Author Topic: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever  (Read 4481 times)

Salty

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2016, 07:25:48 pm »
I think our education system omits too many skill-sets that allow these kinds of conversations to be productive with people like that. I think the education aspect is probably the most critical.

If high schoolers were shown the exact, highly detailed specifics of the kinds of things that happen under a certain kinds of rule, they would think twice. If Americans were properly educated as to how WW2 and the Holocaust actually happened, and what happened as a result, we would not be in this situation.

The white middle class is too comfortable and stupid to learn the error of their current ways. This will probably go all the way to Muslim internment camps, and only afterwards will the country acknowledge it's mistake. Maybe.
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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2016, 07:34:33 pm »
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't call out racist behaviour... intolerance left unchecked is only likely to get worse.

However
eight years of liberal progressiveness has apparently alienated a large portion of the population and there's only so much banging your head against the wall one can do before your brain starts leaking out of your ears.

I can't believe that every person who voted Trump is a racist of the cross-burning, hood-wearing variety and I think that lumping them all together under that umbrella is damaging to 'the cause' of social progress.

Alright a lot of them might be like that and maybe they voted along those lines. But all of them? Come on. The reasons surely differ from person to person.

By exploring those reasons maybe we can discover some handles with which to steer the runaway train that is global society.

We didn't alienate them. They were already just as racist and sexist, and when women and people of color felt more free to demand less oppression,  they felt threatened. They would feel threatened by any effort at reducing inequity, because they think it's a zero-sum game. So our options become to either accept inequities in order to avoid making them feel threatened, or to try to redress inequities, causing them to feel threatened.

In other words, the only way to keep them from feeling threatened is for us to "know our place", and stay in it.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2016, 07:37:44 pm »
So, basically, it's still down to waiting for them to age out and die, while continuing to make a fuss about racism and misogyny so that the young people have a head start on getting this shit sorted. The younger generation is much, much better. They don't have as much of a kneejerk reaction to the idea that being considerate to other people is some kind of erosion of their rights.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2016, 07:42:35 pm »
So, basically, it's still down to waiting for them to age out and die, while continuing to make a fuss about racism and misogyny so that the young people have a head start on getting this shit sorted. The younger generation is much, much better. They don't have as much of a kneejerk reaction to the idea that being considerate to other people is some kind of erosion of their rights.

Trump won 40% of the millennial vote and 48% of the white millennial vote.

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2016, 07:44:43 pm »
We didn't alienate them. They were already just as racist and sexist, and when women and people of color felt more free to demand less oppression,  they felt threatened. They would feel threatened by any effort at reducing inequity, because they think it's a zero-sum game. So our options become to either accept inequities in order to avoid making them feel threatened, or to try to redress inequities, causing them to feel threatened.

In other words, the only way to keep them from feeling threatened is for us to "know our place", and stay in it.

This is amazing. Person who has zero contact with white working class America reasserts their magical knowledge of them and their own rightness in the face of being completely wrong about everything about the election.

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2016, 07:45:32 pm »
Does Nigel have me blocked? If she does I would like a split preferably to the existing election thread. I dont want people who block me posting off topic in my threads.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 07:53:24 pm by xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) »

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2016, 07:54:50 pm »
Would "you're acting racist" work better?   Not a troll, an honest question.  I know semantics is largely bullshit, but if it's more accurate, and easier to accept, than maybe?

I have tried a million different ways of pointing out racism, and some people are willing to understand but some people go to "racism is a bad thing that bad people do and I'm not a bad person, so what I'm doing must not be racist... HEY THAT PERSON IS CALLING ME A BAD PERSON!"

Essentially, it seems like some people just can't or won't break out of that loop.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2016, 07:58:36 pm »
Thing is, we ARE seeing a backlash, but I think a lot of people are mistaken about why. We are seeing a backlash because we reached a stage where underrepresented groups finally felt like it was safe to ask to be treated like full human beings. The backlash is happening in response to that, not because people are "alienated from our cause". They were never with our cause in the first place, and they just want us to shut up about it because we make them feel uncomfortable and threaten their complacency.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


LMNO

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2016, 08:10:57 pm »
I learn things when I listen to you.  Thanks for sticking around this dump.

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2016, 08:11:15 pm »
Thing is, we ARE seeing a backlash, but I think a lot of people are mistaken about why. We are seeing a backlash because we reached a stage where underrepresented groups finally felt like it was safe to ask to be treated like full human beings. The backlash is happening in response to that, not because people are "alienated from our cause". They were never with our cause in the first place, and they just want us to shut up about it because we make them feel uncomfortable and threaten their complacency.

"The reason were losing is because were right"

2018 cant come soon enough.

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2016, 08:12:06 pm »
I learn things when I listen to you.  Thanks for sticking around this dump.

You learned nothing. She told you were already right and you have nothing to learn.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2016, 08:14:29 pm »
I learn things when I listen to you.  Thanks for sticking around this dump.

Thanks, man! I really appreciate that.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2016, 11:23:40 pm »
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't call out racist behaviour... intolerance left unchecked is only likely to get worse.

However
eight years of liberal progressiveness has apparently alienated a large portion of the population and there's only so much banging your head against the wall one can do before your brain starts leaking out of your ears.

I can't believe that every person who voted Trump is a racist of the cross-burning, hood-wearing variety and I think that lumping them all together under that umbrella is damaging to 'the cause' of social progress.

Alright a lot of them might be like that and maybe they voted along those lines. But all of them? Come on. The reasons surely differ from person to person.

By exploring those reasons maybe we can discover some handles with which to steer the runaway train that is global society.

We didn't alienate them. They were already just as racist and sexist, and when women and people of color felt more free to demand less oppression,  they felt threatened. They would feel threatened by any effort at reducing inequity, because they think it's a zero-sum game. So our options become to either accept inequities in order to avoid making them feel threatened, or to try to redress inequities, causing them to feel threatened.

In other words, the only way to keep them from feeling threatened is for us to "know our place", and stay in it.

The problem is that a lot of people are as concerned about trivialities as inequalities. And some people are worried about what basically amounts to politeness as if it were vital; being miserable and treating other people like dirt is my right as an america. And a lot of people harp on equalities that no longer exist; I've encountered people who talk about slavery as if it were something that happened within living memory (as in, happened here in America in living memory, not in the third world or in nazi germany or something like that); I've done the math; if someone was born at the end of the civil war and lived 120 years they would've died before I was even born with time to spare
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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2016, 11:34:58 pm »
Personally I'm glad about SJWs being taken down a peg, the problem with me is that a Republican win means that their even more toxic equivalemts on the Right (the religious nutbags and the moralizing family values people) will be moved up a peg, and that is unacceptable
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 11:36:33 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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Pergamos

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Re: How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2016, 08:12:19 pm »
I'm sorry, is there a polite way to say, "you're being a bigot"?  (changed racist to bigot to avoid pedantic counterarguments)

And also, it seems to me that most civil and human rights causes have consistently said to call people out on their bigotry? 

Silence = Death, and all that (lord, I'm old enough to remember that one).

"you are acting bigoted" is better than "you are a bigot" in my opinion, it may not actually be more polite but it is more accurate in that it labels the action and not the person.  Everyone does bigoted things sometimes, we need to realize when we do and work to do less of them but labelling someone who does a bigoted thing as a bigot makes redemption much more difficult.