Author Topic: Misinfo Wars  (Read 4975 times)

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Misinfo Wars
« on: November 15, 2016, 02:17:51 am »
We are (and possibly have been for some time - perhaps always have been) in an age where there is more disinformation than information.

True or false?
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2016, 02:20:11 am »
Arguable. You can objectively measure one but the other is tricky without the inevitable required historic HA HA to nail it. 

Your opinion?
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Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2016, 05:35:24 am »
Arguable. You can objectively measure one but the other is tricky

Fair point. You can quantify information but accuracy can be a spectrum.

Your opinion?

I think that disinformation is more present than information; however, that is a loose application of the word "disinformation". That is, to say, that reporting which is not opinion disguised as fact is hard to find. Sources of information are too often under the influence of the agendas of those who own them. Reliable sources of information are difficult to find. Applying tests of reliability are as challenging as determining what makes a test of reliability reliable.

On the one hand, I think that a prevalence of disinformation requires constant critical thought and should therefore encourage it. On the other, critical thinking among people seems to be at an all-time low while manipulation of information as a means to an end seems to be at an all-time high.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 05:53:29 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2016, 05:39:08 am »
What's your criteria for reliability of a source?
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

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Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2016, 05:43:55 am »
What's your criteria for reliability of a source?

Critical thinking skills can be learned which, when honed, will set "alarm bells" off in a person's mind as they read through certain kinds of misinformation or poorly-crafted arguments.

I don't think I personally know of any good universal tests for reliability; rather the fewer "alarm bells" which are set off as I read something, the more probably reliable I assume it might be.

Of course, by "reliable", I don't mean to infer imply that the information is necessarily accurate, just that it is not deliberately, willfully, or unwittingly distorted.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:38:27 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 07:15:15 am »
What's your criteria for reliability of a source?

Critical thinking skills can be learned which, when honed, will set "alarm bells" off in a person's mind as they read through certain kinds of misinformation or poorly-crafted arguments.

I don't think I personally know of any good universal tests for reliability; rather the fewer "alarm bells" which are set off as I read something, the more probably reliable I assume it might be.

Of course, by "reliable", I don't mean to infer that the information is necessarily accurate, just that it is not deliberately, willfully, or unwittingly distorted.

One person's critical thinking is another's brainwashing. That "alarm bell" can be rigged in all kinds of ways, confirmation bias being the most common probably. How can you define these critical thinking skills you speak of and identify them in a source well enough to judge?

also...

Quote
Of course, by "reliable", I don't mean to infer that the information is necessarily accurate, just that it is not deliberately, willfully, or unwittingly distorted.

I'm not trying to be a mean ass, but you're not really making sense.

I'm not sure you meant "infer", but more importantly you just kinda debased the concept of reliability by talking talking about accuracy not being important as long as the info isn't "distorted" by intent or accident.

I think you're lost friend.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 07:18:34 am »
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:39:29 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2016, 07:33:30 am »
http://archive.is/QLv7r

 :? Replies to honest query with link to smug article about how folks don't do their homework before sharing. So much for discourse.

Have fun with that. I think you're in for QUITE the experience here.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2016, 07:34:41 am »
One person's critical thinking is another's brainwashing.

Logic is not generally open to interpretation. Similarly, critical thinking is an academic subject and an intellectual discipline. Argumentative fallacies are plentiful and well-documented. It's not something that changes radically depending on your perspective; one either is or is not an effective critical thinker.

Quote
I'm not sure you meant "infer"

Sorry, I meant "imply". It's late and I've got a pounding headache. I appreciate the correction.

Quote
but more importantly you just kinda debased the concept of reliability by talking talking about accuracy not being important as long as the info isn't "distorted" by intent or accident.

This depends entirely on how you define "reliable". Can I rely on a news source to at least be doing their best job at reporting objective truth? If so, then I consider it a reliable source. Inaccuracies are bound to happen, but for me, a "reliable" source of information is one that actively attempts to minimize those inaccuracies.

The definition of reliability isn't limited to accuracy; it can be applied also to honesty.

Quote
I think you're lost friend.

And I think that's a snap judgment.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:41:03 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2016, 07:36:26 am »

 :? Replies to honest query with link to smug article about how folks don't do their homework before sharing. So much for discourse.

Have fun with that. I think you're in for QUITE the experience here.

That wasn't a direct response to you, just something I felt was relevant to the thread as a whole. I apologize for the confusion; hopefully by now you've seen my actual reply to your post.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:51:47 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 08:19:46 am »
Quote
Quote
I think you're lost friend.

And I think that's a snap judgment.

 :lulz:  :cn:

Fair enough. Welcome to PD.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 12:54:40 pm »
I don't think there's any more disinfo than info.

I think the ease in which to spread both has increased dramatically. From there, you just have to realize that sensationalist fake stuff that appeals to your current worldview is going to be a lot more popular than pedestrian true stuff that challenges it.

Case in point: Fake news that the Pope endorsed Trump was shared at least twice as much than the real news about his tax returns.

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 03:15:10 pm »
I don't think there's any more disinfo than info.

I think the ease in which to spread both has increased dramatically. From there, you just have to realize that sensationalist fake stuff that appeals to your current worldview is going to be a lot more popular than pedestrian true stuff that challenges it.

Case in point: Fake news that the Pope endorsed Trump was shared at least twice as much than the real news about his tax returns.

If "true info" is more mediasexy than "disinfo" why do you still think that they are equally distributed. Isn't the inclination to consume treats rather than veggies?
If the answer is Donald J Trump then it must have been a fucking stupid question.
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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 03:26:17 pm »
You may need to rephrase that.

My post says that truth is less media sexy than disinfo.

Perhaps my first sentence could be amended to "I don't think there's any more disinfo than info than there was previously."  I'm saying that in my opinion, there isn't an increase in disinfo, I'm saying it's much easier to Like/Share/Retweet things, and disinfo plays into that ease.

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Re: Misinfo Wars
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 04:42:13 pm »
You may need to rephrase that.

My post says that truth is less media sexy than disinfo.

Perhaps my first sentence could be amended to "I don't think there's any more disinfo than info than there was previously."  I'm saying that in my opinion, there isn't an increase in disinfo, I'm saying it's much easier to Like/Share/Retweet things, and disinfo plays into that ease.
Oops, yeah  :oops: sorry.
I still don't get why you are rejecting that disinfo may be more prevalent than it was. I guess I am asking what your opinion is based on. My perception, for what its worth, is that it is increasingly prevalent. The "niching" of news to feed particular audiences suggests to me that the appetite for partial and distorted news is a growth area. I'm a generation older than you and I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable about the quality [accuracy, impartiality, balance, just generally competent journalism] of even mainstream news outlets. When you add the "Breitbartization" of news and information, it just feels to me like disinfo is the info of the 21st C. and since you are obviously coming at this with a different perspective I was wondering why your take is different.
If the answer is Donald J Trump then it must have been a fucking stupid question.
Trump cultists; "and some, I assume, are good people"
Collusion??? ~ "If it truly was a nothingburger, there’s nothing here, why not open the kimono?”