Question about BIP

[Sir Perineal]

You are asking many of the very questions pondered and bounce around by our impressive array of BIP contributors.

Short Answers:
1. I hope so. I believe I can, and I have fun doing so.

2.Non-issue for me. I'm content with whatever thought process is happening right now.

Remember, my end all is true contentment. If I'm heading in that direction, i'm good.
Results may vary.

That's great, in respect to your own personal goals.  But in the context of the BIP project, how can it be a non-issue?  That is, aren't thought processes exactly what we are arguing about when we are making these pamphlets that talk about thinking for yourself?

[P3nT4gR4m]

There is something that does the thinking. My advice is examine it. By my own definition you are 'out of jail' the minute you do this although (to save LMNO pointing it out) you are only out on visit.

The thing that does the thinking is trapped in mind and often doesn't realise that he/she/it is also in control of mind or, to be more precise, is able to take control and dictate, to a greater or larger extent, the operations, calculations, decisions and ambitions of mind.

You cannot escape the prison but it's entirely up to you what kind of place it is. It could be full of cheap hookers and expensive beer. You have to decide to decide. I did so it really doesn't matter to me if you do or not.

BIP is one of those "Wish I was there to see the look on their face" documents. Most people it will have no effect on but the odd person who is almost ready to make the leap will be enlightened by it. It was reading stuff like BIP that made the penny drop for me. I wonder if the guy who wrote "Little Book of Zen" would get the buzz I'm talking about if I could tell him "Yeah dude, satori, for me, right on page 9"

[hunter s.durden]

I don't know the intentions of everyone that reads this stuff.
I'm just not "there" yet.
Therefore I am inadequate to answer that question for you.

Nothing in the BIP should be argued, it should be discussed.

[P3nT4gR4m]

It's all about the memes. We spread them cause we can. Nobody knows what these memes will or will not accomplish. There's only one way to find out.

[Sir Perineal]

There is something that does the thinking. My advice is examine it. By my own definition you are 'out of jail' the minute you do this although (to save LMNO pointing it out) you are only out on visit.

The thing that does the thinking is trapped in mind and often doesn't realise that he/she/it is also in control of mind or, to be more precise, is able to take control and dictate, to a greater or larger extent, the operations, calculations, decisions and ambitions of mind.

You cannot escape the prison but it's entirely up to you what kind of place it is. It could be full of cheap hookers and expensive beer. You have to decide to decide. I did so it really doesn't matter to me if you do or not.

BIP is one of those "Wish I was there to see the look on their face" documents. Most people it will have no effect on but the odd person who is almost ready to make the leap will be enlightened by it. It was reading stuff like BIP that made the penny drop for me. I wonder if the guy who wrote "Little Book of Zen" would get the buzz I'm talking about if I could tell him "Yeah dude, satori, for me, right on page 9"

I don't know if we really decide anything though.  We, here on this forum, might have been predetermined to read things like PD and BIP and, based on our genes and upbringing, we got something out of it.  And others might be predetermined either not to read such things or to not get anything out of reading them.

For me, what I have gotten from a lot of this Discordianism stuff is that it is a mistake to think about what "ought" to be.  Instead, it seems that peace of mind comes in accepting what "is."  That itself is a famous philosophical problem introduced by David Hume, aptly called the "is-ought problem".  In simple terms, how can we ever derive what ought to be from what is?  The question is, is it just an illusion or rather a delusion to think that it is up to us what kind of prison we inhabit?

[hunter s.durden]

1. I'm having fun trying.

2. Another non-issue for me. I'm having fun. Whether I chose this, or it was thrust upon me doesn't concern me. I'm raking in the lulz, so i'm good.

The question is: What do you think about all this?

[Sir Perineal]

1. I'm having fun trying.

2. Another non-issue for me. I'm having fun. Whether I chose this, or it was thrust upon me doesn't concern me. I'm raking in the lulz, so i'm good.

The question is: What do you think about all this?

Mu?

[Mangrove]

hmm....sounds like this is moving from a BIP issue, to a 'does free will exist?' issue.

but that's cool.

as the others have said, the BIP for me was in part, the acknowledgement of the prison. that is, our conceptual and biological constraints. for some people, this is horrible, shocking news. they think that the BIP is dark, bleak, nihilistic etc. that however, misses the point entirely. part of the BIP notion is that while the 'prison' cannot be escaped, it can be drastically modified and it's up to the individual how they do that. this is why LMNO threw out the idea of 'the golden sphere of possibility' because some people were too caught up in BIP as being something bad. he thought GSP was a more of an ubeat phrase and less off-putting.

for me BIP contains the paradox that although we are limited in our perception, and our perceptions are inevitably interpreted/filtered/distorted by our belief systems, if it were not for these limitations, we would not be able to manifest in order to have those experiences in the first place. the liber 812 BIP poeecast addresses this. and i'm not just saying that to plug SSOOKN products.....well, not entirely.

so for me it's a case of: as a human being existing within the material world, you can either have imperfect experience (BIP) or..uhh...well..nothing. of course, this could lead into a discussion about death, the afterlife, the notion of consciousness that isn't materially based etc etc. my impression is, however, that the BIP literature does not really address death & the 'afterlife' so called (and nor does it want to in all probability). the overall tone is getting your lulz in this life and leaving the 'other' to the theologians, religionists etc. naturally, you are free to speculate on that kind of yourself, being always free to do so. it's just that the BIP focus seems to be on 'the now'.

i don't know whether the other BIPs here would agree, but from my own P.O.V., we are not our thoughts. by being able to observe my own thought processes (say, via meditation) then it means that i am an observer of thought. that's about as much as i can say on that, especially since i've not had my cereal yet. my feeling though, is that the people who take the time to observe their own thoughts, realize that they're often a dishevelled accretion of nonsense that's accumulated over the years - these are the people who are experiencing BIP consciousness (if i can use such a pretentious phrase). knowing that beliefs are 'just thoughts you keep having' is, i believe, an antitdote to dogmatism which is partly why i think BIP is a useful meme to be spreading.

i think at the bottom of it, the BIP is saying: you can't escape 'the prison' in this life, but you can change it. knowing that you are free to change it sort of stops it being a prison really. instead it becomes a life-long interior renovation project.

or something like that. maybe.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Maybe it becomes a GSP?

Maybe both memes are required as two sides of the same coin. Maybe you escape the BIP by using it as a GSP. Incarceration is the mother of invention - use your cell as you will.

[LHX]

nice thread


freedom and limitations work hand in hand


it seems the more one understands their limitations, the more free they become

alternatively, limitations suggest a prison



from my stance, 'think for yourself' is a encouragement not to sell yourself short
never stop exploring or experimenting ESPECIALLY based on what comes out of the mouths of others


in the words of the SubGenius: pull the wool over your own eyes



not thinking for yourself puts unwarranted dependency on others

shaky foundation

not good to build upon




nice thread

[AFK]

i think at the bottom of it, the BIP is saying: you can't escape 'the prison' in this life, but you can change it. knowing that you are free to change it sort of stops it being a prison really. instead it becomes a life-long interior renovation project.

or something like that. maybe.

This is the correct hammer hitting the correct head of the correct nail.

There are limitations we have as humans.  The walls of the prison represent that boundary, but it isn't static.  As Mang mentions, we have the ability to redecorate, but we can only do that if we actually see the walls.  For someone who doesn't see it, they don't realize where they are.  They don't see how the cell they are in is affecting them.  Perhaps their walls are made up of coercion and pressure from friends, family, teachers, society at large, to "live a certain way."  That you have to do X,Y, and Z to become the lawyer, to make the bucks, to buy the car, to get the girl, to have the blonde, blue-eyed kids, etc., etc.,   They can't see how the path, the prison cell is stifling them.  That happiness can be found in different cells that can be reached by walking down different hallways.  There are more options if you just open yourself up to them. 

But, you don't know if you don't see. 

[Sir Perineal]

i think at the bottom of it, the BIP is saying: you can't escape 'the prison' in this life, but you can change it. knowing that you are free to change it sort of stops it being a prison really. instead it becomes a life-long interior renovation project.

or something like that. maybe.

I suppose this does boil down to a "free will thread" so to speak.

Okay, so we can't escape the prison.  Everyone here seems to agree with that, right?

But can you really say that you are able to change it?  How do you know freedom to make alterations is not just as illusory as the freedom to escape?

[LHX]

by confronting taboos and assessing the validity of fears and apprehensions you can make changes


ive said it before (repeatedly)
but it still bears repeating:

nobody likes martyrs

there is a fine line between freedom and martyrdom
but

there are apprehensions that people have that are very restricting

the fear of death is the biggest one

and that one can be changed (but it aint easy)


ive actually been thinking about this - how to give a person the tools they need to go from 'please dont hurt me' to 'Or Kill Me'

[Triple Zero]

But can you really say that you are able to change it?  How do you know freedom to make alterations is not just as illusory as the freedom to escape?

for me, because that sounds like a pretty lousy excuse for not even wanting to try.


but even then, srslsy, in some philosophy course i once took, i had to learn a big discussion about free will, and basically the answer is, as long as you continue reasoning in a rational manner, you get nowhere, no denial no support, just simply nowhere. there have been a multitude of theories, and they all have been brought down, and the counterarguments too, etc ad nauseum.

the trick is, usually while reading all that stuff, people tend to stick at one or another of these theories because it fits their worldview best. or maybe they form their own "better" theory in the mean time.

but don't assume that we have all the answers, better take a trip, search free+will+philosophy in google, click around a bit, see if you can come up with anything.

my personal answer lies in chaos theory, free will as a strange attractor in the chaotic system of our body. i got there because it fit most problems of the stuff i was reading back then and evades most of the problems and didn't end up at the determinist/nihilist concept of "there is no free will" which i simply dislike.
i haven't in fact tried to apply it to the notion of escaping/redecorating the BIP though, i'll try that out some time (not now, it's late)

[LHX]

'free will' and 'responsibility' can live together

the same way order and disorder live together


if you dont utilize your freedom, then you will get weighed down by responsibility
if you dont attend to your responsibility, then you are stripped of your freedom


the responsibilities are generically covered by most religions, but are done so in a way that suffocates people