Author Topic: Windows 10  (Read 265 times)

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Windows 10
« on: November 08, 2017, 10:37:01 am »
I mean, most of the people here facebook, so you may or may not even care anymore, but:

BAIT:  http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/18/windows-10-upgrade-free-to-pirated-windows-users
          http://blog.gsmarena.com/windows-10-last-version-windows-says-microsoft/

HOOK:   https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2373838/microsofts-windows-10-preview-has-permission-to-watch-your-every-move
             https://imgur.com/iHge6RJ

That last link is the most important to carefully look over.  Microsoft is not trying at all to hide the extreme privacy violations inherent in their new Operating System.

If this trend bothers you, you can always try a free alternative like OpenSUSE or Linux Mint or even Zorin OS.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 11:47:08 am »
The Windows "Telemetry" data is an ugly one, there are steps you can take to turn it off but by default it is enabled for most users.

Of the Linux implementations listed, Tails OS is a good one but is committed to privacy.

The web has gotten really ugly over the last few years:
It comes from the same systemic problem that is killing journalism, why Facebook wants to know every detail of you life, why most pages you visit beacon regardless of you having a google / facebook /microsoft account, it comes back to the Freemium model. The need to support your platform through external revenue such as advertising revenue by violating all of your users privacy.

When the product is free, the user is the product, their data is a list of vulnerabilities to allow effective targeting of advertising, it's dangerous because services start to distorts the content you encounter to better shape you for susceptibility to buying specific products.

Your data can be analysed, sold to intelligence agencies who are very good at reattaching that data to the person who generated it.

A scary example of over reach using this data is the following: If you buy tickets for a flight, and close your facebook or even register to new services, you can be automatically placed on a watch list.

The GDPR European data protection act fortunately makes the implicit on-by-default telemetry collection illegal, it has to be opt in instead of opt out, and in all likelihood Microsoft and others will need to wind back on their widespread data harvesting.

I hate social media because of the commodification of every aspect of yourself (reddit sets up users to be auto tagging, liking content they want to see and voting down things they disagree with, autobuilding a advertising targeting profile).

Here at the PD we will never share your data, we wont ever show you adverts as a means of supporting the site (I'll cover the cost and literally pan handle whenever it's too expensive for me). Forums might be a dying format but at least they are one of the few exclusively targeting discussion of ideas and concepts

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 12:58:25 pm »
The most backwards thing about all this is that companies committing the surveillance don't consider it as spying but as product development, or in worst cases, as a service. "You don't need to wrap your tiny head around what you need, let us take care of that".

It won't be long that the advertising algorithms will be so sophisticated, you'll start getting ads for coffins and tombstones a month before your demise.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 02:15:02 pm »
The scariest part of this technological profiling isn't even the adverts, it's where it leads.  Assuming we aren't there already.

I'm talking about kids getting removed from school because their technological profile deemed them antisocial and at a high risk of causing an incident or trying to subvert authority.  I'm talking about getting pulled over for having a tail light out but the cop's computer advises a thorough search of the vehicle because this person's technological profile shows them to favor legalized marijuana or some such bullshit.  I'm talking about police at my door because I got bored one night and looked up "how to escape from prison".

When I was a freshman in highschool I was pulled out of class and suspended from school because the study hall babysitter caught me doodling fictional weapons into an art notebook.  I don't mean guns and explosives, I mean pencil drawings of made-up bladed weapons (like a quad-bladed spin-sword) and blunt weapons and spiked stuff.  I had also drawn various made up monsters and super heroes but it was the weapons that got all the attention.   And this was several human beings seeing this and deciding it was threatening enough to warrant suspension.

Combining this with the overall trend of eroding our freedoms in all other areas as well, and the future looks like it could get quite scary.  Unless, of course, lots and lots of people resist this kind of bullshit en masse with more than just some whining and then moving on.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 02:31:55 pm »
Imagine the day when you discover your kid was moved into a special "motivational" class away from other students because his or her browsing habits or trends or whatever-the-fuck triggered an algorithm that deemed the kid more likely to question what they are taught.  And of course you wouldn't want such questioning to influence the kids who properly sit there and just accept it all.

This kind of thing is VERY VERY CLOSE to reality already.  The fact that there wasn't a huge uproar over PRISM and other blatant privacy bullshit and now Windows 10, it's already pretty damned accepted and allowed.  My instincts tell me the majority may whine and bitch a little and then install it anyway because they can't play the new whatever-game without it or because the bosses at work don't care and told them to.  At which point it becomes old news, and eventually, the new normal, as we focus on worse and worse violations that keep coming.

I'm starting to think the majority will take fucking anything and give only lip service to resisting.  Obviously there's always some outliers that fight or refuse to use anything this bad, but those outliers get viewed as extremists much the way Stallman is/was and the mainstream just bitches about it and then moves on.

I for one will not allow any device running Microsoft software to so much as connect to my network.  I've even taken a nearly-Stallman approach to my own computers, and run everything on almost entirely free software.  Though I don't take it quite to his level, and use a few binary blobs for drivers and am comfortable playing certain proprietary video games.  I don't think my efforts accomplish all that much more than simply make me feel a little better about myself, but I do hope that I set enough of an example to keep at least a few people away from the worst of the offending stuff.

Though Facebook has claimed complete victory, in that I am literally the only person I know IRL that does not use it.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 03:07:16 pm »
More on topic, Windows 10 comes with the following new "features":

Keylogger.  Everything you type into your keyboard is recorded.  Everything.  Emails, passwords, credit card numbers, diary, that dirty novel you secretly work on, all of it.  Imagine if someone was able to get past the security of windows (which happens constantly) and access this keylogger.  Or intercept the sending of its contents to Microsoft.  Or even if not, do you trust random Microsoft employees with EVERYTHING you ever type into a keyboard?

Voice Recognition.  AKA: Recording everything you say.  Microsoft specifically reserves the right to send recordings of things you say to their servers.

Data Collection.  More of the same really.  Your contacts (from all services you use), Calendar events, speech patterns, handwriting patterns (incl. your signature), web history, etc etc etc.

Use Info.  If you open a file it records the name of file, metadata about the file, what program(s) you used to open the file, how long you spent using it, etc.

Forced Updates.  No option to turn them off in the Home version at all.  In fact, Windows uses YOUR BANDWIDTH to upload updates to other Windows users.  Sort of like the BitTorrent network but without the ability to limit the usage.  Try to play an online game with THAT shit going on.  Oh and did I mention you don't get to disagree or have any say whatsoever in what changes these updates make?  Or the fact that since you get a lot of it from other Windows users rather than directly from Microsoft, it opens the possibility to "poison the water" and incorporate malware into the update?  I mean, hopefully the update program would use something like CRC to check the integrity but with Microsoft it's a bad idea to give them the benefit of the doubt in such matters.

Advertisements in the Start Menu.  Yup, really.

WIFI sharing.  Anyone visiting your house with a Windows 10 device and a skype or outlook (or even Facebook if the option is on) account, shares your Wifi password with Microsoft.  Possibly even with their contacts, though I'm a bit fuzzy on this detail.

Full access to your computer by Microsoft at any time.  Yup, really.

There's more but yeah, this is pretty much full-on dont-give-a-fuck maximum surveillance-mode OS.  Friends don't let friends get anywhere near Windows 10.

Also everybody should stay the hell away from Facebook and Reddit and Google.

Or, come up with a usage strategy and strictly adhere to it.  The high-effort way to deal with it is to simply carefully think your way through every click, every typed character, and every anything at all you do anywhere on your computer at all times with absolutely no fuckups or weak moments or drunk browsing ever.  The much easier way is to take precautions from the start.  Like using an amnesiac OS (Faust suggested Tails, which is both amnesiac and a great suggestion), or living off of a LiveCD or other setup where the OS is running from read-only media, etc.

That doesn't solve the internet side of the problem though, to solve that I recommend a VPN and Tor and even THEN staying careful with what you're doing.  Some might call these measures extreme but measures this far are only necessary because the insidious prevalence of data mining has become so extreme.

Wearing body armor and riot gear seems extreme when you look outside your window and see a suburb, but definitely not so when machine gun bullets are flying at you.  Make no mistake, my friends, on the issue of privacy we are most definitely under fire and the rate of fire is quite high.

Edited to add:

I almost forgot the most nifty part about the new features of Windows 10.  If you turn them off, they have a "mysterious" tendency to turn themselves back on after awhile.  Seriously.  They really do that.

(and by "mysterious" I mean that Microsoft freely admits that happens and they designed it that way)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 03:10:35 pm by trix »
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 03:28:10 pm »
In further news:

A lawsuit over an unwanted Windows 10 upgrade just cost Microsoft $10,000
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3088...ows-10-upgrade-just-cost-microsoft-10000.html

Microsoft backs off sneaky Windows 10 upgrade tricks with simple new pop-up
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3089...10-upgrade-tricks-with-simple-new-pop-up.html

Oh and did I mention they've implemented some of their spyware bullshit into Windows 7 and 8 now, using the Updates?  Yup.   Not all of it, since the Win7 and Win8 EULA isn't quite as horrifying as Win10, but as much as they could get away with.

Microsoft Windows 10 breaches Dutch privacy law
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41634617

Oh and don't forget the "Anti-cheat":
http://wccftech.com/game-monitor-anti-cheat-windows-10/

More at 11.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 06:08:19 pm »
I love fearmongering about dystopian techno-police states. Not that any of this is wrong, of course. Just that while Windows does give Microsoft (and anyone with a warrant... or who might get a warrant... or who technically has the legal authority to send a letter) access to everything you do online, it isn't like choosing not to use Windows hides what you do anyway. You generate thousands of individual data points in automated systems practically just by waking up in the morning. If you're going to be paranoid about Windows (and you probably should be), you owe it to yourself to go all the way and assume that not only are hundreds of separate systems monitoring everything you do, but those systems are all interconnected and the resulting data is being sifted by algorithms capable of deducing basically everything.

So nevermind knowing what kind of panties you like to sniff on your personal time. That cat is out of the bag, and there's no stuffing it back in there. It doesn't matter whether you hide from Facebook. It doesn't even matter if you completely eschew connecting to the internet entirely. Just think about all the systems that are trained on you and the quest for "anonymity" is quickly exposed as preposterous.

- If you have a phone, they know where you are. If you don't have a phone, they still know where you are thanks to your car, CCTV cameras, where you bought whatever the last thing you bought, or by extrapolating from the position and movements of people known to associate with you.

- If you go on the internet, they know what you're looking at thanks to the series of addresses that resolve to you specifically. If you use a VPN, they still know what you're doing thanks to a whole host of fingerprints specific to your computer that don't require any special exploit to read. You could go real crazy and use a virtual machine connected to TOR over a VPN, in which case you may discourage casual investigation but since over half of TOR exit nodes are operated by state agencies, you're still boned if anyone really cares to look.

- You could completely sever your ties to anything that runs on electricity and never go anywhere without your Faraday cage on wheels, but that's just a lot of wasted effort since your present and probable future whereabouts, and anything you say to anyone while you're there can be deduced with a simple analysis of your existing past data points plus monitoring your associates. Even if you had never even so much as glanced in the direction of an electronic screen or gotten registered with the state, it would be a walk in the park to deduce that you exist, what your favorite color is, and who you would vote for if you dared.

And that's all without a single human being bothering to notice your file. I'm not saying the State is omnipresent or omniscient, of course. In reality, most of the systems that would enable such pervasive awareness really are isolated, but the ones that aren't are enough to peel away most of the layers of "protection" people think they have, even technically savvy people. It all boils down to plain old math, not even very complicated math. It just depends on you generating consistent numbers -- which you can't help, because as a human being, you're habit-driven and ritualistic to the point of psychosis, even if (and sometimes specifically because) you try not to be.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 06:21:19 pm »
I love fearmongering about dystopian techno-police states. Not that any of this is wrong, of course. Just that while Windows does give Microsoft (and anyone with a warrant... or who might get a warrant... or who technically has the legal authority to send a letter) access to everything you do online, it isn't like choosing not to use Windows hides what you do anyway. You generate thousands of individual data points in automated systems practically just by waking up in the morning. If you're going to be paranoid about Windows (and you probably should be), you owe it to yourself to go all the way and assume that not only are hundreds of separate systems monitoring everything you do, but those systems are all interconnected and the resulting data is being sifted by algorithms capable of deducing basically everything.

So nevermind knowing what kind of panties you like to sniff on your personal time. That cat is out of the bag, and there's no stuffing it back in there. It doesn't matter whether you hide from Facebook. It doesn't even matter if you completely eschew connecting to the internet entirely. Just think about all the systems that are trained on you and the quest for "anonymity" is quickly exposed as preposterous.

- If you have a phone, they know where you are. If you don't have a phone, they still know where you are thanks to your car, CCTV cameras, where you bought whatever the last thing you bought, or by extrapolating from the position and movements of people known to associate with you.

- If you go on the internet, they know what you're looking at thanks to the series of addresses that resolve to you specifically. If you use a VPN, they still know what you're doing thanks to a whole host of fingerprints specific to your computer that don't require any special exploit to read. You could go real crazy and use a virtual machine connected to TOR over a VPN, in which case you may discourage casual investigation but since over half of TOR exit nodes are operated by state agencies, you're still boned if anyone really cares to look.

- You could completely sever your ties to anything that runs on electricity and never go anywhere without your Faraday cage on wheels, but that's just a lot of wasted effort since your present and probable future whereabouts, and anything you say to anyone while you're there can be deduced with a simple analysis of your existing past data points plus monitoring your associates. Even if you had never even so much as glanced in the direction of an electronic screen or gotten registered with the state, it would be a walk in the park to deduce that you exist, what your favorite color is, and who you would vote for if you dared.

And that's all without a single human being bothering to notice your file. I'm not saying the State is omnipresent or omniscient, of course. In reality, most of the systems that would enable such pervasive awareness really are isolated, but the ones that aren't are enough to peel away most of the layers of "protection" people think they have, even technically savvy people. It all boils down to plain old math, not even very complicated math. It just depends on you generating consistent numbers -- which you can't help, because as a human being, you're habit-driven and ritualistic to the point of psychosis, even if (and sometimes specifically because) you try not to be.

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 08:36:48 pm »
I love fearmongering about dystopian techno-police states. Not that any of this is wrong, of course. Just that while Windows does give Microsoft (and anyone with a warrant... or who might get a warrant... or who technically has the legal authority to send a letter) access to everything you do online, it isn't like choosing not to use Windows hides what you do anyway. You generate thousands of individual data points in automated systems practically just by waking up in the morning. If you're going to be paranoid about Windows (and you probably should be), you owe it to yourself to go all the way and assume that not only are hundreds of separate systems monitoring everything you do, but those systems are all interconnected and the resulting data is being sifted by algorithms capable of deducing basically everything.

So nevermind knowing what kind of panties you like to sniff on your personal time. That cat is out of the bag, and there's no stuffing it back in there. It doesn't matter whether you hide from Facebook. It doesn't even matter if you completely eschew connecting to the internet entirely. Just think about all the systems that are trained on you and the quest for "anonymity" is quickly exposed as preposterous.

- If you have a phone, they know where you are. If you don't have a phone, they still know where you are thanks to your car, CCTV cameras, where you bought whatever the last thing you bought, or by extrapolating from the position and movements of people known to associate with you.

- If you go on the internet, they know what you're looking at thanks to the series of addresses that resolve to you specifically. If you use a VPN, they still know what you're doing thanks to a whole host of fingerprints specific to your computer that don't require any special exploit to read. You could go real crazy and use a virtual machine connected to TOR over a VPN, in which case you may discourage casual investigation but since over half of TOR exit nodes are operated by state agencies, you're still boned if anyone really cares to look.

- You could completely sever your ties to anything that runs on electricity and never go anywhere without your Faraday cage on wheels, but that's just a lot of wasted effort since your present and probable future whereabouts, and anything you say to anyone while you're there can be deduced with a simple analysis of your existing past data points plus monitoring your associates. Even if you had never even so much as glanced in the direction of an electronic screen or gotten registered with the state, it would be a walk in the park to deduce that you exist, what your favorite color is, and who you would vote for if you dared.

And that's all without a single human being bothering to notice your file. I'm not saying the State is omnipresent or omniscient, of course. In reality, most of the systems that would enable such pervasive awareness really are isolated, but the ones that aren't are enough to peel away most of the layers of "protection" people think they have, even technically savvy people. It all boils down to plain old math, not even very complicated math. It just depends on you generating consistent numbers -- which you can't help, because as a human being, you're habit-driven and ritualistic to the point of psychosis, even if (and sometimes specifically because) you try not to be.

Like anything else, it's a matter of degree and context.  I'm not assuming my actions give me anywhere near 100% anonymity, nor that they protect me from every entity seeking to establish a profile.  I do think that staying away from products and services from business that have highly objectionable practices is always a good idea.  I don't think anything I've suggested here will give me the privacy I desire, only that it sends the right messages.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 08:38:28 pm by trix »
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 08:53:49 pm »
Also you make it sound like anonymity on the internet is impossible but it's really not.  It takes some knowledge and research but the guys that get busted are usually busted via their own carelessness.  Like the guy that ran Silk Road, taunted the FBI for a long time, and got busted because it turned out he accessed his admin account from the same public library computer every time.  Which is just stupid.

VPN, Tor, Tails (though I prefer the Whonix way), MAC spoofing, etc, are not that hard to learn for anyone who needs that level of secret on the internet.  And yes, anyone who trusts a randomly assigned exit node on Tor is asking to get caught, it's been a well known trap for years and years.

Of course, all that is not 100% either, nothing is.  Which is why personally I prefer the KYFMS method as much more foolproof, but in the end it's all about how much effort an entity is willing to put into breaking the methods used for anonymity, and how well you researched the topic and don't take shortcuts.  Degree and context.

There are other methods too that doesn't require as much of the technical jazz, since many human beings are quite good at pretending to be other human beings, or even made up human beings.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 08:58:15 pm by trix »
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 08:55:12 pm »
The only message you're sending is that you are looking for products that appeal to privacy-minded, somewhat conscientious consumers, and are likely willing to pay a premium for such products. Even taking a stand is a marketing opportunity, these days. The entire human condition is synthesized and mass-produced and other things that make me sound like a Tool song. Not that you aren't genuinely concerned -- it's just that your genuine concern has already been accounted and adjusted for.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 09:06:44 pm »
The only message you're sending is that you are looking for products that appeal to privacy-minded, somewhat conscientious consumers, and are likely willing to pay a premium for such products. Even taking a stand is a marketing opportunity, these days. The entire human condition is synthesized and mass-produced and other things that make me sound like a Tool song. Not that you aren't genuinely concerned -- it's just that your genuine concern has already been accounted and adjusted for.

Quite the opposite, I choose free alternatives and pay nothing at all.  Or I simply get along without.  The difference with Windows 10, since I've never been a Windows user, is that my concerns have caused me to both ban any device running it from my network, and to strongly encourage to everyone I can to avoid it.

I'm not trying to make Microsoft suddenly become a moral corporation lol, I'm just warning everyone I know away from dangerous, insidious, prevalent threats like Windows 10 and Facebook.

Your "it's all done anyway whats the diff" attitude is exactly why it steadily gets worse.  And what I predicted as the likely mainstream response a few posts ago.  All I can do is try.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 09:13:33 pm »
Also it's worth mentioning that having this shit sent to Microsoft is more problematic than just Microsoft having your shit.  A lot of credit card numbers, personal identity-theft-level info, and other vulnerable information is going to be constantly sent to Microsoft servers from Windows 10 users.  You really think nobody can breach Microsoft's servers?  No Microsoft employee or contractor feels like getting dirty?  Or just the malware that takes advantage of all that locally stored information.

Windows 10 is a massive shit-show, from every angle.  Avoid like the plague.
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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 09:14:28 pm »
The only message you're sending is that you are looking for products that appeal to privacy-minded, somewhat conscientious consumers, and are likely willing to pay a premium for such products. Even taking a stand is a marketing opportunity, these days. The entire human condition is synthesized and mass-produced and other things that make me sound like a Tool song. Not that you aren't genuinely concerned -- it's just that your genuine concern has already been accounted and adjusted for.

Quite the opposite, I choose free alternatives and pay nothing at all.  Or I simply get along without.  The difference with Windows 10, since I've never been a Windows user, is that my concerns have caused me to both ban any device running it from my network, and to strongly encourage to everyone I can to avoid it.

I'm not trying to make Microsoft suddenly become a moral corporation lol, I'm just warning everyone I know away from dangerous, insidious, prevalent threats like Windows 10 and Facebook.

Your "it's all done anyway whats the diff" attitude is exactly why it steadily gets worse.  And what I predicted as the likely mainstream response a few posts ago.  All I can do is try.

no no, you misunderstand me. I also do not allow windows on my network except locked away inside a network-gapped VM.

that said, I'm also not opposed to the information state. I support getting as close to the Borg as humanly possible, including eliminating pesky individual rights if necessary. Eventually, we'll do away with the concept of a discrete ego altogether.
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