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An Honest Question

Started by Q. G. Pennyworth, September 06, 2013, 11:03:29 PM

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Q. G. Pennyworth

This is going to come out wrong, but if I try to wait til it's right it'll fall out my brain entirely.

What the hell are we supposed to do about the bad shit?

We can't sanctions assholes into not being assholes. We can't diplomacy them into not murdering prisoners, poisoning kids, punishing rape victims, and all that shit. We can't limited missile strike them into respecting human rights. We can't invade them into democracy. We can't protest them out of genocide and sectarian violence.

The fuck do we do about all this shit?

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 06, 2013, 11:03:29 PM
This is going to come out wrong, but if I try to wait til it's right it'll fall out my brain entirely.

What the hell are we supposed to do about the bad shit?

We can't sanctions assholes into not being assholes. We can't diplomacy them into not murdering prisoners, poisoning kids, punishing rape victims, and all that shit. We can't limited missile strike them into respecting human rights. We can't invade them into democracy. We can't protest them out of genocide and sectarian violence.

The fuck do we do about all this shit?

Historically speaking?

You kill them.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Ben Shapiro

Utopian speaking?
Create the science where we become immortal on earth.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 06, 2013, 11:03:29 PM
This is going to come out wrong, but if I try to wait til it's right it'll fall out my brain entirely.

What the hell are we supposed to do about the bad shit?

We can't sanctions assholes into not being assholes. We can't diplomacy them into not murdering prisoners, poisoning kids, punishing rape victims, and all that shit. We can't limited missile strike them into respecting human rights. We can't invade them into democracy. We can't protest them out of genocide and sectarian violence.

The fuck do we do about all this shit?

Historically speaking?

You kill them.

Can't argue with that.

Salty

I think there are tools at our disposal, should we wish to use them. Sanctions, shaming, things other than randomly shoving bombs into little girl's birthday parties.

We just don't because greedy motherfuckers.

Hell, where real live problems exist a few bombs would probably be very, very effective. If they were used with surgical precision, as a group effort of humans trying to ensure as little harm to innocents as possible occurs on this little.planet.

But we don't do that.

For the same reason we don't stop fucking up the environment, the mental capacities of our youth, and our own economy as well as the rest of the world's.

Greedy, powerful motherfuckers in charge, apathetic know-nothings reaping the rewards AND BITCHING ABOUT THEM.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Quote from: Alty on September 06, 2013, 11:31:30 PM
I think there are tools at our disposal, should we wish to use them. Sanctions, shaming, things other than randomly shoving bombs into little girl's birthday parties.

We just don't because greedy motherfuckers.

Hell, where real live problems exist a few bombs would probably be very, very effective. If they were used with surgical precision, as a group effort of humans trying to ensure as little harm to innocents as possible occurs on this little.planet.

But we don't do that.

For the same reason we don't stop fucking up the environment, the mental capacities of our youth, and our own economy as well as the rest of the world's.

Greedy, powerful motherfuckers in charge, apathetic know-nothings reaping the rewards AND BITCHING ABOUT THEM.

We sanctioned the fuck out of North Korea, though, and a lot of other countries that are up to all flavors of no good. And nothing changes, and people complain that "SANCTIONS AREN'T ENOUGH" and then you bomb things and they yell "YOU BLEW UP THAT WEDDING YOU FASCIST IMPERIALIST BASTARDS" and maybe you stop bombing and shit just gets worse and someone blows up your embassy and they yell "WHY DIDN'T YOU PROTECT US FROM THE BAD GUYS?" or you keep bombing and add troops and they yell "ILLEGAL WARS NO BLOOD FOR OIL" or you just do nothing and everyone dies.

The Good Reverend Roger

It's complicated.

If you jump on every problem early, you're a psychopath.

If you don't ever jump on a problem, you're a sociopath.

There are no hard and fast rules about when it's time to get involved in someone else's country, or if it's appropriate at all.

I am in favor of taking out the North Korean government via military force.

I am not in favor of taking out the Syrian government via military force.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Honestly, I'm having a lot of problems with Syria because some of the early people involved in that reached out to people I know for help. They were good people, they wanted good things for their country. If they'd gotten more help earlier on, maybe they could have made things better. Now the ones who are left are getting help from shady motherfuckers and a lot of the good folks (and way too fucking many bystanders) are dead and gone. I understand why most of the people I know now don't want anything to do with that mess, and given what's happened in the intervening years I can't say I'm 100% for intervention either, but I can't pretend that I'm not biased against Assad, or that the smarmy fucker doesn't deserve to get his teeth kicked in.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

We could stop exploiting people and countries for financial profit. That would be a good place to start.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Salty

Quote from: Facemeat on September 07, 2013, 12:35:59 AM
We could stop exploiting people and countries for financial profit. That would be a good place to start.

This. There are so many ways to make the the world function in such a way that these things dont begin.

Then system using sanctions and other tools is broken.

It's like a leper doing brain surgery.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

tyrannosaurus vex

The truly violent and disgusting criminal murdering despots, though they may be who they are because of some mishap of upbringing or genetics, are only able to act on their perverse tendencies to such an atrocious degree because they are in power. And often, they are only in power because someone even more powerful put them there. Their despicable violence is their fault, but it was enabled -- if not planned outright -- by others, usually very far away, who believe the games they play are more important than mere human happiness (or lives).

If five tons of explosives can punish a tyrant after the fact, what could half a ton do to his puppeteers before the fact?
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Cain

#11
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Q. G. Pennyworth

Thank you for weighing in Cain. That sounds an awful lot like the right answer, even if it's not pleasant.

Pergamos

You are framing "we" as our government.  Although the US is nominally a democracy we, as in you and I, don't have much say over what our government does.  I think a better question is not what should we, the government, which we, the people don't actually have much control over, do.  A better question is what should we, you and I, people without a strong voice in government, do to make things better for ourselves as well as for those poor bastards over in Syria.

And I'm strongly leaning towards Roger's solution of killing them, but them is our government.  Clearly protests don't work, letter writing campaigns don't work, petitions don't work, hactivism doesn't work.  Maybe targeted assassinations of politicians who vote for complete assbaggery would be a step toward actually taking control of the country.

Unfortunately I don't have the skills or resources to do this sort of thing.

Telarus

Telarus, KSC,
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