So Pixie and I are talking about these guys from "Whale Wars", an animal planet show about these Greenpeace+ types, who are docked in Southampton this week and will be visiting our incredibly nice but vegan flatmates for a party on Saturday night. Like any good flatmate (or concerned flat sharer) would do, I decided to watch the first episode of this show.
Now don't get me wrong I like whales. They're good people. However the entire episode that I watch reeked of earnestness. I will watch more, but I think I can only do one at a time. Pixie, oddly enough, feels exactly the same (seldom do our TV tastes converge so well). So it sets us thinking - have we discovered the one thing that defines the soul of PD, where we both think this ultimately comes from?
Think about it:
"PD is a place where those who cannot stand too much earnestness will feel most comfortable."
Is a pretty neat one sentence summation of what I think PD is to everyone else. And all our biggest shit fests break out when someone or other gets too damned earnest about something. We hate The Right and The Left for this. The Fundies and The Dawkins Fanbois. We especially hate it in pinealists and our own.
However, do not read this post wrong - I am not saying to stop being earnest. All I'm saying is it's a pretty powerful weapon round these here parts.
Being earnest requires a straight face. That is all I can find wrong with, other than - of course - the sanctimonious preachiness that almost always accompanies it.
No, for me, it's the ghastly grin that reeks of "Now I'll never get this shirt clean.", the hiccupping laughter that sounds like screams to the uninitiated, and the gleam in my eye that says "I ABSOLUTELY cannot stand fanatics; nothing is to horrible for them."
Saints preserve us from those touting a Cause, for they are a bummer at parties.
I haven't seen Whale Wars. Can you elaborate a bit on the earnestness? I'm not following...
Quote from: Cramulus on September 19, 2011, 07:00:28 PM
I haven't seen Whale Wars. Can you elaborate a bit on the earnestness? I'm not following...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8wnEA2pyio
^this guy
I really truly believe that hunting whales is incredibly immoral, and yet those turdburglars on Whale Wars manage to make me root for the Japanese fishermen.
And IMO, the Japanese fishermen show an unbelievable amount of restraint. Some fucking hippies threatened the safety of MY ship like that and I would consider it an act of piracy and sink them in a fucking heartbeat.
And I know that isn't really the point of the thread. I agree with you, Payne, being too earnest about anything is an invitation to be mocked and ridiculed. To me, it implies that someone has reached a point where they've stopped using critical thinking in regards to an issue.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on September 19, 2011, 07:21:41 PM
I really truly believe that hunting whales is incredibly immoral, and yet those turdburglars on Whale Wars manage to make me root for the Japanese fishermen.
And IMO, the Japanese fishermen show an unbelievable amount of restraint. Some fucking hippies threatened the safety of MY ship like that and I would consider it an act of piracy and sink them in a fucking heartbeat.
Fucking THIS.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on September 19, 2011, 07:22:55 PM
And I know that isn't really the point of the thread. I agree with you, Payne, being too earnest about anything is an invitation to be mocked and ridiculed. To me, it implies that someone has reached a point where they've stopped using critical thinking in regards to an issue.
I don't know if I'm reading too much into this of course, but looking back I really do seem to recall that 95% of PD's bust ups result from someone being too eager to set some kind of standard, believing in it so totally that any means justify the end.
What I get from the Youtube trailer seems kinda pretty cool, except the part where he uses his powers to save the whales.
I'm fairly sure they are, but what happens that specifically makes them turdburglars?
Is it that he's really zealous about saving whales? Or that he's really sincere about it?
The guy sounds like a D-Bag but I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why. Earnest doesn't strike me as quite the right word. A lot of us are passionate, dedicated, and sincere about certain things, but that isn't douchey in itself. Is it the sort of righteous wind he's sailing?
Quote from: Triple Zero on September 19, 2011, 07:28:44 PM
What I get from the Youtube trailer seems kinda pretty cool, except the part where he uses his powers to save the whales.
I'm fairly sure they are, but what happens that specifically makes them turdburglars?
You really have to watch a full dose of it in one go. He's THAT up for it and single minded every single minute of a 40 odd minute TV show. And everyone else around him is the same.
I think a lot of what they're doing is cool, and yeah I think the "Research" flag under which whaling is done should be ripped away. I'm even all for people taking action themselves.
What I don't like is that it looks like a cult, and no one ever seems to have any real fun.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 19, 2011, 07:31:07 PM
Is it that he's really zealous about saving whales? Or that he's really sincere about it?
The guy sounds like a D-Bag but I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why. Earnest doesn't strike me as quite the right word. A lot of us are passionate, dedicated, and sincere about certain things, but that isn't douchey in itself. Is it the sort of righteous wind he's sailing?
He's passionate, dedicated and sincere, which is good. Except he's turned it all the way up to 11. PERMANANTLY.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 19, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
Being earnest requires a straight face. That is all I can find wrong with, other than - of course - the sanctimonious preachiness that almost always accompanies it.
No, for me, it's the ghastly grin that reeks of "Now I'll never get this shirt clean.", the hiccupping laughter that sounds like screams to the uninitiated, and the gleam in my eye that says "I ABSOLUTELY cannot stand fanatics; nothing is to horrible for them."
Saints preserve us from those touting a Cause, for they are a bummer at parties.
We'll find out if they're a bummer at parties or not on Saturday, because they're coming here. :x
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2011, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 19, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
Being earnest requires a straight face. That is all I can find wrong with, other than - of course - the sanctimonious preachiness that almost always accompanies it.
No, for me, it's the ghastly grin that reeks of "Now I'll never get this shirt clean.", the hiccupping laughter that sounds like screams to the uninitiated, and the gleam in my eye that says "I ABSOLUTELY cannot stand fanatics; nothing is to horrible for them."
Saints preserve us from those touting a Cause, for they are a bummer at parties.
We'll find out if they're a bummer at parties or not on Saturday, because they're coming here. :x
That will teach you to hang out with Socially Conscious People™.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 19, 2011, 07:53:01 PM
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2011, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 19, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
Being earnest requires a straight face. That is all I can find wrong with, other than - of course - the sanctimonious preachiness that almost always accompanies it.
No, for me, it's the ghastly grin that reeks of "Now I'll never get this shirt clean.", the hiccupping laughter that sounds like screams to the uninitiated, and the gleam in my eye that says "I ABSOLUTELY cannot stand fanatics; nothing is to horrible for them."
Saints preserve us from those touting a Cause, for they are a bummer at parties.
We'll find out if they're a bummer at parties or not on Saturday, because they're coming here. :x
That will teach you to hang out with Socially Conscious People™.
I live with Vegan Police, who hate the Real Police.
It's an innappropriate use of the backbeat.
It's the smug "I stand for THIS (whatever it is), and if you don't, and don't agree with me 100%, and don't support me 169%, you're scum" attitude that gets me.
People RARELY like a zealot or a fanatic. That's why the words zeal and fan have to be used far, far away from the causes that zealots and fanatics use their passion for--otherwise they'd rarely be used without a prejorative end in mind. And for some, they probably still are.
I think earnestness can be done with a certain amount of win if you don't take yourself too damned seriously and ALLOW for the fact you ARE over the top, for most folks. If you accept that, and are still earnest, then I think you're less apt to catch shit. Esp from the denizens that inhabit this particular hellhole. :D
Quote from: Cramulus on September 19, 2011, 07:31:07 PM
Is it that he's really zealous about saving whales? Or that he's really sincere about it?
The guy sounds like a D-Bag but I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why. Earnest doesn't strike me as quite the right word. A lot of us are passionate, dedicated, and sincere about certain things, but that isn't douchey in itself. Is it the sort of righteous wind he's sailing?
For me, it's (aside from the fact that they're all raging hippies) the fact that he's willing to jeopardize the safety of another vessel and its crew in pursuit of his ideals. Whale hunting may be immoral, and there are people on that ship on whose shoulders that immorality should lay, but the deckhands, engineers, and cooks are probably just trying to get a paycheck and feed their families. And even if they're ALL complicit in the immorality of whaling, it's not a justifiable reason for endangering their lives while they're at sea.
Seriously, if I ever run into one of those guys in a bar somewhere, noses will be broken. Though I imagine the chances of finding them in any bar frequented by sailors is about zero.
Obviously that's pretty contextually specific, but I imagine that something similar can be applied to most people that are that over-earnest about their pet causes.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on September 20, 2011, 04:44:19 AM
And even if [everyone aboard the vessel is] complicit in the immorality of whaling, it's not a justifiable reason for endangering their lives while they're at sea.
I tend to agree, but why not?
Why do a small number of people deserve their lives more than whales deserve to exist as a species?
Quote from: Net on September 20, 2011, 11:55:05 AM
Why do a small number of people deserve their lives more than whales deserve to exist as a species?
Because whales are physically incapable of dressing monkeys in people clothes.
Quote from: Net on September 20, 2011, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on September 20, 2011, 04:44:19 AM
And even if [everyone aboard the vessel is] complicit in the immorality of whaling, it's not a justifiable reason for endangering their lives while they're at sea.
I tend to agree, but why not?
Why do a small number of people deserve their lives more than whales deserve to exist as a species?
Because people > whales.
That's just like, your opinion man. :hippie:
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on September 20, 2011, 03:19:53 PM
That's just like, your opinion man. :hippie:
:lol:
Well, we COULD declare open season on anyone who works in an industry that we consider immoral...
Dok,
Has a bunker in the front yard. Bring it, bitches.
I don't think I could die happy unless I got to eat roast leg of banker at least once in my life.
Then again, I essentially work in marketing now... :sad:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: Net on September 20, 2011, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on September 20, 2011, 04:44:19 AM
And even if [everyone aboard the vessel is] complicit in the immorality of whaling, it's not a justifiable reason for endangering their lives while they're at sea.
I tend to agree, but why not?
Why do a small number of people deserve their lives more than whales deserve to exist as a species?
Because people > whales.
This.
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on September 20, 2011, 03:42:08 PM
I don't think I could die happy unless I got to eat roast leg of banker at least once in my life.
Then again, I essentially work in marketing now... :sad:
Bankers and hedge fund managers are an exception.
:bankster: <--- Lot of beef on those guys.
Because when you start deciding that a cause is more important than human lives, you're heading a bad direction. When you accept that an idea is worth killing for, you never know where that will stop.
Quote from: Luna on September 20, 2011, 05:04:43 PM
Because when you start deciding that a cause is more important than human lives, you're heading a bad direction. When you accept that an idea is worth killing for, you never know where that will stop.
Precisely.
Yeah, their the lethal tendencies of the particular group of people I mentioned in the OP really are more "I would die for the whales!" rather than directly trying to harm others. However, the line is so fine, and their enthusiasm so blinding that they really are dangerous to those they target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXsqs5AbtgU
This ^ sickens and fascinates me. From the cultish leader, down to the wilful disregard for their others' safety.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:02:49 PM
Yeah, their the lethal tendencies of the particular group of people I mentioned in the OP really are more "I would die for the whales!" rather than directly trying to harm others.
Are they at least getting laid from this attitude?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:02:49 PM
Yeah, their the lethal tendencies of the particular group of people I mentioned in the OP really are more "I would die for the whales!" rather than directly trying to harm others.
Are they at least getting laid from this attitude?
I think they mostly sleep with the fishes.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:13:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:02:49 PM
Yeah, their the lethal tendencies of the particular group of people I mentioned in the OP really are more "I would die for the whales!" rather than directly trying to harm others.
Are they at least getting laid from this attitude?
I think they mostly sleep with the fishes.
Icthyphiles?
(http://www.surpluspartyfavors.com/catalog/689180_34-1014_783_1.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3313/3238853804_32fbd74fd5.jpg)
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:15:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:13:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:02:49 PM
Yeah, their the lethal tendencies of the particular group of people I mentioned in the OP really are more "I would die for the whales!" rather than directly trying to harm others.
Are they at least getting laid from this attitude?
I think they mostly sleep with the fishes.
Icthyphiles?
You can get a cream for that, these days.
Or a pill. There's a pill for everything.
Quote from: Nigel on September 20, 2011, 06:18:33 PM
(http://www.surpluspartyfavors.com/catalog/689180_34-1014_783_1.jpg)
You are sick in the HEAD.
(http://www.banjopuppets.com/graphics/p024.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:20:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:15:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:13:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on September 20, 2011, 06:02:49 PM
Yeah, their the lethal tendencies of the particular group of people I mentioned in the OP really are more "I would die for the whales!" rather than directly trying to harm others.
Are they at least getting laid from this attitude?
I think they mostly sleep with the fishes.
Icthyphiles?
You can get a cream for that, these days.
Or a pill. There's a pill for everything.
Quote from: Nigel on September 20, 2011, 06:18:33 PM
(http://www.surpluspartyfavors.com/catalog/689180_34-1014_783_1.jpg)
You are sick in the HEAD.
:)
I am now going to troll Capitol Grilling about how a bunch of people here are queer for fish. If that doesn't bring a few over, nothing will.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
I am now going to troll Capitol Grilling about how a bunch of people here are queer for fish. If that doesn't bring a few over, nothing will.
:lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
I am now going to troll Capitol Grilling about how a bunch of people here are queer for fish. If that doesn't bring a few over, nothing will.
YES!!
Aren't there more pressing ecological matters than individual whales when it comes to ocean ecology?
The guy even says something the effect of "Oceans die, people die. Simple. Yet people don't get it."
Um yeah. And if a whale gets killed is that going to destroy the ocean? Isn't plankton sort of more critical in that regard? Aren't there giant ocean deserts that are spreading more every year that threaten the very root of ocean ecology that will eventually kill ALL the whales and well as everything else?
If they took that energy they use to put people's live in danger and apply it stopping the course of human activity that is really fucking ourselves over, wouldn't that be more effective in the long run?
Nah fuck it. LET'S RIDE!
Quote from: Nigel on September 20, 2011, 06:37:04 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
I am now going to troll Capitol Grilling about how a bunch of people here are queer for fish. If that doesn't bring a few over, nothing will.
YES!!
I was told in PM over there - by two separate people - that I made them actually sick up.
HOW MANY POINTS WAS THAT WORTH?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: Nigel on September 20, 2011, 06:37:04 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
I am now going to troll Capitol Grilling about how a bunch of people here are queer for fish. If that doesn't bring a few over, nothing will.
YES!!
I was told in PM over there - by two separate people - that I made them actually sick up.
HOW MANY POINTS WAS THAT WORTH?
(http://www.volksgirls.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/dance_dancing-smiley.gif)
Quote from: Luna on September 20, 2011, 05:04:43 PM
Because when you start deciding that a cause is more important than human lives, you're heading a bad direction. When you accept that an idea is worth killing for, you never know where that will stop.
Well, that's simply a matter of how you frame it. And some ideas are worth killing for, fuck pacifism.
Putting the idea of the short-term monetary gains of whaling ahead of people's long-term ability to survive is an example of making a cause more important than human lives.
But we're a convenience culture, right? All that matters is right now. Fuck the long view. Fuck the consequences that aren't immediately apparent. Plausible deniability bitches!!!!
Quote from: Alty on September 20, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
Um yeah. And if a whale gets killed is that going to destroy the ocean? Isn't plankton sort of more critical in that regard? Aren't there giant ocean deserts that are spreading more every year that threaten the very root of ocean ecology that will eventually kill ALL the whales and well as everything else?
Um, how did a lot of species go extinct? Oh yeah, we killed ONE too many.
A lot of whales are keystone species. This means that if they go, they take their entire ecosystem with them. And yes, at some point, killing one whale will do that.
Quote from: Alty on September 20, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
If they took that energy they use to put people's live in danger and apply it stopping the course of human activity that is really fucking ourselves over, wouldn't that be more effective in the long run?
Well, we're fucking ourselves over with overfishing the oceans. I don't think it's worth threatening people's lives over because there's better ways to achieve their goals, but I do think the "cause" of protecting whales is a lot more important than it appears on the surface.
Quote from: Net on September 20, 2011, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Luna on September 20, 2011, 05:04:43 PM
Because when you start deciding that a cause is more important than human lives, you're heading a bad direction. When you accept that an idea is worth killing for, you never know where that will stop.
Well, that's simply a matter of how you frame it. And some ideas are worth killing for, fuck pacifism.
Putting the idea of the short-term monetary gains of whaling ahead of people's long-term ability to survive is an example of making a cause more important than human lives.
But we're a convenience culture, right? All that matters is right now. Fuck the long view. Fuck the consequences that aren't immediately apparent. Plausible deniability bitches!!!!
Quote from: Alty on September 20, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
Um yeah. And if a whale gets killed is that going to destroy the ocean? Isn't plankton sort of more critical in that regard? Aren't there giant ocean deserts that are spreading more every year that threaten the very root of ocean ecology that will eventually kill ALL the whales and well as everything else?
Um, how did a lot of species go extinct? Oh yeah, we killed ONE too many.
A lot of whales are keystone species. This means that if they go, they take their entire ecosystem with them. And yes, at some point, killing one whale will do that.
Quote from: Alty on September 20, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
If they took that energy they use to put people's live in danger and apply it stopping the course of human activity that is really fucking ourselves over, wouldn't that be more effective in the long run?
Well, we're fucking ourselves over with overfishing the oceans. I don't think it's worth threatening people's lives over because there's better ways to achieve their goals, but I do think the "cause" of protecting whales is a lot more important than it appears on the surface.
Oh, I absolutely agree that the cause of protecting whales is important. That wasn't the question on the table, though.
This motherfucker isn't solving the problem. He's showboating, and what he's doing isn't going to solve the problem.
Quote from: Luna on September 20, 2011, 11:36:06 PM
Oh, I absolutely agree that the cause of protecting whales is important. That wasn't the question on the table, though.
This motherfucker isn't solving the problem. He's showboating, and what he's doing isn't going to solve the problem.
Agreed.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 20, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
I am now going to troll Capitol Grilling about how a bunch of people here are queer for fish. If that doesn't bring a few over, nothing will.
This is serious. (http://i.imgur.com/QXx10.gif)
Don't get me wrong, I am against the killing of whales. It's senseless and wrong. I did know that about some of then being ecological keystones. That certainly changes my perspective.
Quote from: Net on September 20, 2011, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Luna on September 20, 2011, 05:04:43 PM
Because when you start deciding that a cause is more important than human lives, you're heading a bad direction. When you accept that an idea is worth killing for, you never know where that will stop.
Well, that's simply a matter of how you frame it. And some ideas are worth killing for, fuck pacifism.
Putting the idea of the short-term monetary gains of whaling ahead of people's long-term ability to survive is an example of making a cause more important than human lives.
But we're a convenience culture, right? All that matters is right now. Fuck the long view. Fuck the consequences that aren't immediately apparent. Plausible deniability bitches!!!!
Quote from: Alty on September 20, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
Um yeah. And if a whale gets killed is that going to destroy the ocean? Isn't plankton sort of more critical in that regard? Aren't there giant ocean deserts that are spreading more every year that threaten the very root of ocean ecology that will eventually kill ALL the whales and well as everything else?
Um, how did a lot of species go extinct? Oh yeah, we killed ONE too many.
A lot of whales are keystone species. This means that if they go, they take their entire ecosystem with them. And yes, at some point, killing one whale will do that.
Quote from: Alty on September 20, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
If they took that energy they use to put people's live in danger and apply it stopping the course of human activity that is really fucking ourselves over, wouldn't that be more effective in the long run?
Well, we're fucking ourselves over with overfishing the oceans. I don't think it's worth threatening people's lives over because there's better ways to achieve their goals, but I do think the "cause" of protecting whales is a lot more important than it appears on the surface.
I'm certainly not arguing against the importance of whales or any of that. But anyone who spends time working on the sea in a non-recreational context will tell you that there are a handful of immutable laws of behavior out there. One of those is that, given that the ocean will do it's level best to kill you all on its own, you DO NOT FUCK with other vessels like that. Period. Unless you are in a declared state of military conflict and the vessel in question is a military target, the second you commit an act that threatens the safety of another vessel you are no better than a pirate. And given that the pirate at least has profit in mind and probably doesn't want to sink you or kill your crew, you're actually MUCH MUCH WORSE than a pirate.
I have dreams about running into some of those Whale Wars fucks on the street. I wake up with a throbbing veiny hard-on of the sort that leaves sex in the dust and can only be caused by violence.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on September 21, 2011, 12:21:50 AM
I have dreams about running into some of those Whale Wars fucks on the street. I wake up with a throbbing veiny hard-on of the sort that leaves sex in the dust and can only be caused by violence.
Would you say you have ...
:putin:
... a
deep sea ted hatred for these guys?
:lulz: