Author Topic: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode  (Read 3967 times)

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2017, 05:25:48 pm »
Ok, without my former glibness, my main problem with the JDs isn't that they're criticizing the Dems from the Left.  I think the Dems are too centrist, and too willing to concede to the right without fighting.  A strong progressive force pulling Left would be beneficial, IMO.

My problem is they seem to be attacking more than persuading, using the same tactics (and often, the same arguments) that the Right uses.  I simply don't feel that's an effective way to go. 

Yes, this. Democrats already have a precarious coalition, and the tone taken by the JDs only fans the flames of division. I understand that most traditional Democrats are not going to abandon the party (although some clearly did so last year), but continuing this feud and the bad blood between the Clinton camp and the Sanders camp (or whatever they're evolving into) will drive many new and younger Democrats away from unity with a party they're being trained to see as "corporatist" and corrupt in exactly the same language that was used to smear Clinton.

And while the JD's platform is quite economically progressive, there is no direct invocation of issues pertaining to race, gender, or sexual identity. If it isn't already a front for the worst elements of the Bernie Bros, it could quickly become a haven for them.
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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2017, 07:18:50 pm »
Ok, without my former glibness, my main problem with the JDs isn't that they're criticizing the Dems from the Left.  I think the Dems are too centrist, and too willing to concede to the right without fighting.  A strong progressive force pulling Left would be beneficial, IMO.

My problem is they seem to be attacking more than persuading, using the same tactics (and often, the same arguments) that the Right uses.  I simply don't feel that's an effective way to go.

So, to sum up:

There are quite a few power-tripping, insult-flinging, narrow-minded, insular, total shit people in the Democratic party.

That is a completely legitimate observation, but my question here is, how is this new? I feel like last year around this time I was being lambasted for daring to point this out.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2017, 07:27:52 pm »
Maybe not so much "new" as "you're a prophet, and a lot of people are only catching up now and see the way this behavior can fracture a voting bloc"

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2017, 12:20:51 am »
Ok, without my former glibness, my main problem with the JDs isn't that they're criticizing the Dems from the Left.  I think the Dems are too centrist, and too willing to concede to the right without fighting.  A strong progressive force pulling Left would be beneficial, IMO.

My problem is they seem to be attacking more than persuading, using the same tactics (and often, the same arguments) that the Right uses.  I simply don't feel that's an effective way to go.

I think they're fighting in the lifeboat.
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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2017, 12:57:59 am »
Maybe not so much "new" as "you're a prophet, and a lot of people are only catching up now and see the way this behavior can fracture a voting bloc"

Hahaha, OK, I can accept that.

The Democratic party has always been full of sanctimonious, lefter-than-you closet racists and socialist ponytail misogynists, from my perspective, but I guess they didn't start feeling safe about being totally open about it until the "alt-right" started openly supporting the KKK, thereby upping the ante.

Did you know that the (non-chartered so most of the voting ones register Democrat) Socialist Party's official party line in Oregon is (and has been for several years) that there is no institutionalized misogyny? That's right... sexism and racism aren't real problems, but mere byproducts of the Real Problem, classism.

That's basically who we're dealing with.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2017, 01:08:31 am »
Note that I'm not saying that classism isn't a real problem. It's a real problem and a huge one. I am simply saying that there are and always have been a lot of people both in the Democratic Party and in other coalitions on the Left that use classism as a fulcrum point that allows them to deny and ignore women's issues and racial issues so they never have to confront their own sexist and racist attitudes, or acknowledge them in others.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2017, 01:50:47 am »
Note that I'm not saying that classism isn't a real problem. It's a real problem and a huge one. I am simply saying that there are and always have been a lot of people both in the Democratic Party and in other coalitions on the Left that use classism as a fulcrum point that allows them to deny and ignore women's issues and racial issues so they never have to confront their own sexist and racist attitudes, or acknowledge them in others.

This is absolutely true. Maybe I just don't words very good because I could swear this is directly adjacent to and implied by my original point.
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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2017, 10:03:12 pm »
Note that I'm not saying that classism isn't a real problem. It's a real problem and a huge one. I am simply saying that there are and always have been a lot of people both in the Democratic Party and in other coalitions on the Left that use classism as a fulcrum point that allows them to deny and ignore women's issues and racial issues so they never have to confront their own sexist and racist attitudes, or acknowledge them in others.

This is absolutely true. Maybe I just don't words very good because I could swear this is directly adjacent to and implied by my original point.

It's totally possible that I just failed to pick up on that. I guess my main point is that I don't feel like anything particularly new is going on.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2017, 04:04:15 pm »
Wasn't that a primary concern with Bernie? He insisted that sexism and racism would vanish as soon as economic inequality was eliminated.

I didn't buy it then, I don't buy it now.

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2017, 12:09:23 am »
Wasn't that a primary concern with Bernie? He insisted that sexism and racism would vanish as soon as economic inequality was eliminated.

I didn't buy it then, I don't buy it now.

Yes, he tended to be dismissive on those issues, particularly early in his campaign, which cost him a great deal of support among women and black voters. This is something we discussed quite a bit, but Bernie supporters refused to acknowledge that those weaknesses were hurting his campaign.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2017, 05:42:06 am »
I'm the only one who got what they wanted this election.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2017, 10:19:00 am »
I'm the only one who got what they wanted this election.

Yeah, but I have learned to stop worrying and love the imminent apocalypse.

Mostly because it has occurred to me that the only thing on Earth that has a negative value is human life.  By which I mean the Earth has a carrying capacity (currently) of 2 billion people, and we just sailed past 7.5 billion people.  A surplus of 5.5 billion people, which is 2 billion more total people that existed in total when I plopped out into this mess and became part of the problem.

This is utterly unsupportable, and it's all going to come crashing down very shortly (ie, when the population reaches about 10.5  billion people, which is the point where we simply cannot move food fast enough to feed anyone, and then the panic and chaos will finish the job), so none of this shit matters in the slightest.  No matter what your beliefs are, or what convictions you have, you have about a 1/80 chance of being alive in 20 years (optimistically speaking, and your odds are WAY worse if you're over 35), and even if you are, politics will be the last fucking thing on your mind.  I personally take comfort in the knowledge that I will certainly be dust in the wind by then, and will not have to suffer through the yelling and bullshit that will come along with the Big Whoops.

In the meantime, though, we can listen to people who claim that their ideology will ensure that the correct people die, knowing full well that they're full of shit, or we can instead choose to listen to street corner preachers about how awful it all is and what terrible people we all are, knowing that they are also full of shit.

None of it matters.
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- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2017, 10:35:35 am »
I'm the only one who got what they wanted this election.

Yeah, but I have learned to stop worrying and love the imminent apocalypse.

Mostly because it has occurred to me that the only thing on Earth that has a negative value is human life.  By which I mean the Earth has a carrying capacity (currently) of 2 billion people, and we just sailed past 7.5 billion people.  A surplus of 5.5 billion people, which is 2 billion more total people that existed in total when I plopped out into this mess and became part of the problem.

This is utterly unsupportable, and it's all going to come crashing down very shortly (ie, when the population reaches about 10.5  billion people, which is the point where we simply cannot move food fast enough to feed anyone, and then the panic and chaos will finish the job), so none of this shit matters in the slightest.  No matter what your beliefs are, or what convictions you have, you have about a 1/80 chance of being alive in 20 years (optimistically speaking, and your odds are WAY worse if you're over 35), and even if you are, politics will be the last fucking thing on your mind.  I personally take comfort in the knowledge that I will certainly be dust in the wind by then, and will not have to suffer through the yelling and bullshit that will come along with the Big Whoops.

In the meantime, though, we can listen to people who claim that their ideology will ensure that the correct people die, knowing full well that they're full of shit, or we can instead choose to listen to street corner preachers about how awful it all is and what terrible people we all are, knowing that they are also full of shit.

None of it matters.

Please don't ever die.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2017, 10:48:27 am »
I'm the only one who got what they wanted this election.

Yeah, but I have learned to stop worrying and love the imminent apocalypse.

Mostly because it has occurred to me that the only thing on Earth that has a negative value is human life.  By which I mean the Earth has a carrying capacity (currently) of 2 billion people, and we just sailed past 7.5 billion people.  A surplus of 5.5 billion people, which is 2 billion more total people that existed in total when I plopped out into this mess and became part of the problem.

This is utterly unsupportable, and it's all going to come crashing down very shortly (ie, when the population reaches about 10.5  billion people, which is the point where we simply cannot move food fast enough to feed anyone, and then the panic and chaos will finish the job), so none of this shit matters in the slightest.  No matter what your beliefs are, or what convictions you have, you have about a 1/80 chance of being alive in 20 years (optimistically speaking, and your odds are WAY worse if you're over 35), and even if you are, politics will be the last fucking thing on your mind.  I personally take comfort in the knowledge that I will certainly be dust in the wind by then, and will not have to suffer through the yelling and bullshit that will come along with the Big Whoops.

In the meantime, though, we can listen to people who claim that their ideology will ensure that the correct people die, knowing full well that they're full of shit, or we can instead choose to listen to street corner preachers about how awful it all is and what terrible people we all are, knowing that they are also full of shit.

None of it matters.

Please don't ever die.

My point is, it's far more profitable to live for the moment, and fight for what you think is right (this is literally all you have left) for its own sake, than to spend all fucking day trying to rack up your social consciousness score for the approval of, or validation from, other dumbfucks crawling around in the cesspool we like to call the internet superhighway.

It's as fucking pointless as the Koch brothers trying to increase their wealth.

You can be an exemplar as you fall off the end of the clanking conveyor belt, or you can jockey for position as the most famously enlightened thing to fall into the meat grinder.  The result is precisely the same, except that the former means that you were at least a fucking biped at the end, instead of a stupid fucking human.



" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Scott The Cuck

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Re: Democrats Decide to Just Go Ahead and Implode
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2017, 12:42:08 pm »
I'm the only one who got what they wanted this election.

Yeah, but I have learned to stop worrying and love the imminent apocalypse.

Mostly because it has occurred to me that the only thing on Earth that has a negative value is human life.  By which I mean the Earth has a carrying capacity (currently) of 2 billion people, and we just sailed past 7.5 billion people.  A surplus of 5.5 billion people, which is 2 billion more total people that existed in total when I plopped out into this mess and became part of the problem.

This is utterly unsupportable, and it's all going to come crashing down very shortly (ie, when the population reaches about 10.5  billion people, which is the point where we simply cannot move food fast enough to feed anyone, and then the panic and chaos will finish the job), so none of this shit matters in the slightest.  No matter what your beliefs are, or what convictions you have, you have about a 1/80 chance of being alive in 20 years (optimistically speaking, and your odds are WAY worse if you're over 35), and even if you are, politics will be the last fucking thing on your mind.  I personally take comfort in the knowledge that I will certainly be dust in the wind by then, and will not have to suffer through the yelling and bullshit that will come along with the Big Whoops.

In the meantime, though, we can listen to people who claim that their ideology will ensure that the correct people die, knowing full well that they're full of shit, or we can instead choose to listen to street corner preachers about how awful it all is and what terrible people we all are, knowing that they are also full of shit.

None of it matters.

We should have listened to Lemmy.
It is my duty as a parent to stop the the weed basket of the east from bringing its variety of societal ills.

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