What do you REALLY believe?

[hooplala]

I think to elaborate on Rat's point, everyone is by necessity an agnostic. Some are agnostic Christians, agnostic Muslims, agnostic atheists. No one knows definite about whether or not exists. They either believe or don't believe in something, but since there is no evidence one way or the other, claiming that science backs up your position whether theistic or atheistic is dishonest.

Did I get that right?

I agree with that.  I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

I consider the definition of those two words to be very different and difficult to put together. Using the above I would say an agnostic atheist is just an agnostic.

No, because the agnostic is an epistemological question.  It doesn't state what you believe, but what you feel we can know.

I consider it impossible to know for certain whether there is a god or not, but in my heart I believe there isn't on.  Therefor, I am an agnostic atheist.

[hooplala]

I think to elaborate on Rat's point, everyone is by necessity an agnostic. Some are agnostic Christians, agnostic Muslims, agnostic atheists. No one knows definite about whether or not exists. They either believe or don't believe in something, but since there is no evidence one way or the other, claiming that science backs up your position whether theistic or atheistic is dishonest.

Did I get that right?

I agree with that.  I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

I consider the definition of those two words to be very different and difficult to put together. Using the above I would say an agnostic atheist is just an agnostic.

Combined together it creates a different connotation.
An agnostic atheist says, "I don't know, but I don't believe in X"
An agnostic theist says, "I don't know, but I believe in X"
A gnostic atheist says, "I know for a fact X doesn't exist, even though I can't prove it scientifically. My opinion is truth."
A gnostic theist says, "I know for a fact X exists, even though I can't prove it scientifically. My opinion is truth."

I consider atheist and agnostic very easy words to put together. The first part says, "I don't know but..." and the second part is, "I'm inclined to believe [insert belief]"

Everyone is either an agnostic or a gnostic, regardless of what it applies to.

Yes, I should have read farther, you answered better than me.

[Kai]

Ah, yes, but Who caused that expansion event?  If you say you don't know, then the King James Bible on my shelf is literally true and 169% historically accurate, by default.

Most human beliefs are small notions.

[Faust]

I think to elaborate on Rat's point, everyone is by necessity an agnostic. Some are agnostic Christians, agnostic Muslims, agnostic atheists. No one knows definite about whether or not exists. They either believe or don't believe in something, but since there is no evidence one way or the other, claiming that science backs up your position whether theistic or atheistic is dishonest.

Did I get that right?

I agree with that.  I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

I consider the definition of those two words to be very different and difficult to put together. Using the above I would say an agnostic atheist is just an agnostic.

No, because the agnostic is an epistemological question.  It doesn't state what you believe, but what you feel we can know.

I consider it impossible to know for certain whether there is a god or not, but in my heart I believe there isn't on.  Therefor, I am an agnostic atheist.

I'd have the same inclination, but I don't go with gut feeling, so a pure epistemological approach will have to do for me. Its not really an issue that impacts my daily life anyway.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think to elaborate on Rat's point, everyone is by necessity an agnostic. Some are agnostic Christians, agnostic Muslims, agnostic atheists. No one knows definite about whether or not exists. They either believe or don't believe in something, but since there is no evidence one way or the other, claiming that science backs up your position whether theistic or atheistic is dishonest.

Did I get that right?

I agree with that.  I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

I consider the definition of those two words to be very different and difficult to put together. Using the above I would say an agnostic atheist is just an agnostic.

No, because the agnostic is an epistemological question.  It doesn't state what you believe, but what you feel we can know.

I consider it impossible to know for certain whether there is a god or not, but in my heart I believe there isn't on.  Therefor, I am an agnostic atheist.

In my heart... I have no idea if there is or isn't. I've talked to deities, I've felt them act in my life... and when I don't believe in them, they disappear.

Maybe that means its in my head. Maybe that means that they only bother talking to the people that want to talk to them... maybe it means I should go get mental help...

[LMNO]

If they disappear when you don't believe them, there's a good chance your map doesn't match the territory.

[Faust]

and when I don't believe in them, they disappear.

Your gods are either politicians or advertising slogans. They only persist if enough people buy into them.

[hooplala]

Wasn't it Philip K Dick who said "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't disappear."?

And, on that note, wasn't it Liza 'with a Z' Minnelli who said "Reality is something you rise above."? 

Ok, I know the second quote has nothing to do with anything, I just like that quote.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Gnostic is derived from a Greek word meaning "to know".

Agnostic is a negation of gnostic.

Only when you're speaking Greek. Otherwise English words--derived from Greek or not--mean exactly what the English dictionary says they mean. Specifically this means that in English, not every Greek-derived word with the prefix "a-" always means the exact negation of the same word without it.

Linguistically speaking, there are many things a word could mean whether or not the English dictionary says they do.

It's moot because, Blight wasn't referring to Gnosticism as a belief system. English or not, he was using gnostic as "knowing" and agnostic as "not knowing". I don't see what all the debate is.

Fuck you both.  I'm a Gnostic agnostic.

GODS?  WHO NEEDS 'EM?

[Faust]

Gnostic is derived from a Greek word meaning "to know".

Agnostic is a negation of gnostic.

Only when you're speaking Greek. Otherwise English words--derived from Greek or not--mean exactly what the English dictionary says they mean. Specifically this means that in English, not every Greek-derived word with the prefix "a-" always means the exact negation of the same word without it.

Linguistically speaking, there are many things a word could mean whether or not the English dictionary says they do.

It's moot because, Blight wasn't referring to Gnosticism as a belief system. English or not, he was using gnostic as "knowing" and agnostic as "not knowing". I don't see what all the debate is.

Fuck you both.  I'm a Gnostic agnostic.

GODS?  WHO NEEDS 'EM?

Militant extremist agnostic. Taken into every aspect of life.

[Bu🤠ns]

I believe in it all.  I'll take it all in these days.  The way I see it, not true? -- not my problem.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I believe in it all.  I'll take it all in these days.  The way I see it, not true? -- not my problem.

Without digressing into stupidity on my part, I actually think this is a pretty good route. One of the things about Chaos Magic (and no, lets not make this about Chaos Magic) is that it calls for switching your belief system from time to time. I think that's a pretty good idea, for different reasons. It helps you see things from a different perspective if you really put yourself into the mindset. You know, if you can pull it off.

Blight,
-not going to follow certain rules from certain religions as a rule. And certainly can't guarantee that he won't fart while bowing to Mecca.

[Sticker_Ninja]

believe? don't make me laugh. take your believe and shove it up your fnord. choose your fundamentals for your character then up to them. nothing is true. everything is permitted. seek or wander, the choice is yours.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

believe? don't make me laugh. take your believe and shove it up your fnord. choose your fundamentals for your character then up to them. nothing is true. everything is permitted. seek or wander, the choice is yours.

Hush. you're in the season of bureaucracy. Or whatever. You will be compartmentalized. Resistance is futile.

Blight
Apologizes for his intense like of TNG

[Bu🤠ns]

I believe in it all.  I'll take it all in these days.  The way I see it, not true? -- not my problem.

Without digressing into stupidity on my part, I actually think this is a pretty good route. One of the things about Chaos Magic (and no, lets not make this about Chaos Magic) is that it calls for switching your belief system from time to time. I think that's a pretty good idea, for different reasons. It helps you see things from a different perspective if you really put yourself into the mindset. You know, if you can pull it off.

Blight,
-not going to follow certain rules from certain religions as a rule. And certainly can't guarantee that he won't fart while bowing to Mecca.

 I think (or at least have convinced myself) that it brings me more spontaneity.  More spontaneity, less worries. Plus it allows me a place to appreciate other models in general.  I've gotten to a point that I'm really just tired of pushing belief against belief.  And it emphasizes the relativity of most situations.

It also allows me to meet certain fundamentalist family members on a level that, if we were BOTH stuck in our belief roles we'd never have the opportunity to meet as people.

Everybody has the answer and if they wanna have it, they can keep it.