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Discussion of Depression

Started by AFK, February 13, 2007, 02:48:35 PM

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LMNO


Cain

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:21:11 PM
Let's also not forget that depression can also be attributed to a specific mixture of chemicals in the brain, and sometimes we have no direct control over it. 

We can do things, lke excercise, affirmations (more of the "fuck you, I won't take this lying down!" variety as opposed to the "I'm a good person and people like me" type), and medication; but often, depression is not a choice.

On the other hand, sometimes it is a choice.  I know I've been in self-imposed bad moods and black depressions, and I've been known to wallow in them.

True, but I thought we were discussing a more metaphysical depression than chemical.

Triple Zero

#17
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 13, 2007, 06:27:29 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:21:11 PMChicken and egg I always thought. Kinda like fat people and metabolism. Diet, lifestyle and (probably) a degree of positive thinking is recommended to break the cycle, neurochemistry gradually follows suit. Professional sources also will proscribe chemical modulation, at least initially.

's true, but some people are also born with a depressive disorder. fortunately there's medication for those.

Quote from: LMNO, in the post belowI'm thinking the quote tags are a bit off, there.

's true, but you can figure it out right?
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

LMNO

I'm thinking the quote tags are a bit off, there.

LMNO

Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2007, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:21:11 PM
Let's also not forget that depression can also be attributed to a specific mixture of chemicals in the brain, and sometimes we have no direct control over it. 

We can do things, lke excercise, affirmations (more of the "fuck you, I won't take this lying down!" variety as opposed to the "I'm a good person and people like me" type), and medication; but often, depression is not a choice.

On the other hand, sometimes it is a choice.  I know I've been in self-imposed bad moods and black depressions, and I've been known to wallow in them.

True, but I thought we were discussing a more metaphysical depression than chemical.

But wouldn't you say that even metaphysical depression has a chemical effect on the brain?

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
You were/are bipolar, right?



LOL 'are' is the 64kilobuck question. Lets say I choose not to use the paradigm.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
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walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

AFK

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:33:20 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2007, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:21:11 PM
Let's also not forget that depression can also be attributed to a specific mixture of chemicals in the brain, and sometimes we have no direct control over it.  

We can do things, lke excercise, affirmations (more of the "fuck you, I won't take this lying down!" variety as opposed to the "I'm a good person and people like me" type), and medication; but often, depression is not a choice.

On the other hand, sometimes it is a choice.  I know I've been in self-imposed bad moods and black depressions, and I've been known to wallow in them.

True, but I thought we were discussing a more metaphysical depression than chemical.

But wouldn't you say that even metaphysical depression has a chemical effect on the brain?

It seems possible.  Someone can get themselves in a real funk, for whatever reason, it would seem eventually some sort of chemical or reaction in the brain is allowing it to continue.  Then, if they come out of it, what causes that?  Do we somehow will the chemicals or the reactions to cease, or does it just happen on its own?
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Thurnez Isa

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:21:11 PM
Let's also not forget that depression can also be attributed to a specific mixture of chemicals in the brain, and sometimes we have no direct control over it. 


for sure



some of this rash of depression in the Western 20th Century culture I think has to do with lack of fantasy
since we're stuck this this self-absorbed consumeristic controled enviroment so much of our idenity is moided from our base desires and this rush to quickly fullfill them
when something happens that the we get so locked up in fulfilling these desires sometimes it becomes such a false fullfillment that one's actual dreams and desires, were are destroyed throughout childhood, start to surface. The psyche can not handle this loss of its social identiy so it starts to unravel

20 Century Western Idenity = Consumtion at the detriment of owns dreams
Unable to No Longer Conform to this 20th Century Consumer Individuality = Breakdown of Idenity
Breakdown of ones idenity = 1) Feeling of hopelessness and deprived sense of one's place in society
or, (and this is more rare)
2) A Process of Peeling through the Layers of Idenity
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

LMNO

Quote from: SillyCybin on February 13, 2007, 06:37:08 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
You were/are bipolar, right?



LOL 'are' is the 64kilobuck question. Lets say I choose not to use the paradigm.


My brother's the same way, but he considers it to be Thetan Bodies these days.

Anyway, I was with him when he started sliding into the depressive part.  I didn't see a "chicken/egg" thing, and I'm pretty sure force of will wouldn't have gotten him back to an even keel.

Then again, he seems ok now.  At the same time, my cousin has it too, and all she did was medicate until she "stabilized".

So, I have no direct experience with it, but I have seen it up close.  Do you think the "cycle" can really be broken by means not involving the intake of neuralchemistry?

LMNO

Quote2) A Process of Peeling through the Layers of Idenity
So, is that where we are right now at this forum?

Thurnez Isa

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:47:00 PM
Quote2) A Process of Peeling through the Layers of Idenity
So, is that where we are right now at this forum?

honestly
I revert back and forth...
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

LHX

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:47:00 PM
Quote2) A Process of Peeling through the Layers of Idenity
So, is that where we are right now at this forum?

it would take a outside observer that already been thru it to make that conclusion

but
my hunch is you are probably accurate
neat hell

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:46:22 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 13, 2007, 06:37:08 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:28:46 PM
You were/are bipolar, right?



LOL 'are' is the 64kilobuck question. Lets say I choose not to use the paradigm.


My brother's the same way, but he considers it to be Thetan Bodies these days.

Anyway, I was with him when he started sliding into the depressive part.  I didn't see a "chicken/egg" thing, and I'm pretty sure force of will wouldn't have gotten him back to an even keel.

Then again, he seems ok now.  At the same time, my cousin has it too, and all she did was medicate until she "stabilized".

So, I have no direct experience with it, but I have seen it up close.  Do you think the "cycle" can really be broken by means not involving the intake of neuralchemistry?

Absolutely. I kicked the lithium as soon as the law stopped demanding I take it and never looked back. I can guarantee this method works but, conversely I would be reluctant to recommend it to anyone. Maybe I got lucky, maybe my will was where it needed to be, I'd imagine that doing it this way would have a very low success rate. I was extreme bipolar. Went from suicide watch to full blown total sensory hallucinations at the up end. Somewhere in the maelstrom I managed to gain access to bits of me that I wouldn't imagine many bipolar sufferers would.

The real bitch for me is avoiding the temptation to upswing. There's so much creativity and energy that I will occasionally push the limits just a tad, when working on an art project or something similar, knowing full well that I'll have to pay the piper on the flip flop by spending a couple of "Can't be fucking arsed" days before I balance out. As long as I don't get greedy It's really no big deal.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 06:46:22 PM

My brother's the same way, but he considers it to be Thetan Bodies these days.


To be honest as long as he has some accessible way to deal with/avoid thetans I'd say pretty much any system of visualisation would work. Choose your own placebo. I suspect with your brother tho he hasn't consciously choosen to adopt this belief system. Then there's the risk of someone shouting "The thetans are here"

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Cain

Anecdotal evidence: I believe Nietzsche became heavily and continually depressed after reading The Ego and His Own by Max Stirner, or something by Schopenhauer.  His response was Thus Spake Zarathustra, as a metaphysical escape from a depression that was both mental and philosophical.