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A Chaos Marxism Primer

Started by Cramulus, February 15, 2011, 04:17:00 PM

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Placid Dingo

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 18, 2011, 12:29:12 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on February 17, 2011, 09:35:22 PM

How can we wake people up?

Do we want to wake people up?  I'm not so sure, anymore.

When I started a creative writing course, a lecturer relayed an authors explanation of why he writes. There is a child in a library. He's planning to kill himself. He reads a book and that book changes his life and his mind. The author (who was the boy) said that the books he writes are for that child.

I imagine most of us are writing/designing/pranking for our younger selves as we were craving answers/meaning/lulz/whatever. Speaking to the waking rather than waking the sleeping.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

LMNO

Quote from: Cramulus on February 17, 2011, 11:34:49 PM
I thank everybody for very thoughtful answers...

Let me be a spag for a second and shift the goal posts over by a few inches...

I want to amend that question What's the next step for Discordia?

                        I think a better question might be What's the next step for us?

Create something.  Doesn't matter if it's a song, a poem, someone's dinner, a set of shelves, an angry letter to Congress, whatever.  Just create something.  Create something you really want to create.  Put your heart in it.  Take pride in it.  Create.

It doesn't even have to explicitly be about or reference Discordia.  Because, when you put your heart in it, it will contain what you believe. 

Then, create something else.  Or create the same thing.  If you keep creating, someone will notice.  It doesn't have to be someone who will put it on YouTube or someone who will give you a $1M marketing budget.  It could be your neighbor.  Could be your boss.  Could be your family.  Someone will notice.  And someone will ask about it.  And if you're putting your heart in it, they'll want to know about what you believe.  And you can tell them.  And after you tell them, you make them create something.

You see, Discordia (for me) isn't about worldwide movements.  It can't "sweep the nation" and change people like Damascus.  It's viral, but it's analog.  You have to get into someone's space and transmit the ideas.  It's not something that can be passively caught.  Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.  It's like Hep C -- You have to get really messy and up close with it.

In short:

Transform Yourself.
Transform Your Environment.
Transform Others.


Luna

That's damn near poetic, right there, LMNO.
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

LMNO

Thanks.  Sometimes I get the feeling we overthink things too much. There's no need to create massive sociological theories and philosophies that would work if only everyone would play along exactly the way I want them to

Luna

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:25:27 PM
Thanks.  Sometimes I get the feeling we overthink things too much. There's no need to create massive sociological theories and philosophies that would work if only everyone would play along exactly the way I want them to

Pft.  Trying to change the way large groups of people behave is like trying to stave off a stampede by standing there waving your skivvies.  Momentum is gonna crush you flat.

But, if you can convince one or two to shift course...  Others will follow.
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

Captain Utopia

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:17:48 PM
Then, create something else.  Or create the same thing.  If you keep creating, someone will notice.  It doesn't have to be someone who will put it on YouTube or someone who will give you a $1M marketing budget.  It could be your neighbor.  Could be your boss.  Could be your family.  Someone will notice.  And someone will ask about it.  And if you're putting your heart in it, they'll want to know about what you believe.  And you can tell them.  And after you tell them, you make them create something.

I love this thought.  Go to a chrysler forum and they'll be doing their own versions of womp.  Go to a knitting forum and you'll find a subset of them writing poetry or competing in one or two other arenas.  That's not to mention the subject-matter of expertise that drew them together in the first place.  Whenever groups of people get together it seems that we naturally start creating stuff.  Often we get together just so that we can compete and learn from each other.  It's how we started with rocks and ended up with highly crafted stone axe heads.

My problem with this though, is that the participation model for groups tends to follow a power law distribution.  Here Clay Shirky goes into a fairly detailed explanation.

For every awesome thing you create, you have 1000 people who appreciate it, but figure they can't even compete and so don't even bother starting to invest the time required.  Now not to get too meta, but I think PD avoids this problem somewhat, and displays an incredible amount of creativity because we applaud all forms of creativity with the possibility of some exceptions I can't think of.  If you don't feel you can write, then you can still legitimately hold a claim to the group energy if you're wowing people with your awesome topiary.

But crucially, this is part of the narrative of the site.  It doesn't happen everywhere else at the same scale.

So for this to work, I think you'd also need to transmit that "every form of creativity is cool" narrative, and so we're back at square one?  :?


Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:17:48 PM
Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?

Luna

Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 18, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:17:48 PM
Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?


Why not?
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

Captain Utopia

Quote from: Luna on February 18, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 18, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:17:48 PM
Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?


Why not?

One reason springs to mind - if we successfully craft that golden apple, then we have responsibility for something we lose control of the second it leaves our hands.

Cramulus

#83

LMNO

CU, you're thinking too small.  Who says the creativity is even part of a forum?  Create things in your environment, the one in which you live.  Create things IRL.  Create things in your entire life, not just your online life.

Log off, shut down the computer, and go do something that will physically affect your environment.  Hanging out with a bunch of online spags isn't going to change the people around you.  Posting on a forum isn't going to traumatically affect the people who read it (please, no pedantic exceptions).

When Cram says, "Be the trouble you want to see in the world," he doesn't mean hiding behind an alt while trolling MysticWicks.  He means going out the front door and CREATING something that's interesting.  Or at least, that's what I think he means.


Luna

Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 18, 2011, 02:59:15 PM
Quote from: Luna on February 18, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 18, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:17:48 PM
Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?


Why not?

One reason springs to mind - if we successfully craft that golden apple, then we have responsibility for something we lose control of the second it leaves our hands.

We lose control of damn near everything the second it leaves our hands.  Control isn't as important as people think it is.  Build it as close to right as possible, wind it up, and let it fly.  
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

LMNO

Quote from: Luna on February 18, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 18, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 01:17:48 PM
Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?


Why not?

If Thinking for Yourself was easy, everyone would be doing it.  But I wish you the best of luck, and look forward to your efforts.

Captain Utopia

Cram, those posters are wonderful!  I'll definitely be putting them up.  Btw - are these kopyleft?  I don't like the account requirement for downloading stuff from scribd and so I'm archiving all the (k) stuff I can find at eb&g.


Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 03:06:55 PM
CU, you're thinking too small.  Who says the creativity is even part of a forum?  Create things in your environment, the one in which you live.  Create things IRL.  Create things in your entire life, not just your online life.

Log off, shut down the computer, and go do something that will physically affect your environment.  Hanging out with a bunch of online spags isn't going to change the people around you.  Posting on a forum isn't going to traumatically affect the people who read it (please, no pedantic exceptions).

When Cram says, "Be the trouble you want to see in the world," he doesn't mean hiding behind an alt while trolling MysticWicks.  He means going out the front door and CREATING something that's interesting.  Or at least, that's what I think he means.

I agree absolutely, which is why there's now a real-world/collaborative forum dedicated to doing that at the bar and grill.  As in - making it easier to meet up with other like minds in your area, because having local groups dedicated to making mischief in the real world makes it incredibly easier for the long-tail to contribute.

There are people reading this right now who could meet up for drinks tonight and start something going in meatspace together, they just don't know it.


LMNO

#88
I fear I'm not explaining myself very well.  I apologize.  When I suggest creating something, I don't really mean "go out and meet people and spread the word of Discordia."  

What I mean is, essentially, make Creating Things a part of your everyday life.  Live your life creatively, unabashedly Discordian-- and you don't even have to announce that you're doing so.  In fact, it's often more effective when you don't preach The Word.  If you spend your time creating and being creative, you will change the reality of the people around you.  Don't get me wrong, going out on sprees of Creative Disorder with a pack of friends is fun, but the best way to convince someone to Think For Themselves is simply living that way by example.

As the song says,* "Freedom is something that can't be given/They say it comes from the way that you're living."  Show, don't tell.





*Gerund -"The Jailor"

Captain Utopia

Show, don't tell - I agree 100%.  But okay - say we manage to increase the number of people making and creating things - how does that translate into more people Thinking For Themselves?  For example, the Maker Faire has over 60,000 people attending it - wouldn't we just get swept up into their narratives if we get too close without one of our own?