Plutonomy: A Leaked Citibank Memo

[Bruno]

So, if the richest 2% don't need us, then why are we still here?

Obviously because they're better off with us than without us.

Maybe they can do without us, but it's just more comfortable to have a slave army working for you?

Also, if Cain's right, they have nothing to fear except from eachother.

Oh and, of course, if you're the richest 2%, and you do away with the other 98%, you're no longer the richest 2%. It's an ego thing, I guess.

So basically, we are a part of their wealth.

Um, obviously.

Hi, I'm Captain Obvious's sidekick Elementary Observation Boy. I'll be here all week.

[Bruno]

Well who pays the taxes which get turned into bailouts which help keep the banks afloat?  Who pays the taxes for public services and publically owned companies, which are then sold off at bargain basement prices to various oligarchs who then turn the screws on those who rely on the aforementioned services?  And so on and so forth.

Not the top 5% so much, seeing that taxes are mostly based on income, and the uberwealthy have a much lower ratio of income to wealth than everyone else. Source

[The Johnny]

Am I engaging in a power fantasy?  It's a good question.  I really don't know. 

Dear FP,

I think your pattern of ideas/hypothetical actions is congruent with laïcité messianism. "I'm-here-to-save-you-all-mere-mortals-that-can't-save-yourselves-from-yourselves" style. Which is flawed in a number of ways including:

-Assuming your fellow monkey brethen are "lost and confused" and only need to be guided.
-Assuming (narcissistically) that you are the "guiding light" that will be able to guide them.

Happiness is more easily achieved individually than collectively.

Sincerely,

-Joh'Nyx

[Cain]

Well who pays the taxes which get turned into bailouts which help keep the banks afloat?  Who pays the taxes for public services and publically owned companies, which are then sold off at bargain basement prices to various oligarchs who then turn the screws on those who rely on the aforementioned services?  And so on and so forth.

Not the top 5% so much, seeing that taxes are mostly based on income, and the uberwealthy have a much lower ratio of income to wealth than everyone else. Source

Which was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Especially in the case of privatization, the oligarchs show their true colours as kleptocrats.  Almost all "economic growth" for the past thirty years has been the product of some kind of fraud - the essential ponzi scheme of financialized capitalism - and to hold onto that wealth, the costs must be passed down onto everyone else, first in the form of TARP-style bailouts, and again in the form of "austerity measures" - government cost-cutting for the poorest, while continuing with crony corporate welfare.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Am I engaging in a power fantasy?  It's a good question.  I really don't know.

Dear FP,

I think your pattern of ideas/hypothetical actions is congruent with laïcité messianism. "I'm-here-to-save-you-all-mere-mortals-that-can't-save-yourselves-from-yourselves" style. Which is flawed in a number of ways including:

-Assuming your fellow monkey brethen are "lost and confused" and only need to be guided.
-Assuming (narcissistically) that you are the "guiding light" that will be able to guide them.

Happiness is more easily achieved individually than collectively.

Sincerely,

-Joh'Nyx

That's not what I got out of his posts. More like, "this is going to happen with or without my participation, but I would rather participate."
I don't think that he's engaging in narcissism. I think he's merely pitching ideas. I also don't think he's saying that the monkeys are lost and confused. I think he's saying that the monkeys want to do something but need to break out of their apathy and the internet will help with that.

I think that he's not too wrong. Remember what the printing press did to Europe?

[The Johnny]

I know its not what hes strictly saying, its what im reading into it - and i accept i maybe wrong in my interpretation.

Comparing the printing revolution to these new methods is very metaphorical, its not the same cultural conditions/context...

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I know its not what hes strictly saying, its what im reading into it - and i accept i maybe wrong in my interpretation.

Comparing the printing revolution to these new methods is very metaphorical, its not the same cultural conditions/context...

Of course it's not the same. Printing gave us mass produced books. The internet gave us largely worthless memes and 4-chan, as well as a wide variety of cheap porn. But I drew the parallel to show the potential that the internet has to effect change, rather than reflecting the reality of it as basically a distraction for the masses.

I mean, hell, isn't that kind of the purpose of forums like this? Meaningful sharing of ideas and acting on them?  There are lulz to be had, sure, but that's not the only reason to come here.

[The Johnny]

Im all up for the sharing of ideas and analysis of "what-is-going-on" in the world. But i personally dont think theres much to be acted upon.

Sure, the internet is a powerful information tool, but you cant force people to use it for "beneficial/productive" things. As far as i can tell, the internetz are used for youtube, email, porn, messenger and visiting shitty sites like ebaums world.

Its the people's discourse to say they want change (if you ask any american "¿Do you love liberty?" guess what will they say), but their actions show otherwise (¿is this same person gonna do something or even perceive civil liberties violations?) - and as long as people dont want change, there wont be change.

[Captain Utopia]

Am I engaging in a power fantasy?  It's a good question.  I really don't know. 

Dear FP,

I think your pattern of ideas/hypothetical actions is congruent with laïcité messianism. "I'm-here-to-save-you-all-mere-mortals-that-can't-save-yourselves-from-yourselves" style. Which is flawed in a number of ways including:

Yeah.  But see, if that were true then I would have had my ass handed to me within an hour, and there would be nothing but a pile of bones left by the time you stumbled onto this thread.

-Assuming your fellow monkey brethen are "lost and confused" and only need to be guided.
-Assuming (narcissistically) that you are the "guiding light" that will be able to guide them.

And exactly where do I assume any of this?  Do you have quotes?  No.  I think I've been pretty clear all along that I think it's awesome that people have their own desires and goals, but less awesome that they often take no part in any political process because they lack the technology/tools to enable an expression in a way which would be meaningful to them.

I can bank online, I can file taxes and pay bills online... but I'm a narcissistic "guiding light" because I'm pointing out that there's a vast untouched potential with regards a population driving the political process more regularly then once every 4-5 years?

Riiiight.

Or are you talking about the fact that I mentioned that I'm working to complete some code which could help with the above effort?  I'm a software engineer by profession.  I have been for a long time.  This is one way that I can help, and I certainly don't think that it falls outside of my abilities.  Or that of any other competent software engineer who gives a damn.

I'm not boasting about that - shit, I still don't have a working prototype - but I'm certainly not going to be coy just in case it offends any of your self-deluded justifications for your comfortable apathy.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Im all up for the sharing of ideas and analysis of "what-is-going-on" in the world. But i personally dont think theres much to be acted upon.

Sure, the internet is a powerful information tool, but you cant force people to use it for "beneficial/productive" things. As far as i can tell, the internetz are used for youtube, email, porn, messenger and visiting shitty sites like ebaums world.

Its the people's discourse to say they want change (if you ask any american "¿Do you love liberty?" guess what will they say), but their actions show otherwise (¿is this same person gonna do something or even perceive civil liberties violations?) - and as long as people dont want change, there wont be change.

Doesn't mean some people shouldn't try. Maybe more people want change than is readily apparent. I'm not necessarily going to bank on it, but doing something is better than doing nothing, in my opinion. It may not have a great overall impact, or it may catch on.

I always got the sense that the reason things stay the way they are is not due to lack of wanting something else, so much as, "eh, what are you going to do about it?"

[Captain Utopia]

Of course it's not the same. Printing gave us mass produced books. The internet gave us largely worthless memes and 4-chan, as well as a wide variety of cheap porn. But I drew the parallel to show the potential that the internet has to effect change, rather than reflecting the reality of it as basically a distraction for the masses.

One funny fact about the printing press, is that it was immediately used for the quick and profitable distribution of smut.  One penny-novel at a time.  It took 150 years for someone to create the first dictionary.  It took a long time for society to figure out that might be a good idea to classify "fiction" and "non-fiction" as different types of book.  Margins, indexes, glossaries, chapters.  Many things we just take for granted, which sound really basic and obvious to us, were considered quite revolutionary.

So we look back and conflate that time period, with all the great stuff which came out of it but I think it's interesting to keep in perspective that the printing press did not instantly bestow enlightenment to those who witnessed its birth.

[Captain Utopia]

Sure, the internet is a powerful information tool, but you cant force people to use it for "beneficial/productive" things. As far as i can tell, the internetz are used for youtube, email, porn, messenger and visiting shitty sites like ebaums world.

Who is talking about forcing anyone to do anything?

Create a tool which provides both a group and individual benefit to those who use it, and let it market itself.

I always got the sense that the reason things stay the way they are is not due to lack of wanting something else, so much as, "eh, what are you going to do about it?"

^THIS.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

 

How did I ever miss this thread?!