Author Topic: November 2016: Hail Discordia  (Read 3706 times)

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2016, 05:40:22 am »
I have some ideas, but I certainly won't be doing anything here.  We have two self-avowed fascists running around.

Do you even know what fascism is?
I've looked it up and the parts that aren't arrant doubletalk generally have to do with authoritarianism and strong leadership, and an emphasis on martial and macho culture with all the braindead stupidity that comes with theose things turned up to 11,

Youre almost right. Look, Fascism started in Italy as a socialist movement. At this time, communists/socialists were genuinely trying to bring about a worldwide revolution, which meant if you wanted to be a commie you had to get cozy with Mother Russia the vanguard of the revolution. Eventually the fascists bucked this trend and told Russia to fuck off. So the Russians started using "fascism" as a snarl word for any socialists that wouldnt play ball with them. This included the Nazis, who being NATIONAL Socialists werent too fond of the whole worldwide revolution thing to begin with. America adopted this trend of using Fascism to describe its enemies in WW2, without really caring what it meant.

Then after the war a book called "The Crisis of the Liberal System and the Fascist Movements" by Ernst Nolte was published. He argued that the various totalitarian movements that happened in Europe between WW1 and WW2 were similar enough to all fall in the same category.

Basically, Fascism is what happens when Democracy goes terminal. What happened in all these places was, Democracy had devolved into various oligarchies trying to manipulate the masses for their own interests. While the actual stated goal of Democracy, giving people power over their government, had been abandoned. It seemed like no matter who they elected the people never actually got what they want, because the people they were electing had no interest in what the people wanted and were just power hungry self centered assholes. Does this sound familiar to you?

Then Fascism comes along and does something very simple, it offers people exactly what they want. It bucks the entire system that came before it, left/right communist/capitalist and focuses on fulfilling the will of the people. In a strange way it could be seen almost as a kind of democratic fundamentalism. The Will of the People above all things.

The goal is the complete transformation of a diseased society(totalitarianism), via an extrajudicial uniformed party militia lead by a charismatic leader, who, unlike the average despot, has his finger on the will of the people and executes it. The fact that Trump has so much opposition and hate by definition excludes him from fascism(he also doesnt fit any of the other qualifications while were at it). Fascism when it comes, is almost universally loved and supported by the people. All the European fascists, while having enemies in the diehards of the old establishment, enjoyed popular support of the average person in the street.

 Thats why I say when fascism happens in America it probably wont be racist, because that isnt what the people want. When Sinclair Lewis said  "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." He wasnt making some smarmy Jon Stewart jab at country hicks clinging to guns and bibles. He was speaking to an audience that still revered both of those things, strongly. Fascism isnt Trump, fascism is what comes after Trump. Fascism will present itself as SAVING you from Trump. And you will welcome it. Because it will be wrapped in the things you revere most.
 

So you're saying it's The Aftermath. That fits surprisingly well; like even the malaclypse "doom"/"dumb" thing fits

The identification with facism is lacking though. It was facism at the end of the last cycle, but if we look back another equal period of time before that we find the buildup to the Civil War and before that we find the american revolution.

(If anybody can pick out the 1696 and 1616 aftermath events I'd appreciate it)

Bear in mind though that even if the past events reset and renewed the system the last one also ended in nuclear war. There may not be a world to reset when this is over.

Or, conversely, I would also draw your attention to the epistle of Jesse Sump reprinted in the Bobliographicon predicting that "in the end times it shall come to pass that they are not the end times and neither shall there be any casting out of the false prophets; but the same old shit, and rumors of the same old shit, shall continue for all eternity"
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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2016, 07:12:23 am »
But what about abortion rights

Not important except when it's medically necessary.

I'm more worried about how racist he is and the fact that everything he's run in the past has gone bankrupt


Oh, about the bolded?  FUCK YOU.

Unless that was a sarcastic quip.

I kinda doubt it was.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 07:14:13 am »
But what about abortion rights

Not important except when it's medically necessary.

I'm more worried about how racist he is and the fact that everything he's run in the past has gone bankrupt

If only you could just post here when it was medically necessary.

 :mittens:
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


The Wizard Joseph

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2016, 11:37:56 am »

Cmon, whatever our political differences do you really think I would fuck with trolling plans? Trolling is a sacrament.
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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2016, 05:07:51 pm »
Damn y'all hmu in the DMs (or whatever they're called on here... PMs?) when you figure out where you're going to talk plans. Can't you just make a secret board on here that the fascists don't have access to?


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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2016, 05:18:49 pm »
But what about abortion rights

Not important except when it's medically necessary.

I'm more worried about how racist he is and the fact that everything he's run in the past has gone bankrupt

Have you considered not being a waste of human flesh? Your organs could be put to much better use in lots of people.

Like, you've got blood, two kidneys, bone marrow to spare, and probably plenty of skin. Any of those could be medically necessary to save a human life if you're a biological match. There's no real reason to give you the right to bodily autonomy over your spare parts as long as they don't take enough to kill you.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2016, 05:25:02 pm »
a fetus is not part of the body. basic genetic testing will bear this out.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2016, 05:28:28 pm »
Oh. You're stupid. I forgot.

I'm so sorry.

Vanadium Gryllz

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2016, 05:30:39 pm »
Oh. You're stupid. I forgot.

I'm so sorry.

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2016, 06:39:57 pm »
I have some ideas, but I certainly won't be doing anything here.  We have two self-avowed fascists running around.

Do you even know what fascism is?
I've looked it up and the parts that aren't arrant doubletalk generally have to do with authoritarianism and strong leadership, and an emphasis on martial and macho culture with all the braindead stupidity that comes with theose things turned up to 11,

Youre almost right. Look, Fascism started in Italy as a socialist movement. At this time, communists/socialists were genuinely trying to bring about a worldwide revolution, which meant if you wanted to be a commie you had to get cozy with Mother Russia the vanguard of the revolution. Eventually the fascists bucked this trend and told Russia to fuck off. So the Russians started using "fascism" as a snarl word for any socialists that wouldnt play ball with them. This included the Nazis, who being NATIONAL Socialists werent too fond of the whole worldwide revolution thing to begin with. America adopted this trend of using Fascism to describe its enemies in WW2, without really caring what it meant.

Then after the war a book called "The Crisis of the Liberal System and the Fascist Movements" by Ernst Nolte was published. He argued that the various totalitarian movements that happened in Europe between WW1 and WW2 were similar enough to all fall in the same category.

Basically, Fascism is what happens when Democracy goes terminal. What happened in all these places was, Democracy had devolved into various oligarchies trying to manipulate the masses for their own interests. While the actual stated goal of Democracy, giving people power over their government, had been abandoned. It seemed like no matter who they elected the people never actually got what they want, because the people they were electing had no interest in what the people wanted and were just power hungry self centered assholes. Does this sound familiar to you?

Then Fascism comes along and does something very simple, it offers people exactly what they want. It bucks the entire system that came before it, left/right communist/capitalist and focuses on fulfilling the will of the people. In a strange way it could be seen almost as a kind of democratic fundamentalism. The Will of the People above all things.

The goal is the complete transformation of a diseased society(totalitarianism), via an extrajudicial uniformed party militia lead by a charismatic leader, who, unlike the average despot, has his finger on the will of the people and executes it. The fact that Trump has so much opposition and hate by definition excludes him from fascism(he also doesnt fit any of the other qualifications while were at it). Fascism when it comes, is almost universally loved and supported by the people. All the European fascists, while having enemies in the diehards of the old establishment, enjoyed popular support of the average person in the street.

 Thats why I say when fascism happens in America it probably wont be racist, because that isnt what the people want. When Sinclair Lewis said  "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." He wasnt making some smarmy Jon Stewart jab at country hicks clinging to guns and bibles. He was speaking to an audience that still revered both of those things, strongly. Fascism isnt Trump, fascism is what comes after Trump. Fascism will present itself as SAVING you from Trump. And you will welcome it. Because it will be wrapped in the things you revere most.
 

So you're saying it's The Aftermath. That fits surprisingly well; like even the malaclypse "doom"/"dumb" thing fits

BOY THERE SURE ARE A LOT OF LIBERALS DECLARING AMERICA TO BE A FAILED DEMOCRACY. If only there was a strong, charming, red-tape cutting no-nonsense type of leader who could take the reigns and fix it.

Incidentally, while I severely doubt both of these, if Trump is both sincere and successful in his plans to fix things he could delay the onset of fascism in America for quite awhile. All the more reason to root for him, if youre the type who describes themselves as "antifascist"

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2016, 06:44:02 pm »
I have some ideas, but I certainly won't be doing anything here.  We have two self-avowed fascists running around.

Do you even know what fascism is?
I've looked it up and the parts that aren't arrant doubletalk generally have to do with authoritarianism and strong leadership, and an emphasis on martial and macho culture with all the braindead stupidity that comes with theose things turned up to 11,

Youre almost right. Look, Fascism started in Italy as a socialist movement. At this time, communists/socialists were genuinely trying to bring about a worldwide revolution, which meant if you wanted to be a commie you had to get cozy with Mother Russia the vanguard of the revolution. Eventually the fascists bucked this trend and told Russia to fuck off. So the Russians started using "fascism" as a snarl word for any socialists that wouldnt play ball with them. This included the Nazis, who being NATIONAL Socialists werent too fond of the whole worldwide revolution thing to begin with. America adopted this trend of using Fascism to describe its enemies in WW2, without really caring what it meant.

Then after the war a book called "The Crisis of the Liberal System and the Fascist Movements" by Ernst Nolte was published. He argued that the various totalitarian movements that happened in Europe between WW1 and WW2 were similar enough to all fall in the same category.

Basically, Fascism is what happens when Democracy goes terminal. What happened in all these places was, Democracy had devolved into various oligarchies trying to manipulate the masses for their own interests. While the actual stated goal of Democracy, giving people power over their government, had been abandoned. It seemed like no matter who they elected the people never actually got what they want, because the people they were electing had no interest in what the people wanted and were just power hungry self centered assholes. Does this sound familiar to you?

Then Fascism comes along and does something very simple, it offers people exactly what they want. It bucks the entire system that came before it, left/right communist/capitalist and focuses on fulfilling the will of the people. In a strange way it could be seen almost as a kind of democratic fundamentalism. The Will of the People above all things.

The goal is the complete transformation of a diseased society(totalitarianism), via an extrajudicial uniformed party militia lead by a charismatic leader, who, unlike the average despot, has his finger on the will of the people and executes it. The fact that Trump has so much opposition and hate by definition excludes him from fascism(he also doesnt fit any of the other qualifications while were at it). Fascism when it comes, is almost universally loved and supported by the people. All the European fascists, while having enemies in the diehards of the old establishment, enjoyed popular support of the average person in the street.

 Thats why I say when fascism happens in America it probably wont be racist, because that isnt what the people want. When Sinclair Lewis said  "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." He wasnt making some smarmy Jon Stewart jab at country hicks clinging to guns and bibles. He was speaking to an audience that still revered both of those things, strongly. Fascism isnt Trump, fascism is what comes after Trump. Fascism will present itself as SAVING you from Trump. And you will welcome it. Because it will be wrapped in the things you revere most.
 

So you're saying it's The Aftermath. That fits surprisingly well; like even the malaclypse "doom"/"dumb" thing fits

BOY THERE SURE ARE A LOT OF LIBERALS DECLARING AMERICA TO BE A FAILED DEMOCRACY. If only there was a strong, charming, red-tape cutting no-nonsense type of leader who could take the reigns and fix it.

That's the crux of my assessment, the Aftermath follows on the heels of the era of Bureaucracy. The Bureaucracy becomes too big and becomes unviable.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2016, 05:15:40 am »
Oh. You're stupid. I forgot.

I'm so sorry.

:mittens:
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2016, 05:25:26 am »
Oh. You're stupid. I forgot.

I'm so sorry.

:lulz:
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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2016, 07:27:22 pm »
I don't know how someone can fail to grasp the principle of bodily autonomy so completely. Must require a pretty thick layer of misogyny smeared over one's reality filter.

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Re: November 2016: Hail Discordia
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2016, 07:29:34 pm »
I don't know how someone can fail to grasp the principle of bodily autonomy so completely. Must require a pretty thick layer of misogyny smeared over one's reality filter.

Well, to apply the concept of bodily autonomy to women, you first have to think of them as real people.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.