Why has Feminism become a Dirty Word? and Other Misogyny on the Internet.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Feminism became a dirty word around the time when the militant lesbian man hater stereotype was established. For guys who are down on women it's an easy target, just like athiests latch on to radical fundamentalists and racists latch on to terrurists and gangstas and whatever the fuck else.

From my pov, speaking as one of the lucky ones who is a white, male, heterosexual heathen I do not question for one minute the validity of things like the feminist movement and it's ilk in race or sexual orientation spheres but I do quite clearly see that for every person who's opinion is turned by them there are X amount who it causes to dig their fucked up attitude's heels in deeper.

The more I look at it it's not something that I think lends itself to a cause like Feminism^tm It's more about destroying fuckheads. Maybe if women got together with blacks and gays and wasps like me and formed an anti-fuckhead movement it'd have a greater effect. I mean, other than the target of their dumb, what exactly is the difference between racism, sexism, homophobia and whatever the hell else? Is there any real advantage in fragmenting the counter attack?

The Straw Feminist trope has a lot to answer for.

Intersectionality in fighting inequality is very important to most of the feminists I know, especially myself, and to some extent fragmentation isn't helpful, however, I as a white, straight mostly hetero woman have no real personal experience of racism, apart from some minor anti-Irish shit, but the internet is wonderful thing and myself, personally, keep an equal eye on all kinds of reports on prejudice.

This is my point. You think that, unless you're a minority, you know nowt about racism or without being gay you know nowt about homophobia so you fight your own corner, at best half the population of the planet. All the blacks do the same, significantly less than half the planet. And the gays (even less than that?) And the rest of the planet? The ones who don't get racisted or sexisted? We know fuck all. We can't possibly understand what it's like, right?

Well, don't take this personally but that's bullshit. I know everything I need to know about sexism, racism, homophobia and everything else. Wan't to know what I know? Simple - there's some dumb shits making a whole bunch of people's lives a fucking misery. There's no difference in principle between a woman getting told she was asking to be raped cos she had a little short skirt on and a brown guy with a funny hat getting beaten up on a street corner cos his type flew planes into the world trade center. The only difference is the superficial shit - colour of skin, genital arrangement.

So the feminists are fighting for shit with an army yay big and the blacks are fighting for shit with an army yay big and the chinese and the gays and they're basically all fighting exactly the same shit, save for a different haircut and none of them have a chance in hell. Time to try a different approach methinks. Bigger army might be a place to start.

[Placid Dingo]

Kyriachy is a great word. It solidifies some ideas I as having about privilege as a fluid shifting concept- eg men have the privlage over women of not being blamed for being the victim of sexual
Assault, but women have the privilege over men of being openly homosexual or bi without threat of violence or social rejection.

Im not sure where I fit in thinking 'does challenging all prejudice fit into feminism? Or does it all need it's own catorgory. Does breaking free of male gender roles actually fit in the feminism umbrella, or is it just women for whom this brand of liberation falls under feminist philosophy. I'm not widely read up on it enough to really have a strong view.

I know a good female friends who doesn't consider herself feminist, because she thinks it's part of an older time. Now, women are equal, can vote, cand do the same jobs etc, so the jobs done.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

She thinks the job is done? Does she know she's legally pregnant in Arizona? 

[Placid Dingo]

Well Australia's no Arizona, even where I am.

Anyway, I was going to make another point, tangentially which is that men (or women) who identify as sadistic or dominant don't necessarily believe those things politically (ie, enjoy spanking a pretty lady but don't think a woman belongs in the kitchen). What turns you on isn't by default connected to what you believe.

That said, if I hear someone calling themself a dominant/sadist I do suspect they're a deuce until proven otherwise.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Kyriachy is a great word. It solidifies some ideas I as having about privilege as a fluid shifting concept- eg men have the privlage over women of not being blamed for being the victim of sexual
Assault, but women have the privilege over men of being openly homosexual or bi without threat of violence or social rejection.

Im not sure where I fit in thinking 'does challenging all prejudice fit into feminism? Or does it all need it's own catorgory. Does breaking free of male gender roles actually fit in the feminism umbrella, or is it just women for whom this brand of liberation falls under feminist philosophy. I'm not widely read up on it enough to really have a strong view.

I know a good female friends who doesn't consider herself feminist, because she thinks it's part of an older time. Now, women are equal, can vote, cand do the same jobs etc, so the jobs done.

Women are equal under law, but in practice, that is debatable. The gap in pay for people doing the same jobs hasn't been eradicated. the shame and blame game when it comes to sexuality and sexual assault is far from over.  Women are still being genitally mutilated and interestingly women who transition to men get their performance in the workplace rated higher than when they presented as women.

I would consider breaking free of the gender binary for men and women to be a goal of feminists. We are about as post-sexist as we are post-racist!

The aim of feminism in the 21st century is working to enable a cultural shift, not necessarily a legal one by and large, which is arguably a bigger task than getting the legal rights that were won by the first and second wave of feminism. Legal battles such as laws against marital rape were only enacted within the last half century, and as late as 1997 in Germany, and 1991 in the UK, and are not an international concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape.

Men showing what ate socially considered feminine traits are still ridiculed, and whereas being a tomboy is considered not that abberant, boys doing things "like a girl" are still ridiculed by a good portion of western society.

I'll be going into some of the sexist attitudes in science in a different thread, so I'm not going to expound on that here, but as someone who obviously IS a feminist, and completely anti-fuckhead.

Kyriarchy imho is a better concept than patriarchy,  (thanks Peas!) as it describes all kinds of privilege as they stand, and is a lot less alienating in its terminology.

[Placid Dingo]

Bang on Pixie. Ftw, I tend to call myself a feminist.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is a great conversation... thanks Pixie!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

Nailed it!

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

WOO! Now we just need to womp Roger's head onto Patrick Stewart's while he wears his "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt.

This is a great conversation... thanks Pixie!

eh, just bringing my new line of thought/BIP back to share with PeeDee. I think this may just have been the most successful thread I have ever started.

Took me 3 years hahaha!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

WOO! Now we just need to womp Roger's head onto Patrick Stewart's while he wears his "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

WOO! Now we just need to womp Roger's head onto Patrick Stewart's while he wears his "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt.

PeeDee- All a bunch of cranky Angry Feminists, even the menz. (I can has newsfeed nao?)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

WOO! Now we just need to womp Roger's head onto Patrick Stewart's while he wears his "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt.

PeeDee- All a bunch of cranky Angry Feminists, even the menz. (I can has newsfeed nao?)

Actually, IIRC, I'm an ANGRY BLACK WOMAN.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

If feminism means that all people, of any gender, race, or orientation, etc, should have the same rights as human beings, then I am a feminist.

WOO! Now we just need to womp Roger's head onto Patrick Stewart's while he wears his "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt.

PeeDee- All a bunch of cranky Angry Feminists, even the menz. (I can has newsfeed nao?)

Actually, IIRC, I'm an ANGRY BLACK WOMAN.

And a very beautiful fairy princess ANGRY BLACK WOMAN.

[Juana]

...but women have the privilege over men of being openly homosexual or bi without threat of violence or social rejection.

No we don't. Bisexual female = heterosexual faking it for male attention (so far as the gay community is concerned). Bisexual or lesbian female = sex object or (too often) a bitch who needs to be fucked by a real man to turn her back.
Which is why I am very, very careful about who I talk to about this/allow to know.

Im not sure where I fit in thinking 'does challenging all prejudice fit into feminism? Or does it all need it's own catorgory. Does breaking free of male gender roles actually fit in the feminism umbrella, or is it just women for whom this brand of liberation falls under feminist philosophy. I'm not widely read up on it enough to really have a strong view.

I know a good female friends who doesn't consider herself feminist, because she thinks it's part of an older time. Now, women are equal, can vote, cand do the same jobs etc, so the jobs done.

Intersectionality and to quote bell hooks: "Feminism is for everyone" (although there is some disagreement in the community, I agree with hooks - if you think a female is actually a person, just like a male, then you're a feminist imo)
Also, I have a link to a lot of books you can download and read which talk about this subject(s).
And your friend is blind.