Author Topic: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise  (Read 2422 times)

Nephew Twiddleton

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 05:46:40 pm »
I have a Mandela effect thing, that I'm not sure anyone else had. I could have sworn that someone different played Winston Zeddemore in Ghostbusters II, because Ernie Hudson passed on reprising the role. It would have been reasonable to do so, because as I would find out later, he wasn't very happy with how downplayed his character was in the first movie and how it didn't really help his career that much as was promised. However, Hudson definitely played Zeddemore twice.

I remember Winston having a much larger role in Ghostbusters than he actually does in either movie, but I think it's because I watched the cartoon version a lot as a kid. But I never paid that much attention to the behind the scenes stuff.

Now I want to watch the Ghostbusters again just to see.

There are a LOT of movie and media Mandelas. They even say folks remember movies that never existed like "Shazam!", a movie about a genie named  Shazam that had Sinbad cast as the genie. Never happened, but I personally remember the movie clear as day from when I worked in a video rental place around 16 years ago.

There's also a LOT of Star Wars ones. C3po's silver leg is one. Another is the infamous quote "Luke, I am your father" is now "No. I am your father". There's even footage of James Earl Jones repeating the line with "Luke" in it on a daytime talk show. You'd think he would know.

There's a James Bond one where Jaws meets a woman who smiles at him and they just click for no reason. I never saw the "original" but folks swear she used to have a mouth full of braces and the metal teeth thing was their motivation in the scene.

The first time Winston uses a proton pack in the movie is at Gozer's Temple. That is the only time you see him busting anything.
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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 05:48:00 pm »
I don't know if this qualifies (probably not), but I remember as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s playing these "choose your own adventure" games via telephone hotlines. I was curious one day and decided to look them up online, but they're not mentioned anywhere I can find them (or my google-fu is poor) except on one forum post somewhere with no replies. Maybe the Time Lords cancelled their existence.

That sounds familiar, but I'm not sure if that's because it seems plausible that that would have existed at some point.
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 08:58:44 pm »
I don't know if this qualifies (probably not), but I remember as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s playing these "choose your own adventure" games via telephone hotlines. I was curious one day and decided to look them up online, but they're not mentioned anywhere I can find them (or my google-fu is poor) except on one forum post somewhere with no replies. Maybe the Time Lords cancelled their existence.

 :lulz: See and I've never heard of any such thing. We must be from different universes of origin!
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 09:01:11 pm »
I have a Mandela effect thing, that I'm not sure anyone else had. I could have sworn that someone different played Winston Zeddemore in Ghostbusters II, because Ernie Hudson passed on reprising the role. It would have been reasonable to do so, because as I would find out later, he wasn't very happy with how downplayed his character was in the first movie and how it didn't really help his career that much as was promised. However, Hudson definitely played Zeddemore twice.

I remember Winston having a much larger role in Ghostbusters than he actually does in either movie, but I think it's because I watched the cartoon version a lot as a kid. But I never paid that much attention to the behind the scenes stuff.

Now I want to watch the Ghostbusters again just to see.

There are a LOT of movie and media Mandelas. They even say folks remember movies that never existed like "Shazam!", a movie about a genie named  Shazam that had Sinbad cast as the genie. Never happened, but I personally remember the movie clear as day from when I worked in a video rental place around 16 years ago.

There's also a LOT of Star Wars ones. C3po's silver leg is one. Another is the infamous quote "Luke, I am your father" is now "No. I am your father". There's even footage of James Earl Jones repeating the line with "Luke" in it on a daytime talk show. You'd think he would know.

There's a James Bond one where Jaws meets a woman who smiles at him and they just click for no reason. I never saw the "original" but folks swear she used to have a mouth full of braces and the metal teeth thing was their motivation in the scene.

The first time Winston uses a proton pack in the movie is at Gozer's Temple. That is the only time you see him busting anything.

That can not be right. Maybe it is, but I could swear there were transition scenes with him carrying a pack.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

Nephew Twiddleton

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 10:22:17 pm »
I have a Mandela effect thing, that I'm not sure anyone else had. I could have sworn that someone different played Winston Zeddemore in Ghostbusters II, because Ernie Hudson passed on reprising the role. It would have been reasonable to do so, because as I would find out later, he wasn't very happy with how downplayed his character was in the first movie and how it didn't really help his career that much as was promised. However, Hudson definitely played Zeddemore twice.

I remember Winston having a much larger role in Ghostbusters than he actually does in either movie, but I think it's because I watched the cartoon version a lot as a kid. But I never paid that much attention to the behind the scenes stuff.

Now I want to watch the Ghostbusters again just to see.

There are a LOT of movie and media Mandelas. They even say folks remember movies that never existed like "Shazam!", a movie about a genie named  Shazam that had Sinbad cast as the genie. Never happened, but I personally remember the movie clear as day from when I worked in a video rental place around 16 years ago.

There's also a LOT of Star Wars ones. C3po's silver leg is one. Another is the infamous quote "Luke, I am your father" is now "No. I am your father". There's even footage of James Earl Jones repeating the line with "Luke" in it on a daytime talk show. You'd think he would know.

There's a James Bond one where Jaws meets a woman who smiles at him and they just click for no reason. I never saw the "original" but folks swear she used to have a mouth full of braces and the metal teeth thing was their motivation in the scene.

The first time Winston uses a proton pack in the movie is at Gozer's Temple. That is the only time you see him busting anything.

That can not be right. Maybe it is, but I could swear there were transition scenes with him carrying a pack.

No transition scenes. The first time he busts something on screen, it's a god.
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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2017, 02:08:09 am »
I don't know if this qualifies (probably not), but I remember as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s playing these "choose your own adventure" games via telephone hotlines. I was curious one day and decided to look them up online, but they're not mentioned anywhere I can find them (or my google-fu is poor) except on one forum post somewhere with no replies. Maybe the Time Lords cancelled their existence.

I've had things where I've tried to remember their names or look them up but was unable to find them for years (and I then I suddenly found most of them over the course of the previous year. For those curious these included the movie "Soulkeeper", the cartoon "The Halloween Tree", the book "The Summer I Shrunk My Grandmother", and the published D&D encounter "The Shrine of Gath-Mal)

Now as for the bible you also have to keep in mind that there's at least twenty-something translations, take a look:

http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/1-2.htm

Also the King James version while famous is in many places a very poor translation. In the Book of Revelation for instance it has the personification of famine giving out food essentially for free.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2017, 04:35:07 pm »
I don't know if this qualifies (probably not), but I remember as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s playing these "choose your own adventure" games via telephone hotlines. I was curious one day and decided to look them up online, but they're not mentioned anywhere I can find them (or my google-fu is poor) except on one forum post somewhere with no replies. Maybe the Time Lords cancelled their existence.

I've had things where I've tried to remember their names or look them up but was unable to find them for years (and I then I suddenly found most of them over the course of the previous year. For those curious these included the movie "Soulkeeper", the cartoon "The Halloween Tree", the book "The Summer I Shrunk My Grandmother", and the published D&D encounter "The Shrine of Gath-Mal)

Now as for the bible you also have to keep in mind that there's at least twenty-something translations, take a look:

http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/1-2.htm

Also the King James version while famous is in many places a very poor translation. In the Book of Revelation for instance it has the personification of famine giving out food essentially for free.
While I agree the KJV is shit translation, I'm pretty sure this isn't actually in it.
 :cn:
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2017, 05:18:13 pm »
I don't know if this qualifies (probably not), but I remember as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s playing these "choose your own adventure" games via telephone hotlines. I was curious one day and decided to look them up online, but they're not mentioned anywhere I can find them (or my google-fu is poor) except on one forum post somewhere with no replies. Maybe the Time Lords cancelled their existence.

I've had things where I've tried to remember their names or look them up but was unable to find them for years (and I then I suddenly found most of them over the course of the previous year. For those curious these included the movie "Soulkeeper", the cartoon "The Halloween Tree", the book "The Summer I Shrunk My Grandmother", and the published D&D encounter "The Shrine of Gath-Mal)

Now as for the bible you also have to keep in mind that there's at least twenty-something translations, take a look:

http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/1-2.htm

Also the King James version while famous is in many places a very poor translation. In the Book of Revelation for instance it has the personification of famine giving out food essentially for free.
While I agree the KJV is shit translation, I'm pretty sure this isn't actually in it.
 :cn:

http://biblehub.com/revelation/6-6.htm

compare:

New International Version:
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "Two pounds of wheat for a day's wages, and six pounds of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

Berean Litetal Bible
And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, "A choenix of wheat for a denarius, and three choenixes of barley for a denarius; and you should not injure the oil and the wine."

New Living Translation
And I heard a voice from among the four living beings say, "A loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley will cost a day's pay. And don't waste the olive oil and wine."

King James
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, 'A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.'

Now, I checked, and I'm pretty sure the British penny is as worthless as the American penny (can one of you brits verify?) and also I did a google search and apparently some of the really miserable third world sweatshop workers get as little as one cent an hour, so if we're really generous the King James Bible is off by a factor of ten
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2017, 05:25:51 pm »
well it might have made sense 400 years ago. there were probably plenty of people earned a penny a day (or less).
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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2017, 05:28:29 pm »
I could have sworn that someone different played Winston Zeddemore in Ghostbusters II, because Ernie Hudson passed on reprising the role.

When I read this sentence the first time I accidentally read it as if there was a comma between "on" and "reprising". That would've been a great Ghostbusters movie.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 06:02:40 pm »
I don't know if this qualifies (probably not), but I remember as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s playing these "choose your own adventure" games via telephone hotlines. I was curious one day and decided to look them up online, but they're not mentioned anywhere I can find them (or my google-fu is poor) except on one forum post somewhere with no replies. Maybe the Time Lords cancelled their existence.

I've had things where I've tried to remember their names or look them up but was unable to find them for years (and I then I suddenly found most of them over the course of the previous year. For those curious these included the movie "Soulkeeper", the cartoon "The Halloween Tree", the book "The Summer I Shrunk My Grandmother", and the published D&D encounter "The Shrine of Gath-Mal)

Now as for the bible you also have to keep in mind that there's at least twenty-something translations, take a look:

http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/1-2.htm

Also the King James version while famous is in many places a very poor translation. In the Book of Revelation for instance it has the personification of famine giving out food essentially for free.
While I agree the KJV is shit translation, I'm pretty sure this isn't actually in it.
 :cn:

http://biblehub.com/revelation/6-6.htm

compare:

New International Version:
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "Two pounds of wheat for a day's wages, and six pounds of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

Berean Litetal Bible
And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, "A choenix of wheat for a denarius, and three choenixes of barley for a denarius; and you should not injure the oil and the wine."

New Living Translation
And I heard a voice from among the four living beings say, "A loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley will cost a day's pay. And don't waste the olive oil and wine."

King James
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, 'A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.'

Now, I checked, and I'm pretty sure the British penny is as worthless as the American penny (can one of you brits verify?) and also I did a google search and apparently some of the really miserable third world sweatshop workers get as little as one cent an hour, so if we're really generous the King James Bible is off by a factor of ten

That scripture is actually saying it will be terribly expensive for basic things like bread, and stuff like wine and olive oil will be absurdly expensive. Bread, olive oil and wine were the staples of the day.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 06:20:55 pm »
They have been doing this since the council of Nicaea in 325. To a greater or lesser extent.

It really annoys the fundies when you argue that their "word of god" is a party political broadcast. Take those Jehovah's Witness nutters, the original text was along the lines of not CONSUMING blood.

Need to find the citation, but I remember reading that there was an uproar over the King James text when it first came out, the papists clicked that the text had been changed to a subtle support for king over church.

The Watchtower Society are some crazy fuckers. I'd like to see if there's any buzz from them on this, but don't care to dig into their shit to find out.

As for the KJV drawing criticism... not surprising. I always thought that raising one particular translation to the status of "Infallible Word Of God" was pretty much idolatry. But folks disagreed with fire back then.

JW's have their own bible, the New Word Translation. To their minds, it is by far the most accurate translation. Granted, the guys that did the translation had no formal training in Hebrew or Greek and there are some seriously questionable translations that seem to be more about confirming their doctrine than having an exact translation. For example, John 1:1 is generally translated to something like "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Now, JW"s claim the Word is Jesus, and that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God. So in the NWT they translated John 1:1 as "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was a God." They claim that the Greek includes "an indefinate article a"... but of course every Greek scholar in existence seems to think this is nutty as Jif (or Jiffy) peanut butter. They also translated the scriptures to include "Jehovah" all over the place, where most translations have GOD or LORD (all caps).

The scripture from Isiah, about the Wolf and Lamb is believed by JW's, as literal. Their belief is that in Eden, all God's living creatures were basically vegan until the Flood. After the flood, veggies weren't as awesome as they were before, so God told Noah humans had to start eating animals (but not the blood). They believe that after Armageddon, humans and animals will return to being vegans.

I'm guessing that means sharks are gonna live on seaweed or something...
 
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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 06:43:54 pm »
They have been doing this since the council of Nicaea in 325. To a greater or lesser extent.

It really annoys the fundies when you argue that their "word of god" is a party political broadcast. Take those Jehovah's Witness nutters, the original text was along the lines of not CONSUMING blood.

Need to find the citation, but I remember reading that there was an uproar over the King James text when it first came out, the papists clicked that the text had been changed to a subtle support for king over church.

The Watchtower Society are some crazy fuckers. I'd like to see if there's any buzz from them on this, but don't care to dig into their shit to find out.

As for the KJV drawing criticism... not surprising. I always thought that raising one particular translation to the status of "Infallible Word Of God" was pretty much idolatry. But folks disagreed with fire back then.

JW's have their own bible, the New Word Translation. To their minds, it is by far the most accurate translation. Granted, the guys that did the translation had no formal training in Hebrew or Greek and there are some seriously questionable translations that seem to be more about confirming their doctrine than having an exact translation. For example, John 1:1 is generally translated to something like "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Now, JW"s claim the Word is Jesus, and that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God. So in the NWT they translated John 1:1 as "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was a God." They claim that the Greek includes "an indefinate article a"... but of course every Greek scholar in existence seems to think this is nutty as Jif (or Jiffy) peanut butter. They also translated the scriptures to include "Jehovah" all over the place, where most translations have GOD or LORD (all caps).

It was my understanding that a lot of the "LORD"s were indedd a standin for "Jehovah"/"Yahweh" in the original text (though I forget whether that was something that the english translators did or merely something some historians hypothesized to have been done by the people making the greek/hebrew/latin/aramaic copies, the changes thus having been already made prior to the english translation)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 06:47:14 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 06:49:52 pm »
They have been doing this since the council of Nicaea in 325. To a greater or lesser extent.

It really annoys the fundies when you argue that their "word of god" is a party political broadcast. Take those Jehovah's Witness nutters, the original text was along the lines of not CONSUMING blood.

Need to find the citation, but I remember reading that there was an uproar over the King James text when it first came out, the papists clicked that the text had been changed to a subtle support for king over church.

The Watchtower Society are some crazy fuckers. I'd like to see if there's any buzz from them on this, but don't care to dig into their shit to find out.

As for the KJV drawing criticism... not surprising. I always thought that raising one particular translation to the status of "Infallible Word Of God" was pretty much idolatry. But folks disagreed with fire back then.

JW's have their own bible, the New Word Translation. To their minds, it is by far the most accurate translation. Granted, the guys that did the translation had no formal training in Hebrew or Greek and there are some seriously questionable translations that seem to be more about confirming their doctrine than having an exact translation. For example, John 1:1 is generally translated to something like "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Now, JW"s claim the Word is Jesus, and that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God. So in the NWT they translated John 1:1 as "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was a God." They claim that the Greek includes "an indefinate article a"... but of course every Greek scholar in existence seems to think this is nutty as Jif (or Jiffy) peanut butter. They also translated the scriptures to include "Jehovah" all over the place, where most translations have GOD or LORD (all caps).

It was my understanding that a lot of the "LORD"s were indedd a standin for "Jehovah"/"Yahweh"

Yeah, it was used in place of the Tetragrammaton. The reasoning in the JW translation, though, is less about accuracy and more about justification for their name. Isa. 43:10 seems a lot more impressive when it reads "You are my witnesses, is the utterance of Jehovah", instead of "You are my witnesses, is the utterance of the LORD"
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Re: ITT Mandela Effect fuckery biblical or otherwise
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 07:34:33 pm »
I have a Mandela effect thing, that I'm not sure anyone else had. I could have sworn that someone different played Winston Zeddemore in Ghostbusters II, because Ernie Hudson passed on reprising the role. It would have been reasonable to do so, because as I would find out later, he wasn't very happy with how downplayed his character was in the first movie and how it didn't really help his career that much as was promised. However, Hudson definitely played Zeddemore twice.

I remember Winston having a much larger role in Ghostbusters than he actually does in either movie, but I think it's because I watched the cartoon version a lot as a kid. But I never paid that much attention to the behind the scenes stuff.

Now I want to watch the Ghostbusters again just to see.

There are a LOT of movie and media Mandelas. They even say folks remember movies that never existed like "Shazam!", a movie about a genie named  Shazam that had Sinbad cast as the genie. Never happened, but I personally remember the movie clear as day from when I worked in a video rental place around 16 years ago.

The movie was named "Kazaam!", and it starred Shaq, not Sinbad. The misremembered name is explainable by confusion with a similarly named character from "Captain Marvel". The misremembered casting is explainable by the fact that Shaq is really much more famous as an athlete than an actor and they both were big around the same time and have shaved heads and mononymous names beginning with the letter "S"
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 07:39:47 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
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