Occupy

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The only Lindsay I've met was the one who put forth the flag proposal at GA on the 9th. I know there's people on the library committee I haven't met; I'm mostly there later in the day.

I wasn't there, but was she a skinny chick with big blue eyes? Kind of hoarse from being sick? That's her.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/my-advice-to-the-occupy-wall-street-protesters-20111012

Fuck yeah, Taibbi has waded in.

HELL FUCKING  YES.

[kingyak]

Great response to the "53%" people:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/12/1025555/-Open-Letter-to-that-53-Guy

I understand your pride in what you've accomplished, but I want to ask you something.

Do you really want the bar set this high?  Do you really want to live in a society where just getting by requires a person to hold down two jobs and work 60 to 70 hours a week?  Is that your idea of the American Dream?

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life working two jobs and 60 to 70 hours a week?  Do you think you can?  Because, let me tell you, kid, that's not going to be as easy when you're 50 as it was when you were 20.

And what happens if you get sick?  You say you don't have health insurance, but since you're a veteran I assume you have some government-provided health care through the VA system.  I know my father, a Vietnam-era veteran of the Air Force, still gets most of his medical needs met through the VA, but I don't know what your situation is.  But even if you have access to health care, it doesn't mean disease or injury might not interfere with your ability to put in those 60- to 70-hour work weeks.

Do you plan to get married, have kids?  Do you think your wife is going to be happy with you working those long hours year after year without a vacation?  Is it going to be fair to her?  Is it going to be fair to your kids?  Is it going to be fair to you?

[Cain]

If that was addressed to Erik son of Erik, it misses the point that he is a complete asshole:

[A critic] wants you to fixate on the new house and ignore the old house. My wife and I bought it for $110,000.00 in March of 2001. It is appraised, for taxes, at $119,000.00. We're having a tough time selling it. My student loans payments are more each month than the mortgage. But with the new house? It was originally for sale for over $600,000.00 and we benefited from the misery of others in the market downturn. It was tasty misery at that.

[kingyak]

If that was addressed to Erik son of Erik, it misses the point that he is a complete asshole:

[A critic] wants you to fixate on the new house and ignore the old house. My wife and I bought it for $110,000.00 in March of 2001. It is appraised, for taxes, at $119,000.00. We're having a tough time selling it. My student loans payments are more each month than the mortgage. But with the new house? It was originally for sale for over $600,000.00 and we benefited from the misery of others in the market downturn. It was tasty misery at that.

This was addressed specifically to the kid at the top of the page who'd posted his pic/support letter to the 53%er website.

[Cain]

Ah, fair enough.

Still, my point stands - Erikson is an asshole.

[kingyak]

Ah, fair enough.

Still, my point stands - Erikson is an asshole.

Just read the post you linked. He is a ginormous asshole.

[Cramulus]

Great response to the "53%" people:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/12/1025555/-Open-Letter-to-that-53-Guy

I like this letter a lot.

I like how it addresses the divide between the left and right. The writer acknowledges that stuff like Universal Healthcare is a point of contention, the core idea of the protest is something that both the left and right wing can support. It depicts an American dream that both sides can agree on.

Anyway, do you understand what I'm trying to say?  We can have a reasonable standard for what level of work qualifies you for the American Dream, and work to build a society that realizes that dream, or we can chew each other to the bone in a nightmare of merciless competition and mutual contempt.

I'm a liberal, so I probably dream bigger than you.  For instance, I want everybody to have healthcare.  I want lazy people to have healthcare.  I want stupid people to have healthcare.  I want drug addicts to have healthcare.  I want bums who refuse to work even when given the opportunity to have healthcare.  I'm willing to pay for that with my taxes, because I want to live in a society where it doesn't matter how much of a loser you are, if you need medical care you can get it.  And not just by crowding up an emergency room that should be dedicated exclusively to helping people in emergencies.

You probably don't agree with that, and that's fine.  That's an expansion of the American Dream, and would involve new commitments we haven't made before.   But the commitment we've made to the working class since the 1940s is something that we should both support and be willing to fight for, whether we are liberal or conservative.  We should both be willing to fight for the American Dream.  And we should agree that anybody trying to steal that dream from us is to be resisted, not defended.

[Cain]

You know, it's just terrible how hard work is no longer rewarded in America:

Options Group's Karp said he met last month over tea at the Gramercy Park Hotel in New York with a trader who made $500,000 last year at one of the six largest U.S. banks.

The trader, a 27-year-old Ivy League graduate, complained that he has worked harder this year and will be paid less. The headhunter told him to stay put and collect his bonus.

"This is very demoralizing to people," Karp said. "Especially young guys who have gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming millionaires."

How utterly awful!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You know, it's just terrible how hard work is no longer rewarded in America:

Options Group's Karp said he met last month over tea at the Gramercy Park Hotel in New York with a trader who made $500,000 last year at one of the six largest U.S. banks.

The trader, a 27-year-old Ivy League graduate, complained that he has worked harder this year and will be paid less. The headhunter told him to stay put and collect his bonus.

"This is very demoralizing to people," Karp said. "Especially young guys who have gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming millionaires."

How utterly awful!

Poor poor baby!

[The Rev]

Damned if I don't feel sorry for him. Asshole.

[Laughin Jude]

The only Lindsay I've met was the one who put forth the flag proposal at GA on the 9th. I know there's people on the library committee I haven't met; I'm mostly there later in the day.

I wasn't there, but was she a skinny chick with big blue eyes? Kind of hoarse from being sick? That's her.

It very well could have been; she was hoarse as hell. Kept talking about the need for a "love revolution?"

[Cramulus]

Yesterday, I said

A really popular framing issue that I'm seeing is that many journalists (mistakenly) expect the protesters to come up with a concrete plan or a policy, like we'd expect of a congressman or other elected official. And really - it's our elected officials job to turn their constituents demands into a working policy. The protests can't be faulted for not producing a bill -- they're not lawyers or politicians.

more on that note...

        From Douglas Rushkoff

Anyone who says he has no idea what these folks are protesting is not being truthful. Whether we agree with them or not, we all know what they are upset about, and we all know that there are investment bankers working on Wall Street getting richer while things for most of the rest of us are getting tougher. What upsets banking's defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns.

That's because, unlike a political campaign designed to get some person in office and then close up shop (as in the election of Obama), this is not a movement with a traditional narrative arc. As the product of the decentralized networked-era culture, it is less about victory than sustainability. It is not about one-pointedness, but inclusion and groping toward consensus. It is not like a book; it is like the Internet.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The only Lindsay I've met was the one who put forth the flag proposal at GA on the 9th. I know there's people on the library committee I haven't met; I'm mostly there later in the day.

I wasn't there, but was she a skinny chick with big blue eyes? Kind of hoarse from being sick? That's her.

It very well could have been; she was hoarse as hell. Kept talking about the need for a "love revolution?"

Yeah, I'm sure that's her.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I've heard that NY and Seattle have told their Occupy groups that they have to get out by Saturday.

I don't see this going over very well.