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Monotheism and Minds: Why Monotheism Is Untenable

Started by QueenThera, December 14, 2014, 01:08:10 AM

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QueenThera

Spitballing here, admittedly, but here goes:

We have not observed minds being mindful in isolation. A mind thinks in language and behaves via reason. But what use is language in isolation? Language NEEDS someone to listen, as well as someone to speak.

Therefore, God speaking creation into existence cannot be tenable. For whatever else you define God as, apart from the paradoxes of omnipotence and omniscience, God is Mind preceding Matter. SINGLE Mind.

And a Mind speaking by itself does not make any logical sense. Polytheism would have to result, which can be seen in the concept of Elohim, the plural form of God, in Genesis. Talking to yourself makes more sense when you're purely Mind, and able to split up without it being seen as socially transgressive. Hell, it leads to CREATING society.

...dammit, I am not sure if that made any sense.
Often incoherent. Tends to ramble on about various topics.
Hopes to get beyond that.

Formerly BrotherPrickle

LMNO

In Genesis, God used the words "we" and "us".


Sorry about that.  It was a good idea until you read the source material.

Nephew Twiddleton

It's also worth noting that you're equating monotheism with the specific belief in Yahweh as that singular deity. While Abrahamic religions are the most popular kind of monotheism, it's not the only one. Indeed, even religions that appear polytheistic on the surface count as monotheism. Wicca and Hinduism, for example.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
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Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Completely uncertain whether either of you guys actually read the OP. You seem to be kneejerking against your own internal dialogues more than anything else. Which I understand because that's exactly what I came into this thread to do, but then I read the OP.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I'd suggest the OP consider trying to step back from linear thinking, and also maybe ponder the actual relevance of the question.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


QueenThera

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 14, 2014, 04:02:43 PM
I'd suggest the OP consider trying to step back from linear thinking, and also maybe ponder the actual relevance of the question.
Fair enough. I was kinda...spewing out my thoughts before I lost them.

Thanks for the honest feedback.
Often incoherent. Tends to ramble on about various topics.
Hopes to get beyond that.

Formerly BrotherPrickle

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 14, 2014, 03:58:13 PM
Completely uncertain whether either of you guys actually read the OP. You seem to be kneejerking against your own internal dialogues more than anything else. Which I understand because that's exactly what I came into this thread to do, but then I read the OP.

No, I read it. I guess I just missed the point. I'm still not quite seeing it, at least not how it relates to the title.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

rong

Linear thinking? As opposed to nonlinear thinking?

Please to explain
"a real smart feller, he felt smart"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


rong

"a real smart feller, he felt smart"

hooplala

I understood the OP as saying language only works when it is a medium to carry information from Mind A to Mind B, and so the idea that "God" would be able to think by itself, in the way we conceive, let alone communicate, isn't tenable... and being able to speak the world into existence is even less likely. 

Perhaps I misunderst as well.

But LMNO is right. The Torah never claims JHVH is the only god.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

LMNO

Yeah, but my mistake was, that's covered in the OP with the elohim.  I'll cop to bad reading comprehension.

But that makes the second paragraph incompatible with the third.  Unless, of course, the OP is arguing against a (perhaps) commonly held perception that YHWH was alone when creating the universe.  I doubt that anyone on this board thinks so, but I could be wrong about that, too.


Nephew Twiddleton

That's more or less why I pointed out that monotheism=/=Judeochrislam.

The act of creation doesn't have to rely on a deity that's talking to an empty room, even if a deity is involved. The deity involved would just be alien to an Abrahamic understanding of what God is.

ETA: I should specify, "even if a singular deity is involved"
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I'm pretty sure you guys brought the assumption of Judeochristianity with you; the argument seems to be independent of the source of claims of a monotheistic deity. Also it seems to seriously be saying "A monotheistic deity could never evolve naturally" and um.

Yeah.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 14, 2014, 01:08:10 AM
And a Mind speaking by itself does not make any logical sense. Polytheism would have to result, which can be seen in the concept of Elohim, the plural form of God, in Genesis. Talking to yourself makes more sense when you're purely Mind, and able to split up without it being seen as socially transgressive. Hell, it leads to CREATING society.

The specific example given was Abrahamic.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS