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Tennessee getting ready to throw poor students under the bus.

Started by Bruno, April 04, 2013, 08:31:47 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 08, 2013, 11:50:46 PM
i'd say that's a relative statement. I'm defining "hard" as "investing energy into something"...it takes mental effort to construct hateful arguments online for the senseless pissing matches that occur on the internet...and it took the energy stored in vast resources of man power and zyklon B to enact the hate of the holocaust.

Hate, like all activities takes energy. Because it pits beings against each other and forces irrational struggle, it consumes an unduely high amount of energy.

Perhaps for you.  For me, it's sort of like Satori.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

tyrannosaurus vex

Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 08, 2013, 11:50:46 PM
i'd say that's a relative statement. I'm defining "hard" as "investing energy into something"...it takes mental effort to construct hateful arguments online for the senseless pissing matches that occur on the internet...and it took the energy stored in vast resources of man power and zyklon B to enact the hate of the holocaust.

Hate, like all activities takes energy. Because it pits beings against each other and forces irrational struggle, it consumes an unduely high amount of energy.

I like to think of hate as the infinite void between the imaginary swirls of energy we know as subatomic particles. It is an unending reservoir from which to draw, the eternal void from which all things emerge and to which all things return. Hate is the natural, undisturbed origin and culmination of the universe. Presently your physical form is in the process of dissolving into this hate-ether, as are all of the people and objects you know and love. Hate simply is. What requires energy is conjuring up a world to live in for a while so you can ignore it.

It's like nirvana, except instead of being guided to hate by many lifetime's worth of enlightenment, you arrive at hate against your will, kicking and screaming, trying to claw your way back in the way you came out. Which, all things considered, is sort of ironic.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

The Johnny


Why "cishet" instead of "hetcis"? Sounds like implying "Cis-shit" and on a pure phonetical level it IS.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: The Johnny on April 09, 2013, 12:09:58 AM

Why "cishet" instead of "hetcis"? Sounds like implying "Cis-shit" and on a pure phonetical level it IS.

I don't care if it's "petunia".  The fact is, in her mouth it's an epithet.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cainad (dec.)

Well, this thread blew up while I wasn't paying attention.

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Johnny

Quote from: Juana Go? on April 08, 2013, 11:19:04 PM

I wasn't going to post this one, because the dude is, hmm, a little angrier than I think is possibly constructive and perhaps a little dismissive of cishets, but I think it's pretty apt, since this is now about cis-ness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr1KOGQh5Lg
FTR, I don't find cishets/straight people annoying until they prove to be annoying as individual people. I also think you're conflating anger at the system and with the institutions with anger at individuals. The only time I'm angry with an individual - and I don't think I'm unique - is when that person behaves as part of the system.

***TRANSCRIPTION***

QuoteDude: Straight people are fucking awful, i hate straight men. Straight people ruin everything, did that offend you? What i just said.

Fuck this guy, seriously, if i get discriminated just because im straight i really can't muster the sympathy to help your little personal cause.

FIGHTING HATE WITH HATE, ALIENATING OUR POSSIBLE ALLIES.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 09, 2013, 12:14:27 AM
Well, this thread blew up while I wasn't paying attention.

That will happen.

:lulz:

WHO'S GOT TWO THUMBS AND THROWS GAS ON THE FIRE BY SAYING 'No wait guys, this schmuck might be worth our time to talk to?'

'DIS FUCKIN' GUY!

Juana

Listen to the rest of the video, Johnny. There's a reason he says what he says - responding with butthurt to underprivileged groups' anger at privileged groups is indicative of a person who doesn't understand their privilege. THE WHOLE REST OF THE SOCIETY is built to cater to the privileged, and whining because the underprivileged said "ugh, white/straight/whatever people" is making the issue about THEM instead of the system that causes an entire group to feel unsafe.


I have to say, I would feel bad if I thought this were motivated by anything other than Roger's butthurt, because a) if it weren't, you probably would have taken exception to the REST of the comment and b) it wasn't even directed at him. That smells like left over butthurt to me.


Vex, I wasn't accusing Roger/other known allies of cookie seeking. No one on this board has, to my knowledge, been a cookie seeker, because I think PD does a fairly good job at biped-ery. It's a lot of the rest of the world who does the cookie seeking behavior. And yes, actually, the way Roger responds to vocal anger at cishets as an institution is with anger/butthurt. Cishets as an institution kill a hell of a lot of queers every year and "ugh, cishets" (or similar sentiments directed at the institution) is really, really microscopic potatoes in comparison.

edited while answering more of Vex
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Juana

Quote from: V3X on April 08, 2013, 11:49:23 PM
What I want to know is -- again, as a spectator here -- at what point does one's privilege mark them for expanded scrutiny and skepticism when they renounce their entitlement to that privilege in favor of expanding the privilege to the status of a universal right for everyone? Is it when they have something to gain, personally, if the cause wins (other than the comforting knowledge that the cause won, that is)? If that's it, then why is it a problem if they do gain something if the cause wins? Is the cause mutually exclusive with every other kind of benefit to every other kind of person? At that point, is there perhaps a hint of entitlement associated with the cause itself, where a victory might not be considered "complete" if it becomes pinned to advancing some "lesser" goals for "lesser" people?
It's not an issue of special scrutiny. It's an issue of people not acting like cookie seekers*

*The cookie seeking behavior when a privileged person acts like the fact that they do not actively want to hurt/kill/oppress a group means they are ~brave~ and ~special~ instead of decent human beings. White people don't get cookies for being brave enough to think that PoC shouldn't have to deal with an inherently racist police and justice system. Cishets don't get cookies for thinking that queers deserve equal protection under the law, including access to domestic violence and homeless shelters. Sometimes - a lot of the time, even, depending on the issue - privileged people do act like that. It's very LOOK AT ME! LOOK HOW I'M DIFFERENT!



I feel like this thread should be re-named Summer of Feminism 2.0 or something.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Johnny

Quote from: Juana Go? on April 09, 2013, 12:30:37 AM
Listen to the rest of the video, Johnny. There's a reason he says what he says - responding with butthurt to underprivileged groups' anger at privileged groups is indicative of a person who doesn't understand their privilege. THE WHOLE REST OF THE SOCIETY is built to cater to the privileged, and whining because the underprivileged said "ugh, white/straight/whatever people" is making the issue about THEM instead of the system that causes an entire group to feel unsafe.

Fine, i'll transcribe the whole thing and we can nit-pick it.

Quote from: Juana Go? on April 09, 2013, 12:30:37 AM
I have to say, I would feel bad if I thought this were motivated by anything other than Roger's butthurt, because a) if it weren't, you probably would have taken exception to the REST of the comment and b) it wasn't even directed at him. That smells like left over butthurt to me.

This is utter madness Juana, i'm barely on civilized terms with Roger... are you implying that im sucking up to him? or that he has mind-lazors?... i commented on the video simply because it seems so flamboyantly ridiculous.

Left-over butthurt to who? You? I dont recall having an argument ever with you. Really wtf?
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Juana

"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Johnny


Would you mind being clearer then? Ill return later with the transcription, have some stuff to do right now.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Juana

Sure! I was trying to get that part out before someone jumped on it before I could properly respond.

You and I have never had an argument, Johnny, nor has there been MIND LAZOR/etc. comments, lol. My response should have been edited better, because like 24 responses (and one car trip) were had between the time I started and the time I clicked post.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Juana

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2013, 11:32:44 PM
Quote from: Juana Go? on April 08, 2013, 11:19:04 PM
Roger, they are so far away from identical, they're not even on the same planet.

IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN WE DO IT.
Last time: any criticisms I have made have been directed at institutions. The one and only personal comment I have made was directed at someone I think that we both, all other differences aside, can agree is an asshole.
Quote
QuoteI wasn't going to post this one, because the dude is, hmm, a little angrier than I think is possibly constructive and perhaps a little dismissive of cishets, but I think it's pretty apt, since this is now about cis-ness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr1KOGQh5Lg

No longer interested.  Like I said, FTS, YOYO.
I don't even know what that acronym means, but okay.

Quote
QuoteFTR, I don't find cishets/straight people annoying until they prove to be annoying as individual people. I also think you're conflating anger at the system and with the institutions with anger at individuals. The only time I'm angry with an individual - and I don't think I'm unique - is when that person behaves as part of the system.

Yeah, well, I find YOU annoying as an individual.  You said something offensive as hell, and you think it's just dandy because YOUR PRECIOUS SELF said it, so it's not the same as EVERY SINGLE BIGOTED COMMENT EVER MADE.
No, my comment was directed at ONE shit head who was acting in a manner typical of white cishet male privilege (WCHMP) as an institution. You continue to conflate criticism of the institution of WCHMP with criticism of the individual.

Quote
QuoteWe had this debate and I'm not interested in rehashing it.

That's good, because we're not going to.  I think we're done here.
Mkay.

I need to go do homework, so any replies after this will have to wait until, like, tomorrow afternoon.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."