What is Chi?

[Kai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

Its the Body-Kinesthetic intelligence I am talking about. Balance and coordination are the things you would generally associate with this, but Chi, I think, would be a deeper understanding of this intelligence.

One of the things I don't like about this "theory" is that people always assume intelligence is fixed, that people are just born with what they have and they make use. This is bullshit. You can develop kinesthetic intelligence the same as you can develop verbal-linguistic intelligence. Also, just because you are an athelete doesn't mean you have high kinesthetic intelligence. It could just mean you are stronger and faster. The actual intelligence part of that doesn't depend on how strong or fast you are, but how coordinated and balanced you are, things that can be cultuvated regardless of muscular ability.

Rambling....

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I'm jumping in here a bit late, but I'd like to add another perspective that hasn't been discussed.

Why does it follow that control over largely unconscious processes is desirable? It's one thing to have control and it's another to know what to do with them and when.

Think about driving a car or riding a bicycle. When you first learned how to do it you had to think about everything you were doing, drawing your attention away from traffic, parked cars, etc.

You knew that you mastered driving or riding a bike when you didn't have to consciously think about what you were doing—freeing up your conscious mind for other things.

After spending a few years studying and practicing pranayama, various meditations, hypnosis, NLP, and my own combinations of the techniques I came to the conclusion that it was indeed possible to have too much control over breathing, posture, and bodily rhythms of all sorts. At some point I think it's imperative to cede control back to your unconscious mind.

At the beginning stages its fun to play with warmth, euphoria, confidence and whatnot. And it's an important thing to do. It validates that your efforts have tangible results. Cain said a few pages ago that, "... it is something of a placebo, a psychological effect manifested through belief which does not, in fact, objectively exist." This is a common misunderstanding of placebos. Placebos don't necessarily result in actual effects but many times there is a measurable effect.

I'm endlessly amused that we know that placebos conflate scientific research but know very little about what actually occurs on neurobiological level to create these effects. I have a hunch that it's behind the big blind spot in biology that is intercellular communication.

Very interesting stuff going on all around in this thread. I'm glad I had time to read through it.

[wade]

So, the Dan'tien/hara sensation is caused by arterial flow. Thats very interesting. It also helps me find and focus on the that spot, knowing the physiology. If I ever have any contact with martial artists talking about the center ever again, I'll be sure to mention its where the aorta splits into the illiac nerves and the vessels both contract, increasing blood pressure.

Well, I can't say for certain that that _is_ the spot or the cause of the feelings. Most descriptions of the hara put it about 2 inches below the navel, and identify it more with the physical center of gravity, which may be in a different area for different people of different builds than the aorta/iliac artery split is. But! Concentrating on that spot, and feeling the pulse there is a sleight-of-mind trick to getting the attention focused in generally the correct area. I've read anecdotal medical stories that focusing attention increases blood pressure and temperature in things like the extremities, so there may definitely be a connection. Without medical studies I don't want to go drawing erroneous conclusions, but rather would focus on how to achieve success with the exercises described in the martial arts tradition.

Still, this is one of the most interesting and useful tidbits I've picked up from studying martail arts esoterica. Glad I could share it.

for what it's worth, i developed a technique while running that has indeed helped me out a ton.  I've noticed a large increase of endurance from the point I started to use the technique.

[Telarus]

Found an interesting quote. Notice the URL.
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem102

In the pioneering work by Shinagawa (31) and Kawano et al. (36), it was shown that Qi-energy emitted from a Qigong healer carried some form of information. They demonstrated that the brainwave distributions of both the volunteer and the healer became synchronized even when Qi was sent from behind the volunteer.

[Fractalbeard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNFSrWytq8s

I've met this guy in person, my Taichi teacher had him come over from Taiwan to teach a series of seminars.  From what I've read so far, y'all are pointing towards what he was saying (and my teacher keeps saying).

BTW, couldn't even touch this guy.  Well, I could, but he let me, and then I couldn't let go.  Until I slammed into an object.

[Telarus]

The quote from the above article was just a little snippet taken out of their closing. The entire article is really worth reading thro. They have correlated Ki activity with energy in the near-infrared range, and produced repeatable effects involving bouncing it with mirrors.

Here's an earlier study by the same people from 2006:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1475930

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

So, the Dan'tien/hara sensation is caused by arterial flow. Thats very interesting. It also helps me find and focus on the that spot, knowing the physiology. If I ever have any contact with martial artists talking about the center ever again, I'll be sure to mention its where the aorta splits into the illiac nerves and the vessels both contract, increasing blood pressure.

Well, I can't say for certain that that _is_ the spot or the cause of the feelings. Most descriptions of the hara put it about 2 inches below the navel, and identify it more with the physical center of gravity, which may be in a different area for different people of different builds than the aorta/iliac artery split is. But! Concentrating on that spot, and feeling the pulse there is a sleight-of-mind trick to getting the attention focused in generally the correct area. I've read anecdotal medical stories that focusing attention increases blood pressure and temperature in things like the extremities, so there may definitely be a connection. Without medical studies I don't want to go drawing erroneous conclusions, but rather would focus on how to achieve success with the exercises described in the martial arts tradition.

Still, this is one of the most interesting and useful tidbits I've picked up from studying martail arts esoterica. Glad I could share it.

for what it's worth, i developed a technique while running that has indeed helped me out a ton.  I've noticed a large increase of endurance from the point I started to use the technique.

Do tell.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I consider it mostly to be a model that's useful for allowing the self to do certain things that other models aren't as likely to let you do. Like magic, or science, or method acting, or alcoholism. Whether it's "true", or testable, or whatever doesn't really matter, as long as it's useful. I'd prefer useful abilities to testable ones any day. If a placebo works, who cares if it's a sugar pill?

[Kai]

That is true. I think most of the people in this thread are in agreement that it likely does work and thats a cool or good thing, however you want to say it.

The concept of this thread is to ask what it is, rather than if it works.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That is true. I think most of the people in this thread are in agreement that it likely does work and thats a cool or good thing, however you want to say it.

The concept of this thread is to ask what it is, rather than if it works.

It 'IS" Chi*.



*Rather, it is Chi, if we're using a model that labels it as Chi.

[Elder Iptuous]

 

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

That is true. I think most of the people in this thread are in agreement that it likely does work and thats a cool or good thing, however you want to say it.

The concept of this thread is to ask what it is, rather than if it works.

It 'IS" Chi*.



*Rather, it is Chi, if we're using a model that labels it as Chi.

I hereby declare that anything that works, could work, or may work shall be labeled Chi, or some other label that is a label (such as "label"), and everything else will be labeled as something else.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That is true. I think most of the people in this thread are in agreement that it likely does work and thats a cool or good thing, however you want to say it.

The concept of this thread is to ask what it is, rather than if it works.

It 'IS" Chi*.



*Rather, it is Chi, if we're using a model that labels it as Chi.

I hereby declare that anything that works, could work, or may work shall be labeled Chi, or some other label that is a label (such as "label"), and everything else will be labeled as something else.

But, if the person describing it (or experiencing it) isn't using a model that has the label Chi, maybe it will be "Energy" or "Power" or "Kia" or "The Holy Ghost" or "Insert some label here"...

As to what it "IS"...

Well, I'd say it IS 'interesting'.... 

[Kai]

That is true. I think most of the people in this thread are in agreement that it likely does work and thats a cool or good thing, however you want to say it.

The concept of this thread is to ask what it is, rather than if it works.

It 'IS" Chi*.



*Rather, it is Chi, if we're using a model that labels it as Chi.

I hereby declare that anything that works, could work, or may work shall be labeled Chi, or some other label that is a label (such as "label"), and everything else will be labeled as something else.

But, if the person describing it (or experiencing it) isn't using a model that has the label Chi, maybe it will be "Energy" or "Power" or "Kia" or "The Holy Ghost" or "Insert some label here"...

As to what it "IS"...

Well, I'd say it IS 'interesting'.... 

You know, the semantic games are fun for a while, but then they get old. There is a point at which you move beyond any sort of meaningful specific defining of terms and into...well trolling and mental masturbation.

It happens in science, people arguing over whether Dipseudopsidae is pronounced "Di-seeu-do-sih-dee" or "dip-seeu-dop-sih-dee" or even "di-seeu-dop-sih-dee". You just want to say Pick one already, so we can talk about it! Really.

[Telarus]

This.


And anyway, if you read the last two links I posted, they claim to have measured near-infrared wavelengths as on of the energy components to Chi/Ki/Qi. I'm not _too_ sure how well controled their experiemtn was, but it was interesting to read about, none the less.

I'm digging up more research now.