News:

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed." - Jesus

Main Menu

Not everyone is beautiful

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, October 20, 2012, 05:36:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Chelagoras The Boulder

#166
Quote from: Pergamos on January 22, 2013, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: Wuli Fufu on January 21, 2013, 11:52:52 PM
I probably should re-read it too...did anybody mention how this crap is drilled into kids? All those fairy tales where the future princess is the prettiest pre-rich girl in the kingdom (right down to her teensy little feet) and her evil, murderous stepsisters are butt ugly. Stepmom is usually a looker but ZOMG OVER 30 and not near as pretty as Teenage Future Princess, who she tries to put a hit on.

That may be partly Disney's spin on it.  Snow White was indeed the most beautiful woman in the kingdom  (or the fairest one of all, in the story's words) but her step mother was the most beautiful until she grew up, and was still the second most beautiful after that.  The dwarves meanwhile were ugly little fuckers.  It was her step mom's emphasis on beauty as the most important attribute that had her causing trouble in the first place.
this suddenly reminded me of this.
http://www.cracked.com/video_18506_the-4-worst-lessons-disney-movies-taught-us-as-kids.html
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Chelagoras The Boulder

I agree that beauty, despite its inevitable value as a judgment we tend to place on others, shouldn't be placed above other, worthier virtues such as intelligence, trustworthiness, hard work etc.

I'm a pretty large dude, 340lbs at 5ft 10 in. i doubt i will ever fit into most peoples image of what is fuckable. A lot of the time, this gets me down, as it becomes intertwined with my family's concerns for my future (you're gonna die young if you don't lose weight, you'll get turned down for jobs being fat, you'll never find a girl being at that weight). Yet sometimes, on certain days, i find myself looking in the mirror and actually liking what i see,because i know that at least i'm living my life my way, and my way involves chili cheese fries.

I know that, based on results, i probably dont give enough of a fuck to focus on losing this weight, and i know that doesn't put me on anyone's radar, romantically or professionally. But on those certain days i look in the mirror and remember that i am trying my hardest to be the best possible person i can be, in a  dozen ways that have nothing to do with my BMI, and that i have a large circle of friends who consider me a good and worthwhile friend. But it took a lot of work to get to this point, a lot of reprogramming and self work, and i dont think one can expect the majority of people to flip the same table and say "fuck it, i dont care about what you think about how i look!"

some thing needs to be done about the beauty myths here, but what i'm not entirely sure. I can agree with the fairy tales angle tho, i think the way we portray people in stories and media has a lot to do with he values we assign to people who look a certain way. My first thought would be to move away from the slim and skinny standard of beauty, but i feel that's maybe missing the point entirely? Like, what if you had a modeling agency, that only hired women who were within 1 standard deviation of the national norm in terms of body size, height, curves etc. in order to offer a more representative image of what people actually look like? I'm sorry if i'm all over the road here, i'm just writing whats coming to me at the moment.
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

trix

Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on October 20, 2012, 05:36:39 PM
It seems like the default for fat-acceptance, for body-image issues, is to fall back on the idea that everyone is beautiful in their own special way.

I am starting to think that I have a problem with this.

The problem that I have is not that it's a blatant lie that relies on redefining the word "beauty" into something vaguely spiritual and pretty much altogether hippy-dippy, but that it still allows "beauty" to be a value judgement.

This is not just a women's issue, but to be honest, it is more of an issue for women than for men. If we don't like a woman's ideas, we may make fun of her appearance. If we love a woman's ideas but not her appearance, we may say that she's "beautiful on the inside" or that we "don't notice her looks" once we get to know her. People who are physically unattractive are pressured to compensate; men, by being smart or funny or wealthy, and women, by being nice. By being "pretty on the inside". Fat women are encouraged to feel "beautiful at any size". We all know that "she's got a great personality" is code for "ugly".

Here's the thing. Idealistic redefinitions aside, we aren't all beautiful, and those of us who do happen to be beautiful aren't going to stay that way. So what's the point of pretending that we are, in order to continue to attach value, actual human value, to something that is not actually all that important in the first place? It just reinforces our inner belief that our worth is connected to our appearance, and therefore our inner despair in the parts of us that recognize the lie. It's like telling a child he's smart when he knows damn well that he's not... it does nothing but rip down the self-esteem that he should be building up in other ways, building his sense of human worth by focusing on strengths he actually DOES have. So he may not be the sharpest hoe in the garden... but he sticks with things, works hard at problems, and isn't afraid to fail. So praise him for those strengths, so he can develop and take pride in them. And suppose a little girl isn't pretty... but she's analytical and spots details other people miss. Praise her for that. Praise her for being generous, kind, tough, persistent, clever, a good writer, for having a diversity of interests, for being athletic or good at research, but don't do her the disservice of both lying to her face and minimizing her true human value by telling her that she's "beautiful".

I didn't read responses prior to posting so forgive me if I say something redundant.

I just wanted to say that I've actually given this a lot of thought before.  It kind of sickens me when I see so many signs everywhere that tell women that looks are the most important factor to being a woman.  I think with men there are more directions of "worth" but for women the first and foremost is always beauty.  The first thing said about a woman is often appearance based.  There's an aspect of this to men; beyond a certain level of physical ugliness men and women both tend to be shunned, but at the same time an "average" appearance male has more societal pressure to succeed financially than have a pleasing appearance.  I've heard many times an ugly guy with an attractive woman is assumed to be wealthy to get such a woman.  Ignoring all the other things obviously wrong with that sentiment (like the assumption that she must be shallow), it definitely hints at the idea that a woman brings looks to the table and a man brings money, first and foremost.  Of course, not everyone is so shallow, but media plus stupidity converge to really stuff that down a lot of throats.

It's part of society's cancer, I think.
There's good news tonight.  And bad news.  First, the bad news: there is no good news.  Now, the good news: you don't have to listen to the bad news.
Zen Without Zen Masters

Quote from: Cain
Gender is a social construct.  As society, we get to choose your gender.

LMNO

Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on July 10, 2014, 05:01:38 AM
i know that at least i'm living my life my way, and my way involves chili cheese fries.

I think you need to put that on a T-shirt (XXL).

Chelagoras The Boulder

naw man, XXXL, or as my dad refers to them, Super Bowl sizes
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Pope Lecherous

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 20, 2012, 06:18:51 PM
No one is beautiful. Beautiful is an opinion. If you put stock in how other people think you look then, unless you're an exceedingly rare looking individual, you're in for a world of pain and, even if you are that odd lucky fucker who won the genetic lottery, like you so rightly point out, you're going to be an ugly old fuck soon enough. Even uglier if you try to fight the tide and end up paying for some surgeon to speed the process along by temporarily knocking a couple of years off. That shit never ends well.

Fat/skinny/fit, tho is something you can do something about if you care enough. You weigh 800lbs and are happy with that then, believe it or not, I got a whole lot of respect for you but if you're three stone overweight, with the muscle density of a jellyfish, constantly whining about how it's not your fault and people like me are "lucky", between mouthfuls of cheeseburger, washed down with diet coke and a hours nap then fuck you, you're weak and you deserve to look and feel as bad as you do.

FTR: I used to be a real good looking boy, now I'm old and ugly as shit and I actually prefer it - suits my personality much better than the pretty-boy thing ever did.

My 2c

Everyone is beautiful. Even at their ugliest.
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.

Quote from: Pope Lecherous on July 12, 2014, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 20, 2012, 06:18:51 PM
No one is beautiful. Beautiful is an opinion. If you put stock in how other people think you look then, unless you're an exceedingly rare looking individual, you're in for a world of pain and, even if you are that odd lucky fucker who won the genetic lottery, like you so rightly point out, you're going to be an ugly old fuck soon enough. Even uglier if you try to fight the tide and end up paying for some surgeon to speed the process along by temporarily knocking a couple of years off. That shit never ends well.

Fat/skinny/fit, tho is something you can do something about if you care enough. You weigh 800lbs and are happy with that then, believe it or not, I got a whole lot of respect for you but if you're three stone overweight, with the muscle density of a jellyfish, constantly whining about how it's not your fault and people like me are "lucky", between mouthfuls of cheeseburger, washed down with diet coke and a hours nap then fuck you, you're weak and you deserve to look and feel as bad as you do.

FTR: I used to be a real good looking boy, now I'm old and ugly as shit and I actually prefer it - suits my personality much better than the pretty-boy thing ever did.

My 2c

Everyone is beautiful. Even at their ugliest.

Sooo . . . you are just going through every thread and posting, without actually reading any of them, aren't you?
Weevil-Infested Badfun Wrongsex Referee From The 9th Earth
Slick and Deranged Wombat of Manhood Questioning
Hulking Dormouse of Lust and DESPAIR™
Gatling Geyser of Rainbow AIDS

"The only way we can ever change anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy." - Akala  'Find No Enemy'.

Pope Lecherous

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on July 12, 2014, 04:52:02 PM
Quote from: Pope Lecherous on July 12, 2014, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 20, 2012, 06:18:51 PM
No one is beautiful. Beautiful is an opinion. If you put stock in how other people think you look then, unless you're an exceedingly rare looking individual, you're in for a world of pain and, even if you are that odd lucky fucker who won the genetic lottery, like you so rightly point out, you're going to be an ugly old fuck soon enough. Even uglier if you try to fight the tide and end up paying for some surgeon to speed the process along by temporarily knocking a couple of years off. That shit never ends well.

Fat/skinny/fit, tho is something you can do something about if you care enough. You weigh 800lbs and are happy with that then, believe it or not, I got a whole lot of respect for you but if you're three stone overweight, with the muscle density of a jellyfish, constantly whining about how it's not your fault and people like me are "lucky", between mouthfuls of cheeseburger, washed down with diet coke and a hours nap then fuck you, you're weak and you deserve to look and feel as bad as you do.

FTR: I used to be a real good looking boy, now I'm old and ugly as shit and I actually prefer it - suits my personality much better than the pretty-boy thing ever did.

My 2c

Everyone is beautiful. Even at their ugliest.

Sooo . . . you are just going through every thread and posting, without actually reading any of them, aren't you?

I am responding to the text I quote. Is this concept difficult for you?
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.