Tea Party: No longer harmless nutters

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

We first noticed Marine Sgt. Charles Dyer, aka "July4Patriot," back in March, when we ran one of the first reports on the "Oath Keepers" bloc of the Tea Party movement -- an organization devoted to recruiting military and police-force veterans into a Patriot-movement belief system predicated on a series of paranoid conspiracy theories, especially the notion that the federal government intends to begin rounding up citizens and putting them in concentration camps.

Dyer played a prominent role in connecting the Oath Keepers to the Tea Party movement, speaking at a July 4 Tea Party rally in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And he's been involved in organizing militia "maneuvers" in Oklahoma.

Dyer cropped up again in the news -- this time in the police blotter for allegedly raping a 7-year-old girl
[...]
During the search the sheriff's deputies noted several firearms and a device believed to be a Colt M-203, 40-millimeter grenade launcher, a complaint filed in the United States District Court of Western Oklahoma by Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco Special Agent Brett Williams said.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-leader-arrested-rape

[The Wizard]

Well, shit.

[E.O.T.]

ONE LUMP?

          paranoid conspiracy theory militia rapists

OR TWO?

          the ATF

[Elder Iptuous]

yeah....
call me paranoid, but my initial reaction is that sounds like a hit piece...

[rygD]

All it takes is one fucking idiot to ruin the party for everyone else.

If found guilty shouldn't his own people handle this fucker accordingly?  I am less concerned about the 203 than I am about the possible rape and pedophilia.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

yeah....
call me paranoid, but my initial reaction is that sounds like a hit piece...

The website appears to be focused on this kind of thing, so I think you're right. That doesn't mean that the police blotter info is incorrect, nor that the association with the tea party is incorrect. As someone (Cain maybe?) pointed out elsewhere, it is not out of line with this kind of movement to organize private militias. It sells itself as populist despite being radical, and capitalizes on fear moreso than plans. I could make historical connections, but I don't want to godwin my own thread -- and furthermore, it would give the wrong idea.

[Doktor Howl]

yeah....
call me paranoid, but my initial reaction is that sounds like a hit piece...

Righteo.  "Your side" isn't infested with pedos.  That's the "other side".

[Doktor Howl]

If found guilty shouldn't his own people handle this fucker accordingly?

No, I think it's the job of the state to do that.

Or do you propose that individual organizations should be empowered to kill members that embarrass them?

[rygD]

As I understood it (perhaps incorrectly) this group does not trust the government and they strongly believe in everything that the United States was founded upon, but may no longer be done or widely accepted (acting out against a tyrannical government, etc.).  If they do not trust the state to uphold the Constitution I suspect that such an organisation would take it upon themselves to act on behalf of those they seek to protect, if not now, eventually, as that is essentially what they are about.

I never said anything about killing him, but I personally am fond of that idea...

[Freeky]

  I am less concerned about the 203 than I am about the possible rape and pedophilia.

THIS THIS THIS. 

[Elder Iptuous]

yeah....
call me paranoid, but my initial reaction is that sounds like a hit piece...

Righteo.  "Your side" isn't infested with pedos.  That's the "other side".

nice try.
you know i wasn't saying that 'my side' is immune from sickos, but saying that when i hear a story about a founder of an organization that vociferously proclaims that the government is acting out of bounds and is recruiting men that serve it to vow insurrection if certain lines are crossed, and accuses him of RAPES KIDS and OWNS HORRIBLE WEAPONS, then my immediate thought is character assassination.
i think that is a reasonable base position to work from, even though it may very turn out to be true what is claimed...

[Doktor Howl]

yeah....
call me paranoid, but my initial reaction is that sounds like a hit piece...

Righteo.  "Your side" isn't infested with pedos.  That's the "other side".

nice try.
you know i wasn't saying that 'my side' is immune from sickos, but saying that when i hear a story about a founder of an organization that vociferously proclaims that the government is acting out of bounds and is recruiting men that serve it to vow insurrection if certain lines are crossed, and accuses him of RAPES KIDS and OWNS HORRIBLE WEAPONS, then my immediate thought is character assassination.
i think that is a reasonable base position to work from, even though it may very turn out to be true what is claimed...

Owns weapons gets a plus in my book.

But I automatically assume that politicians and most political activists at the state level or higher are automatically perverse in one way or another.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Well, he's ex-military and runs a militia -- he may even know how to USE the weapon.

From what I understand, the sticking point here is that he didn't have the proper license for it (if such a thing exists -- I didn't look up the weapon description and so on). He may have had it at one time, and let it expire.

The other sticking point is sodomizing a kindergartner -- for which there is no license.

[Template]

As I understood it (perhaps incorrectly) this group does not trust the government and they strongly believe in everything that the United States was founded upon, but may no longer be done or widely accepted (acting out against a tyrannical government, etc.).  If they do not trust the state to uphold the Constitution I suspect that such an organisation would take it upon themselves to act on behalf of those they seek to protect, if not now, eventually, as that is essentially what they are about.

I never said anything about killing him, but I personally am fond of that idea...

It generates or concentrates violent righteous anger that can be directed in arbitrary directions given standard quantities of political spin.

It's the commando version of an angry mob: smaller, deadlier.

[Elder Iptuous]

Well, he's ex-military and runs a militia -- he may even know how to USE the weapon.

From what I understand, the sticking point here is that he didn't have the proper license for it (if such a thing exists -- I didn't look up the weapon description and so on). He may have had it at one time, and let it expire.

The other sticking point is sodomizing a kindergartner -- for which there is no license.

just a point.
the M203 is classified by the National Firearms Act of 1934 as a 'destructive device'.  As this law derives its authority from the interstate commerce clause, it must rely on taxation to effect change.  It requires the purchase of a 'tax stamp' to buy/sell the various items it classified. ('machine gun', 'short barreled rifle', 'short barreled shotgun', 'destructive device', 'any other weapon')  in order to get the tax stamp, you have to pay a fee, which was significant at the time, but now not so much, as well as get the signature of a local chief law enforcement officer.  depending on where you are, this may or may not be difficult...
my dad has a 203 on order for his tacticool rifle.
personally i think it's silly, because the HE rounds for it are each considered destructive devices themselves, and that would add up PDQ if you wanted to play with them.  also the CLEO would probably be less inclined to sign off on it unless he knew you.
most people with a 203 shoot the inert target rounds or get a converter that will allow them to shoot 37mm flares, shotgun shells, or a barrage of 22LR shells, or something....

as far as militias go, i have never been in one, but have known a few that have.  it is my understanding that most US militias today are extremely cagey and operate under the assumption that they have informants from the agencies among their ranks even if they only have a half dozen guys.  (which makes them pretty damned worthless except as a political statement of saber rattling)  I think the primary usefulness of militias is simply to keep the govt on its toes.  i.e. 'liberty can only exist when the govt is afraid of its citizens and tyranny can only exist when the citizens are afraid of their govt' kind of thing...  i think most of the people that are seriously considering direct action in the near term are aware that they will only be successful as a decentralized effort.  what the govt refers to as 'lone wolfs'.  (why they chose a label that would be romantic sounding to just the sort of people might be inclined towards it is beyond me...)

as far as kiddie raep goes, i have no expertise....