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Separation of church and YOUR FACE

Started by LMNO, October 09, 2012, 02:01:29 PM

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Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 07:06:28 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:44:54 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
PS. Not read the Gospel of Judas, though I do think I either have that in my library somewhere or have a commentary on it that I have not got 'round to.

Look it up online.  Seriously, it's a must-read.  If it was readable.  Stars fighting each other in the sky, etc.

Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
I've not read Luke in any detail.

It's worth reading.  It's the sort of thing that attracted the poor into the church in the early days.

Sort of like Revelation, which is NOTHING like it's portrayed to be by the religious nuts.  It's more a promise that people will, at some point, get precisely what they deserve.

For example, look up revelation 11:18 sometime.  The republicans don't like that verse much.

Aha. Thanks for the tips Rog. I just checked my books...I actually have 'Beyond Belief' by Elaine Pagels which is actually about the Gospel of Thomas and not of Judas.

I would ask Mrs Mang about the Bible for, once upon a very long time ago, she was a Baptist and she knows the book far better than I. Though, my attempt to discuss Revelation with in the past was short lived.

Me: So, when you were in the church, what did you think of Revelation?
Mrs Mang: TL/DR....thought it was scary, freaked me out and didn't read it.

Pity.  It's great stuff, but it's commonly misrepresented as God going batshit on everyone and his dog.  It isn't.

Quote from: Revelation 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Good point. Back in the day before Mrs Mang became a born-again Heathen, she went to Bible study classes. While in that reality tunnel, she said that everyone were deeply impressed by their pastor because he had gone to school and studied the Bible deeply. And being something of an asshole at times I asked:

Me: So, Pastor **** can read Latin, Greek & Hebrew?
Mrs Mang: No.
Me: Where did he study theology?
Mrs Mang: At a bible college....in the South.
Me: Then you weren't studying the Bible...it's just endlessly rehashing the particular interpretation agreed by the Southern Baptists.

And so we get locked into the same tired interpretations over and over again. The fun part is that the bits that Baptists really like to harp on about like The Rapture aren't even in the damn book to begin with. All the 'floating zombie at the end of days' silliness came out of a crank Scottish minister in the 19th century. Nothing to do with Revelation at all.

I think there's something in the NT about being "caught up in the clouds with Jesus", but who the fuck knows what it's referring too.
Mushrooms works for me.  :lol:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 07:06:28 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:44:54 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
PS. Not read the Gospel of Judas, though I do think I either have that in my library somewhere or have a commentary on it that I have not got 'round to.

Look it up online.  Seriously, it's a must-read.  If it was readable.  Stars fighting each other in the sky, etc.

Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
I've not read Luke in any detail.

It's worth reading.  It's the sort of thing that attracted the poor into the church in the early days.

Sort of like Revelation, which is NOTHING like it's portrayed to be by the religious nuts.  It's more a promise that people will, at some point, get precisely what they deserve.

For example, look up revelation 11:18 sometime.  The republicans don't like that verse much.

Aha. Thanks for the tips Rog. I just checked my books...I actually have 'Beyond Belief' by Elaine Pagels which is actually about the Gospel of Thomas and not of Judas.

I would ask Mrs Mang about the Bible for, once upon a very long time ago, she was a Baptist and she knows the book far better than I. Though, my attempt to discuss Revelation with in the past was short lived.

Me: So, when you were in the church, what did you think of Revelation?
Mrs Mang: TL/DR....thought it was scary, freaked me out and didn't read it.

Pity.  It's great stuff, but it's commonly misrepresented as God going batshit on everyone and his dog.  It isn't.

Quote from: Revelation 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Good point. Back in the day before Mrs Mang became a born-again Heathen, she went to Bible study classes. While in that reality tunnel, she said that everyone were deeply impressed by their pastor because he had gone to school and studied the Bible deeply. And being something of an asshole at times I asked:

Me: So, Pastor **** can read Latin, Greek & Hebrew?
Mrs Mang: No.
Me: Where did he study theology?
Mrs Mang: At a bible college....in the South.
Me: Then you weren't studying the Bible...it's just endlessly rehashing the particular interpretation agreed by the Southern Baptists.

And so we get locked into the same tired interpretations over and over again. The fun part is that the bits that Baptists really like to harp on about like The Rapture aren't even in the damn book to begin with. All the 'floating zombie at the end of days' silliness came out of a crank Scottish minister in the 19th century. Nothing to do with Revelation at all.

Well, that's exactly it.  They took a book that - while admitedly deranged - discusses the judgement of the rich and powerful, and used it as a tool to scare the shit out of the proletariat.

If you read it on your own, with that in mind, it's a whole different book, no matter what you actually believe with respect to the religion.  It's like hearing Libertarians spout off about Adam Smith for 30 years (as I did) before actually reading Wealth of Nations myself, and realizing that Libertarians are retards.  Adam Smith has to be the most misquoted man ever.  Aside from whomever wrote the new testament, I mean.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

On the other hand, I only read the old testament on those nights when Warren Ellis isn't weird enough.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 10, 2012, 08:31:37 PM
I just read it for the Begats.

It's all smiting and begetting.  Non-stop.

And then Jezebel... :lulz:...Jezebel gets KILLED via defenestration by the GOOD GUY for NOT betraying her husband.  And THEN she gets a posthumous reputation as a whore for STAYING LOYAL to her husband.

That part cracks me up.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Internet Jesus

#80
Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2012, 03:23:41 PM
As I understand it, that was also the standard evangelical position prior to the 1970s.  Involvement in politics of any kind would distract from God's work, therefore the thing to do was to pay your taxes, do what was required insofar as it didn't violate Christian ethics (ie; the draft) and get on with the business of saving souls.  I think some preachers even compared voting to gambling...the logic was a bit convoluted, but the prohibition that engendered was pretty strong.

And since nowadays Christians seem to spend more time bashing gays and arguing for foreign wars than spreading the word of Jesus, I think the idea that getting involved in politics would distract from God's work to be a fairly valid point.

That's my understanding as well and also at some level why I kind of hope the Jesus freaks are right, because Jesus is gonna spit them out for being lukewarm. (Rev 3:16)
HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS!

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 10, 2012, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2012, 03:23:41 PM
As I understand it, that was also the standard evangelical position prior to the 1970s.  Involvement in politics of any kind would distract from God's work, therefore the thing to do was to pay your taxes, do what was required insofar as it didn't violate Christian ethics (ie; the draft) and get on with the business of saving souls.  I think some preachers even compared voting to gambling...the logic was a bit convoluted, but the prohibition that engendered was pretty strong.

And since nowadays Christians seem to spend more time bashing gays and arguing for foreign wars than spreading the word of Jesus, I think the idea that getting involved in politics would distract from God's work to be a fairly valid point.

That's my understanding as well and also at some level why I kind of hope the Jesus freaks are right, because Jesus is gonna spit them out for being lukewarm. (Rev 3:16)

My guess is that "shat upon from a great height" would take on a whole new meaning.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Much of Revelation is symbolic. Various beasts representing governments, just as we see in Daniel. The lake of burning fire symbolizing eternal destruction. Indeed it was called Gehenna, gehenna was a place outside the walls of Jerusalem where the garbage was dumped and burned. There was always fire/smoke in gehenna, but it wasn't burning the same trash over and over forever ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Internet Jesus

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on October 10, 2012, 09:09:16 PM
Much of Revelation is symbolic. Various beasts representing governments, just as we see in Daniel. The lake of burning fire symbolizing eternal destruction. Indeed it was called Gehenna, gehenna was a place outside the walls of Jerusalem where the garbage was dumped and burned. There was always fire/smoke in gehenna, but it wasn't burning the same trash over and over forever ;-)

One guys symbolism is another's misunderstood literalism.
HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS!

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on October 10, 2012, 09:09:16 PM
Much of Revelation is symbolic. Various beasts representing governments, just as we see in Daniel. The lake of burning fire symbolizing eternal destruction. Indeed it was called Gehenna, gehenna was a place outside the walls of Jerusalem where the garbage was dumped and burned. There was always fire/smoke in gehenna, but it wasn't burning the same trash over and over forever ;-)

You'll be laughing out the other side of your neck when the 7-headed beastie eats you and your car.

Nobody likes a smartass. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

This interpretation of an apocryphal 1600-4000 year old series of books brought to you by the History Channel, the same people that brought you "The History of UFOs".  Please to ignore the anachronisms required for this interpretation.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

deadfong

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
PS. Not read the Gospel of Judas, though I do think I either have that in my library somewhere or have a commentary on it that I have not got 'round to.

Look it up online.  Seriously, it's a must-read.  If it was readable.  Stars fighting each other in the sky, etc.

The Gospel of Judas is one side of a second-century fight about who Christians should follow.  The author of Judas felt that any church that based its
ritual and doctrinal practice on the authority of the apostles was leading Christians astray.  The Eucharist, in particular, offended him, because it's a
reenactment of the human sacrifice of Jesus, and human sacrifice is not a good thing; it's actually an offering to Nebro/Ialdabaoth, the chief archon
and ruler of this world.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 10:10:51 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on October 10, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
PS. Not read the Gospel of Judas, though I do think I either have that in my library somewhere or have a commentary on it that I have not got 'round to.

Look it up online.  Seriously, it's a must-read.  If it was readable.  Stars fighting each other in the sky, etc.

The Gospel of Judas is one side of a second-century fight about who Christians should follow.  The author of Judas felt that any church that based its
ritual and doctrinal practice on the authority of the apostles was leading Christians astray.  The Eucharist, in particular, offended him, because it's a
reenactment of the human sacrifice of Jesus, and human sacrifice is not a good thing; it's actually an offering to Nebro/Ialdabaoth, the chief archon
and ruler of this world.

That's funny, because I've read it, and it's nothing like that.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

The wikipedia short & dirty:

QuoteIn contrast to the canonical gospels which paint Judas as a betrayer of Christ who delivered him up to the authorities for crucifixion, the Gospel of Judas portrays Judas's actions as done in obedience to instructions given by Christ. The document also suggests that Christ planned the course of events which led to his death. This portrayal seems to conform to a notion current in some forms of Gnosticism, that the human form is a spiritual prison, that Judas thus served Christ by helping to release Christ's soul from its physical constraints, and that two kinds of human beings exist: the men furnished with the immortal soul which is "from the eternal realms" and "will abide there always" ("the strong and holy generation...with no ruler over it", to whom Judas belongs), and the other ones, the majority of mankind, who are mortal and therefore unable to reach the salvation. The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew about Jesus's true teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that they had not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot, the sole follower belonging to the "holy generation" among the disciples.

Also, stars fighting in the sky, and Jesus laughing a lot and telling Judas that EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

JW's actually interpret the 7 headed wild beast as the United Nations, with Babyon the Whore (all the christian religions that are in bed with politics) riding it. The horn that "speaks blasphemous things" is the UN trying to create world peace, which is only possible through Jesus Kingdom. They also believe that the Beast will turn on the Harlot and kill her, that is, the governments will recoginize that most of the worlds problems stem from religion, so they'll turn on religion, destroying it utterly and that is the beginning of the Great Tribulation which precedes Armeggedon.

JW's see all other Christian religions the way that Evangelical protestants see the Catholics. 
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson