Antigravity mouse droppings

[Ob_Portu]

"it's "just" a piece of wood with 6 strands of nickel and a couple of magnets."

..yes

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Why are gods always about power and ruling for so many? that's not right..well not always

Not only can you look at it those ways, but from your view(as I see it) You can actually uphold, interact with, modify(create) and insert information with these entities. (oldspeak:worship)

So sure?? really?

that's weird.

Objects retain information. affect reality individually.

they don't have nervous systems, true, so the natures of their "minds" are different, for sure. But to write them off as non-concious is a little..egocentric/species centric. From my egos view any way. No offense meant.

The bigger question or more important one is, "will the fact that this non-living object has a consciousness change the way to I act towards it?" It's like arguing whether or not you and I and Dok Blight all see "green" the same way or not. As long as we all point to something and agree it is in fact "green" everything else is just mental masturbation.

So sure?? really?

that's weird.

Objects retain information. affect reality individually.

they don't have nervous systems, true, so the natures of their "minds" are different, for sure. But to write them off as non-concious is a little..egocentric/species centric. From my egos view any way. No offense meant.

The bigger question or more important one is, "will the fact that this non-living object has a consciousness change the way to I act towards it?" It's like arguing whether or not you and I and Dok Blight all see "green" the same way or not. As long as we all point to something and agree it is in fact "green" everything else is just mental masturbation.

..yes, but it is interesting, complicated, enlightening and usueful "mental masturbation"

[Phox]

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Minor quibble from a fellow mythology nerd: the United States have a patron goddess.

ETA: \Also, I liked the OP, and I like where this discussion is headed even more.

[Ob_Portu]

"Does Fuckin' A have an individual existence that when I am taken out of the equation"

..yes..think gravity fields interacting.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

"it's "just" a piece of wood with 6 strands of nickel and a couple of magnets."

..yes

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Why are gods always about power and ruling for so many? that's not right..well not always

Gods aren't always about power and ruling, but in these thought experiments, they are.

Not only can you look at it those ways, but from your view(as I see it) You can actually uphold, interact with, modify(create) and insert information with these entities. (oldspeak:worship)

So sure?? really?

that's weird.

Objects retain information. affect reality individually.

they don't have nervous systems, true, so the natures of their "minds" are different, for sure. But to write them off as non-concious is a little..egocentric/species centric. From my egos view any way. No offense meant.

The bigger question or more important one is, "will the fact that this non-living object has a consciousness change the way to I act towards it?" It's like arguing whether or not you and I and Dok Blight all see "green" the same way or not. As long as we all point to something and agree it is in fact "green" everything else is just mental masturbation.

..yes, but it is interesting, complicated, enlightening and usueful "mental masturbation"

This is pretty enjoyable.

[Ob_Portu]

Of course this is opinion, all the same, we IMPRINT our possessions with our perceptions of them. ANd that includes any of their "personality" that we might have created.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

"Does Fuckin' A have an individual existence that when I am taken out of the equation"

..yes..think gravity fields interacting.

More appropriately, electromagnetic. But those fields aren't being activated unless I am activating them. Another interesting perspective is Fuckin' A in someone else's hands. They have the same fondness, but suddenly Fuckin' A has a different accent, since the other guitarist has a different playing style than I do. Fuckin' A remains Fuckin' A, but is he speaking they way he speaks, or even the same language? Let's say a jazz dude is playing him. That's a completely different language than my fingers articulate. Or even in the hands of another metalhead it would be different.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Minor quibble from a fellow mythology nerd: the United States have a patron goddess.

ETA: \Also, I liked the OP, and I like where this discussion is headed even more.

Wow. She has an outdated sense of dress and hairdo! 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Of course this is opinion, all the same, we IMPRINT our possessions with our perceptions of them. ANd that includes any of their "personality" that we might have created.

Exactly. Fuckin' A is an extension of Dok Blight since those are my perceptions. If bequeathed to my great grandson post mortem, would it still have the sme personality, or would he invent a new one for him? Or do I live on somewhat through him, at least through expectation?

[Don Coyote]

The bigger question or more important one is, "will the fact that this non-living object has a consciousness change the way to I act towards it?" It's like arguing whether or not you and I and Dok Blight all see "green" the same way or not. As long as we all point to something and agree it is in fact "green" everything else is just mental masturbation.

..yes, but it is interesting, complicated, enlightening and usueful "mental masturbation"

How is it useful? Will it accomplish work to think about the sentience or lack in objects? Will it solve problems? Explain to me the utility in this?

[Ob_Portu]

The bigger question or more important one is, "will the fact that this non-living object has a consciousness change the way to I act towards it?" It's like arguing whether or not you and I and Dok Blight all see "green" the same way or not. As long as we all point to something and agree it is in fact "green" everything else is just mental masturbation.

..yes, but it is interesting, complicated, enlightening and usueful "mental masturbation"

How is it useful? Will it accomplish work to think about the sentience or lack in objects? Will it solve problems? Explain to me the utility in this?

you can accomplish lots of things working on the conciousness of objects and other things "archetypes, gods, spirits of nations, of the local starbucks" and thinking about it gives you the basis of doing that.

[Phox]

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Minor quibble from a fellow mythology nerd: the United States have a patron goddess.

ETA: \Also, I liked the OP, and I like where this discussion is headed even more.

Wow. She has an outdated sense of dress and hairdo! 

Well, you see, as a Christian Nation ^TM, we don't like to acknowledge that we are actually personified in the form of a pagan goddess.   All the new pictures of her are kept under strict lock and key by Pat Robertson.

[Ob_Portu]

Of course this is opinion, all the same, we IMPRINT our possessions with our perceptions of them. ANd that includes any of their "personality" that we might have created.

Exactly. Fuckin' A is an extension of Dok Blight since those are my perceptions. If bequeathed to my great grandson post mortem, would it still have the sme personality, or would he invent a new one for him? Or do I live on somewhat through him, at least through expectation?

In my experience, all of the above.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The bigger question or more important one is, "will the fact that this non-living object has a consciousness change the way to I act towards it?" It's like arguing whether or not you and I and Dok Blight all see "green" the same way or not. As long as we all point to something and agree it is in fact "green" everything else is just mental masturbation.

..yes, but it is interesting, complicated, enlightening and usueful "mental masturbation"

How is it useful? Will it accomplish work to think about the sentience or lack in objects? Will it solve problems? Explain to me the utility in this?

Say we take it from the perspective of religion and we're talking about the totality of existence, and the observer is a Christian. The observer can then either describe the totality of existence as kind and forgiving or wrathful, petty, hates lobsters and incidentally finds lobster disgusting as food, though the observer will ignore that last bit. These things, while probably pretty useless in describing any actually deity that may or may not exist, says a lot about the observer, and therefore becomes useful in predicting the observer's thoughts and actions.

Taken politically, Voter A has a very specific idea of what America is, how America should behave, and what they will feel when America agrees or disagrees with them (consider constant threats from both aisles to leave the US for country B that agrees with them more, at least for the next 4 years). It says nothing about the country and more about the voter. But that could also be useful in predicting further electoral trends. Not necessarily the action of the government, but the "will of the voters" and their "mandates"

[Nephew Twiddleton]

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Minor quibble from a fellow mythology nerd: the United States have a patron goddess.

ETA: \Also, I liked the OP, and I like where this discussion is headed even more.

Wow. She has an outdated sense of dress and hairdo! 

Well, you see, as a Christian Nation ^TM, we don't like to acknowledge that we are actually personified in the form of a pagan goddess.   All the new pictures of her are kept under strict lock and key by Pat Robertson.

Naturally. She looks a whole lot like Snooki these days and Big Bad GOP Jesus doesn't like that.

[Phox]

To riff further, and go into the topic of religion and politics, a god is a personality that you ascribe to a part or a totality of existence. Say you worship the sun god. That's a consciousness you ascribe to the sun, and that personality is both real and superior to your own. Cool, but here you go. Say we're in the future and living on a colonized planet. Does the sun god rule over that star too, or is that a different sun god? Or, in the nearer future and you worship the planet you live on. Here that would be Gaea. But say you lived on Mars. Do you then worship Mars or a vaguer idea of an Earth deity. If you live on Titan, do you worship a moon deity or is it an Earth deity.

Politically speaking, you consider that a country has a personality (and they do). So is that Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty if you're an American? And what is that personality like? Does it change with administration, congress or both? DOes it really reflect the general mood of the people? And if so, is the government the personality after all or is it just the voters? Maybe it's just the media? Maybe you can look at Uncle Sam as the god of government and Lady Liberty as the goddess of the people, and a goddess of sovereignty who determines who gets the title of Uncle Sam.

Minor quibble from a fellow mythology nerd: the United States have a patron goddess.

ETA: \Also, I liked the OP, and I like where this discussion is headed even more.

Wow. She has an outdated sense of dress and hairdo! 

Well, you see, as a Christian Nation ^TM, we don't like to acknowledge that we are actually personified in the form of a pagan goddess.   All the new pictures of her are kept under strict lock and key by Pat Robertson.

Naturally. She looks a whole lot like Snooki these days and Big Bad GOP Jesus doesn't like that.

Precisely.