so the market pressures can decide on... things.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Faust

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2016, 05:09:52 pm »
But but but THE MARKET and CAPITALISM! We need these corporations to be as free as possible to do whatever they deem best, so the market pressures can decide on... things.

Its an interesting one to speculate on, because of finance these companies have figuratively been allowed to put resources outside of peoples reach,  with the assistance of changing technology and their new found interest in space travel, I get horrible visions of them literally disappearing into space with the worlds wealth.

Junkenstein

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2016, 05:54:39 pm »
But but but THE MARKET and CAPITALISM! We need these corporations to be as free as possible to do whatever they deem best, so the market pressures can decide on... things.

Its an interesting one to speculate on, because of finance these companies have figuratively been allowed to put resources outside of peoples reach,  with the assistance of changing technology and their new found interest in space travel, I get horrible visions of them literally disappearing into space with the worlds wealth.

With the current setup of tax havens and hidden ownership, it would be difficult to tell if this even occurred.

The reporting on this affair is quite odd. Most seem to be pushing for Apple's right to behave like a shitbag. Cock has made statements along the line of "fuck you, waaah".  The Irish government seems to be being pushed into a very shaky position where it needs to defend all of this despite the fact they're going to literally lose billions of they do.

No surprises to see who's quick to jump out with anti eu sentiments as a result either. Made more amusing as as far as I can tell this is the most laudable thing the eu has actually accomplished in 5 years. Biggest problem with debacle is the exposure and threat of more to come in showing power of multinational over state with threat of jobs. Shows how petty corporate thinking can be. Also demonstrates idiocy of politicians.

Example in Ireland is 6K jobs "at risk". Assume each job supports family of 5 = 30K people potentially affected. Google current population of Ireland. This is not a significant percentage.

Next consider that these 6K passed apple hiring standards. Alternate comparative employment will exist. Regardless, assume hefty benefit package on the state for 1 year /person. Assume cost / person / year to be 30K.= 1.8e8. Compare to money owed consider percentage again. Negligible. This is not even a conversation.

Now observe everyone rush to make the opposite happen.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Junkenstein

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 05:57:15 pm »
Maybe if I apply early I can get into the iGulag. It'll at least be cleaner.

The sister firm G4S have been running beta trials worldwide for a while. Will let them know you're keen.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 09:33:09 pm »
I'm also having 5 on Mars as a tax haven within 200 years. I'm also pretty sure that was part of the background plot in total recall. Seems plausible.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2016, 03:26:36 pm »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "government" the mechanism by which all formal incorporation of nations, churches, and all other chartered bodies functions? I mean, to grossly oversimplify, isn't the idea that all members of the body do like it says on the paper? The body itself, or another deignated body duly so empowered, enforces what it says on the paper. I know that the common usage is not quite as I describe, but it seems like a false dichotomy that gives rise to entirely unnecessary factionalism of ideology when really folks are arguing about who gets authority to say what goes on the paper and how it gets enforcement?
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MMIX

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2016, 02:30:22 pm »
I wish I could cartoon. I have had the phrase "an apple for the Taoiseach" stuck in my head since I read this thread. :(
If the answer is Donald J Trump then it must have been a fucking stupid question.
Trump cultists; "and some, I assume, are good people"
Collusion??? ~ "If it truly was a nothingburger, theres nothing here, why not open the kimono?

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2016, 04:20:17 pm »
I wish I could cartoon. I have had the phrase "an apple for the Taoiseach" stuck in my head since I read this thread. :(

If you wish hard enough while you practice and study your results may be EXACTLY the same, but it will FEEL more special. I'm trying get the hang of pic editing, myself.

I have only ever really wanted to throw my precious phone a couple times ever before, but it's been like 3 times just this week.

What I'm saying is don't wish too hard, or something. I think.  :?
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

MMIX

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2016, 04:46:33 pm »
I wish I could cartoon. I have had the phrase "an apple for the Taoiseach" stuck in my head since I read this thread. :(

If you wish hard enough while you practice and study your results may be EXACTLY the same, but it will FEEL more special. I'm trying get the hang of pic editing, myself.

I have only ever really wanted to throw my precious phone a couple times ever before, but it's been like 3 times just this week.

What I'm saying is don't wish too hard, or something. I think.  :?

Lol. Yeah, you are so right. You know what they say
Q] "what is an artist? "
A] " an artist is someone who actually does art"
If the answer is Donald J Trump then it must have been a fucking stupid question.
Trump cultists; "and some, I assume, are good people"
Collusion??? ~ "If it truly was a nothingburger, theres nothing here, why not open the kimono?

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2016, 08:13:32 pm »
I wish I could cartoon. I have had the phrase "an apple for the Taoiseach" stuck in my head since I read this thread. :(

If you wish hard enough while you practice and study your results may be EXACTLY the same, but it will FEEL more special. I'm trying get the hang of pic editing, myself.

I have only ever really wanted to throw my precious phone a couple times ever before, but it's been like 3 times just this week.

What I'm saying is don't wish too hard, or something. I think.  :?

Lol. Yeah, you are so right. You know what they say
Q] "what is an artist? "
A] " an artist is someone who actually does art"

It's true. It's sort of like how a writer is someone who doesn't just think about writing or talk about writing, but sits the fuck down and DOES it.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2016, 12:08:17 am »
I wish I could cartoon. I have had the phrase "an apple for the Taoiseach" stuck in my head since I read this thread. :(

If you wish hard enough while you practice and study your results may be EXACTLY the same, but it will FEEL more special. I'm trying get the hang of pic editing, myself.

I have only ever really wanted to throw my precious phone a couple times ever before, but it's been like 3 times just this week.

What I'm saying is don't wish too hard, or something. I think.  :?

Lol. Yeah, you are so right. You know what they say
Q] "what is an artist? "
A] " an artist is someone who actually does art"

It's true. It's sort of like how a writer is someone who doesn't just think about writing or talk about writing, but sits the fuck down and DOES it.

"If you would be a writer, write."  -Epictetus, Stoic fuddyduddy and actual writer

Them Greeks sure had a way with words. This back when "permanent storage" like paper or STONE were the the only likely media and costly AF. I want a bronze chisel that says "remember" in Greek script and Egyptian hieroglyphics as a paperweight one day, just to remind myself exactly how much work actually went into things back then, and that it's not so bad to live in The Future.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

NeonWytch

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2016, 04:14:48 pm »

Lol. Yeah, you are so right. You know what they say
Q] "what is an artist? "
A] " an artist is someone who actually does art"

Hey, that doesn't always work.

Q] "What is a thinker?"
A] "Someone who talks."
A wise man once said "What was that? I couldn't hear you."

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Re: Apple and Haugheys legacy
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2016, 05:29:10 pm »

Lol. Yeah, you are so right. You know what they say
Q] "what is an artist? "
A] " an artist is someone who actually does art"

Hey, that doesn't always work.

Q] "What is a thinker?"
A] "Someone who talks."

You seem to be under the impression that the words "think" and "talk" can be used synonymously.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.