Author Topic: The Swing of the Pendulum  (Read 5308 times)

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6336
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2016, 12:35:15 am »
What about the future? 2015 saw a 67% increase in reported anti-Islamic hate crimes overall. A hypothetically Truly Evil Trump Presidency, given carte blanche to spout total hatred, would have to ramp up attacks by 10,000% in order to give each Muslim even a 1% chance of being assaulted during the course of a year. That's the motivational power of about 5,500 WTC attacks.

This is not to dismiss the fact that stricter immigration policies could have a measurable effect on what are already poor religious and racial relations in the country, but with these stats in mind, it's no wonder that imagining it will literally be the Fourth Reich is necessary in order to sustain that level of fear.

I think the final dot to connect might be what a Trump/GOP administration will do IRL with all this false fear.

Which false fear? The false fear of foreign attacks by Islamic extremists on U.S. soil, or the false fear that U.S. citizens will suddenly start getting deported/arrested/murdered en masse?
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Salty

  • Anarcho-Kardashian, Prophet
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 71640
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2016, 12:35:31 am »
There's nothing more comforting to abuse survivors than statistics telling them how safe they are.

You got more of a chance of getting into a car accident than you have of getting gay bashed, so quit being such a little bitch.
         /
:mullet:
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2016, 12:51:24 am »
The number of reported hate crimes is unlikely to be less than or equal to the actual number of hate crimes occurring. Unless someone is seriously injured or killed, there is always the possibility that they will "shrug it off" rather than face further retaliation by seeking relief through law enforcement. Also low-level harassment does not get quantified, and can significantly impact the victims.
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

Salty

  • Anarcho-Kardashian, Prophet
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 71640
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2016, 12:56:58 am »
In a systemically racist society, you can always be sure law enforcement will keep careful track of all hate crimes.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6336
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2016, 02:07:40 am »
The number of reported hate crimes is unlikely to be less than or equal to the actual number of hate crimes occurring. Unless someone is seriously injured or killed, there is always the possibility that they will "shrug it off" rather than face further retaliation by seeking relief through law enforcement. Also low-level harassment does not get quantified, and can significantly impact the victims.

Even if the margin of error is 100% (a ridiculous allowance), then the odds of being a victim would only rise from 0.01% to 0.02%.

Is my math exact? Of course not. But it still provides a pretty clear illustration of just how rarely actual hate-crimes occur. Population concentrations guarantee that the crimes themselves will tend to occur in geographic clusters, obviously, but when violence happens in New York and you live in L.A., it's still going to feel like it happened next door to you because of how fast news travels.

And that takes us back to the discussion about the ratio of information to its dissemination.

Low-level harassment is a problem, but it's not something to fear. When people talk of fear, they talk about being assaulted, put into concentration camps, or kicked out of the country. "I fear for my friends of X background" doesn't generally mean "I'm really concerned my friends of X background are going to start getting rude comments in the coffee line at Starbucks." Nobody protests an election to prevent that.

This is America; we all grow up with low-level harassment of some kind. Black kids used to kick my ass for wearing my Dad's army jacket at school during the winter. Did I blame it on them for acting like they had some kind of monopoly on fatigues as a fashion statement? No, I blamed it on poor race relations and resentment that managed to trickle down through the generation gaps. (I'm also lucky enough to have had a dad who instilled in me that it was wrong to retaliate against prejudice with equal prejudice.)

Does it make me insensitive to suggest that people try to wrestle away the fear by examining the statistics rather than how the media makes them feel about those statistics? I don't know; I'm not a psychologist. If it were up to me, I'd nominate President Big Cuddly Teddy Bear to read us all a State of the Union Bedtime Story and assure everyone that things are going to be okay.

And things are going to be okay, but there's probably too much value in having people think otherwise.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2016, 02:33:14 am »
I'm really scared there's historical precedence that a government such as has been elected will pass legislation that will limit, roll back, limit, and prevent the human and civil rights of much of my friends and family.

In addition, such legislation, and even the debate of such, will continue to set a social context that will treat my friends and family as lesser, and indeed strengthen it.

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6336
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2016, 02:53:15 am »
I'm really scared there's historical precedence that a government such as has been elected will pass legislation that will limit, roll back, limit, and prevent the human and civil rights of much of my friends and family.

In addition, such legislation, and even the debate of such, will continue to set a social context that will treat my friends and family as lesser, and indeed strengthen it.

If I had these fears, I'd find myself asking the following questions:

Is this a general fear based on the polarized and often hyperbolic rhetoric generated by what have become increasingly ideological news outlets, or is it a specific concern based on actual policy proposals? Is this legislation hypothetical, or does it have some basis?

If the fear is shaped by how I get my news, have I sought out enough news sources that challenge my predispositions?

What is the "historical precedence," and is it truly an appropriate comparison? What are the arguments other people have attempted to form both for and against the comparison?

Answering these kinds of question is not easy. It can lead to a rabbit hole where it becomes increasingly difficult to figure out what is and what is not true. Giving into the natural state of fear can actually be much more comfortable; at least then you have convictions.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 02:55:09 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2016, 03:20:21 am »
It has basis.

Cf: The Twentieth Century.






I mean, c'mon.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82702
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2016, 03:51:21 am »
Ah, yes, the old "buck up, everybody gets harassed" response. That shit never gets old.
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6336
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2016, 04:18:47 am »
Ah, yes, the old "buck up, everybody gets harassed" response. That shit never gets old.

You'd be surprised at what some people consider "harassment" in the 21st Century.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Pope Pelvis Flirtini

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 6336
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2016, 04:21:40 am »
It has basis.

Cf: The Twentieth Century.






I mean, c'mon.

Not much of an argument there. Sorry, but if you're trying to convince me of something, you've not. If you've convinced yourself... then my only advice is to go right ahead and be afraid.

be very afraid

After all, nothing motivates war more than hate, and nothing produces hate more than fear. Perhaps if you're more afraid than THEY are, you'll win the war!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 04:28:03 am by chinagreenelvis »
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

MMIX

  • Доктор мом
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 16620
  • FUNEX? S, VFX. FUNEM? S, VFM
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2016, 11:15:37 am »
Ah, yes, the old "buck up, everybody gets harassed" response. That shit never gets old.

You'd be surprised at what some people consider "harassment" in the 21st Century.

So I don't know what you think you are saying there but what I am actually hearing is that you are one of those good 'ole boys who harasses whichever group you think it is ok to hassle and then accuses them of having no sense of humour. Odd position for a guy who claims to be a comedian; I'm pretty sure that there aren't too many people in your audience here who find that approach generates a lot of laughs
even though there is even an emote here for the discordian concept of "horrormirth"  :horrormirth:  We'll laugh at pretty much anything, except you of course.
If the answer is Donald J Trump then it must have been a fucking stupid question.
Trump cultists; "and some, I assume, are good people"
Collusion??? ~ "If it truly was a nothingburger, there’s nothing here, why not open the kimono?”

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2016, 02:42:58 pm »
Muslim registry
Elimination of Trans* rights
Overturning Obergefell v. Hodges
Massive restrictions on abortion


All not just plausible, all stated intentions.

Please note that I am a non-muslim white male, married to a woman.  All the above concerns me even though I won't be personally affected by any of it.

Because it's not about me.  And, I'm not an asshole.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2016, 02:47:58 pm »
There's nothing more comforting to abuse survivors than statistics telling them how safe they are.

You got more of a chance of getting into a car accident than you have of getting gay bashed, so quit being such a little bitch.
         /
:mullet:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: The Swing of the Pendulum
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2016, 02:48:21 pm »
In a systemically racist society, you can always be sure law enforcement will keep careful track of all hate crimes.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.