Missions, Goals, Objectives

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I worry about the "Missions, goals, and objectives" part, as well, because what can happen if there are stated goals and objectives for a board is that people who just show up to hang around and fuck off and talk shit may end up second-class citizens of a sort... labeled as "unproductive", or if there's a dispute an adversary may ask to show what they've contributed as a way of putting them down. I think there IS a place for forums and groups with missions, goals, and objectives, but I kind of hope this doesn't become one of those places because I like the non-pressured hanging-outiness of it.

I think LMNO's suggestion is great; a lot of awesome stuff happens when people start a project and open it to input. I think, though, that a key is to have enthusiasm for it yourself, and the desire to carry it through even if no one else wants to join... and also to avoid feeling resentful if that does end up happening. Most of us work full-time, most of us are busy doing projects IRL, many of us have families, and many of us contribute tidbits here and there when we can, and it's nothing personal if we don't want to jump on a group project online... it's just what it is.

Speaking of cool group projects, how's the Etcetera Discordia coming? If it needs help, I know someone skilled in design and layout who might have time to work on it. I'd love to see that project come to fruition.

[Cramulus]

So, basically, any initiative is doomed to failure. Best to keep going as we have been.

I disagree--
things change, and the past is not necessarily a good indicator of the future.

I don't want to be organized or challenged. I really just come here to fuck off.

Both of you (nigel&kai) sound to me like you're reacting against an attempt to create a workflow, deadlines, positions and responsibilities. That's really not what I'm going for here. The idea isn't to organize the board into some kind of productivity militia, it's to talk about how we work now and how we can encourage the board to better serve our ends.

There are simple things we can do which encourage quality. Well written stickes discourage retarded n00bery. The very presence of Intermittens encourages people to write creative articles for each other to enjoy. If a bunch of people say "I like reading rants, they're the best part of this board", I'm sure we'll see more rants! We only know by communicating what page we're on.

I mean, maybe I'm the only one on the board who thinks the BIP wiki should be more fleshed out. Or that it's desirable to come up with "new" ideas about Discordia. Hey that's cool - but how would I know unless we talk about it? I don't want to waste my energy on projects that nobody cares about. That's why this thread is called "Missions, Goals, Objectives". Maybe everybody just wants to use this place socially like a regular forum. *shrug* figuring out what kinds of energy will succeed is what this thread is all about.

In terms of organizing projects, I think the key here is to work on projects that can be completed in less time than the PD attention span.  For bigger projects, we'd have to break them into smaller chunks, do one chunk at a time, and then towards the end have somebody go "Hey, wait a second, we have enough for a new book here!" and go and publish the damned thing.

as LMNO pointed out, the BIP was also written that way. Intermittens too - we had a lot of source material, and then somebody took the initiative to throw it into a PDF.
I'm also reminded of the PDF "101 ways to make everybody's day weirder" - we produced that in record time because
       it took a moderate investment of energy by one person
       and a small investment of energy by a lot of people

that seems to be a very well-working model here!

[Cramulus]

I worry about the "Missions, goals, and objectives" part, as well, because what can happen if there are stated goals and objectives for a board is that people who just show up to hang around and fuck off and talk shit may end up second-class citizens of a sort... labeled as "unproductive", or if there's a dispute an adversary may ask to show what they've contributed as a way of putting them down.

Sometimes I come here for social reasons, sometimes project reasons, sometimes educational reasons. I recognize that there's a broad spectrum of reasons people come here. Nobody wants to be told how to use this forum, so I want to be clear: suggesting a motivation does not mean that everybody's gotta be on the same page. Saying we want to do X does not necessarily exclude Y and Z. So let's not waste our breath trying to come up with a vision we all agree with. Just because I want to spread the word of Eris doesn't mean that you have to. Everybody gets to choose their level of commitment, but must also accept that others see things differently. There are certain points we will never agree on. Dwelling on those points is a distraction from talking about what we could be doing.

I'm sure we can talk about what our personal motivations are without insisting that everybody should share them. 

[hunter s.durden]

The unfocused board is what caused me to fuck off for so long. I can only look at so many fluff threads about everyone's stupid ass vacations and soup recipes before I get bored and look elsewhere. I pretty impressed that since I've been back, maybe a quarter of my time has been spent in Apple Talk, whereas before it was like 80%. This place has depth to it's content, and it's good.

[AFK]

Cram, what would you recommend in terms of the BIP wiki? 

[Cait M. R.]

As far as I can tell from, say, the Double Hermeneutic thread, it seems like Cramulus just wants more content on it in general. The more that's there the more we have to work with.

However, he could have specific goals in mind. I just want to possibly save him the trouble of typing stuff if I'm right.

[AFK]

I guess I'm looking for less general and more specific.  I do try to update the wiki from time to time and so if there are some specific kinds of things we want to add to it I'd like to know what to look for. 

[Cramulus]

I guess I'm looking for less general and more specific.  I do try to update the wiki from time to time and so if there are some specific kinds of things we want to add to it I'd like to know what to look for. 

this needs its own thread, I think. I don't want to jack this one by talking about specific projects. But briefly-- (hah)

Right now there's a lot of information in our collective. But it's kind of inaccessable in threads. You can't find where to look.

         but in The Beginning...
we made a push to collect the highlights of good discussions in the Literature section. I wonder if that's something that'd be worth collecting again.



I'm interested in how bip.com might form part of the feedback loops which encourage good content on PD.

Like how there's a culture here of putting other people's posts in the POTD thread. Doing this showcases / reinforces the kind of humor we find funny.




If people got in the habit of posting their rants on BIP.com after they've gotten feedback at PD, we'd be collectively creating a very interesting library of original content. People would aspire to write rants for that collection. Over time, the collection gets better and takes on a life of its own. The whole thing is easy to throw in PDF and upload to lulu press.

If people were interested in making this, it could be cool to set up a PD memeopedia. We could have pages for stuff like Shrapnel, The Machine, Intermittens, thoughts on Anarchism, etc
      it would try to have multiple viewpoints. Sort of like how everything2.com works - you type in a word, and you get a bunch of people's mini-articles about that topic.

[AFK]

yeah needs own thread, and so...

[LMNO]

I guess I'm looking for less general and more specific.  I do try to update the wiki from time to time and so if there are some specific kinds of things we want to add to it I'd like to know what to look for. 

this needs its own thread, I think. I don't want to jack this one by talking about specific projects. But briefly-- (hah)

Right now there's a lot of information in our collective. But it's kind of inaccessable in threads. You can't find where to look.

         but in The Beginning...
we made a push to collect the highlights of good discussions in the Literature section. I wonder if that's something that'd be worth collecting again.



I'm interested in how bip.com might form part of the feedback loops which encourage good content on PD.

Like how there's a culture here of putting other people's posts in the POTD thread. Doing this showcases / reinforces the kind of humor we find funny.




If people got in the habit of posting their rants on BIP.com after they've gotten feedback at PD, we'd be collectively creating a very interesting library of original content. People would aspire to write rants for that collection. Over time, the collection gets better and takes on a life of its own. The whole thing is easy to throw in PDF and upload to lulu press.

If people were interested in making this, it could be cool to set up a PD memeopedia. We could have pages for stuff like Shrapnel, The Machine, Intermittens, thoughts on Anarchism, etc
      it would try to have multiple viewpoints. Sort of like how everything2.com works - you type in a word, and you get a bunch of people's mini-articles about that topic.

Suggestion:  Someone claims the role of "detrius collector", asks permission of ranters, and moves them over themselves.

Most of us won't mind, if we're credited.

[P3nT4gR4m]

This is what I was angling for when I put out my Intermittens 6 announcement and asked for "thread miners". Lemme put in another reminder/plug - if you can think of anything that would fit with your idea of what constitues "discord in theory and practice" drop a link in my thread

[/threadjack]

[bds]

Cram, I'd just like to say, you've honestly inspired me.

Not that I can actually contribute much to any of this; other than writing (badly), but still. Good job!

I think a lot of this could/should come into effect through the new front page. It needs to be turned into the hub of activity, not a mostly redundant page of links. It needs to have lots of useful information, links to important threads on the boards, links to projects and ideas threads, links to other Discordian/Relevant sites, and various other paraphernalia. If this is achieved well, I'm pretty sure it will increase productivity here, and encourage a larger and better community.

However, I wholeheartedly agree with Nigel; this still needs, at least in part, to be a place where people can just come to fuck off, chill and chat idly.

[East Coast Hustle]

When I took this place over, the idea was that PD.com would be the place where we could "organize" (I use the term loosely) and bend our collective will towards collaborative projects both online and IRL. People who wanted to do nothing but chat idly and talk about what they just ate/listened to/stuck up their ass could do that at EB&G.

That's not to mean that nobody should ever engage in idle chatter at PD.com (obviously) but the idle chatter seems to have attained a kudzu-like quality. If people are uncomfortable with the idea of discordians organizing and getting "serious", they're free to go elsewhere. EB&G would be my first suggestion. They're also free to stay and make meaningful contributions or not, but I will react harshly to anyone who suggests that PD.com should not be the type of forum where we have some larger "big picture" goals and objectives.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Looks like it's control-freak time.

What's next, you gonna edit my posts and make up lies about what I said?

[bds]

Fuck's sake.

Nigel, you sound ridiculous.