In Defence of Power

[Cramulus]

I don't want to see them change or grow out of their idiocy.

I HATE stories of redemption.

redemption's not necessary,

but without change, it's not a story, it's a description

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't want to see them change or grow out of their idiocy.

I HATE stories of redemption.

redemption's not necessary,

but without change, it's not a story, it's a description

Cram makes a very good point.

[East Coast Hustle]

Balls. It's completely possible to tell a story based around how someone's inability to change keeps fucking their life harder and harder.

In other words, change must be present for there to be a story, but the change doesn't have to come from the characters.

[Placid Dingo]

Thanks so much for feedback. I appreciate.

I'm not writing a romance or a redemption story; I really just wanted to look at the structures of power on a mundane/everyday level and thought that this was the way to do it. Nobody is redeemed; Adrian becomes a bit less of a prat I think and Edwin becomes a complete asshole. I wasn't planning any real romance either.

Nigel, you are right about the Adrian character. I don't want either to be overly likable but need to make sure its worth reading. I'm not sure how to deal with the fact that the opening sequence very much is alienating to female readers, given the intended plot. I also like the idea of that sequence with Adrian failing.

LMNO, I'm thinking based off what I'm being told from every angle I do need a female character. I just don't want to stuff someone in who has no functional role in the plot (otherwise we get a female whose job is to stand around and be female because the diagraphic demanded it (See also the Sherlock Holmes film, and every mainstream non-romance ever). So I'll have to play around with the plot a bit.

Cram thanks for the feedback, that's useful. You're right about the dehumanising terminology. I'll clear up the sequence in the bar. ATM we're going to do a 'In a years time' jump, but I'm not sure if that's the best option. We'll see.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Does your story have a point? A moral? Or is it just a story?

[Placid Dingo]

There's a point. It's meant to try to illustrate a certain brand of rationalization about power structures.

Edwin starts powerless (not confident, attractive, charismatic etc)

He develops his power by developing these attributes and acts off the belief that power has an obligation to the powerless; the gym he runs sponsors ten other guys intimately with weight loss, people skills etc.

Its a clusterfuck; he gives up and ultimately takes a zero-sum attitude, literally locking away his clients and adrian in the final sequence.

So it's meant to try to look into the mentality of power structures but by examining how they might wOrk on a micro scale, rather than a world power scale.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hm. I will reserve judgement  until I have read the whole thing. One question though; are any of your characters intended to be sympathetic?

[LMNO]

It is sort of shaping up to look like a Neil LaBute play.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It is sort of shaping up to look like a Neil LaBute play.

Ahahaha. Ahahahahahahaha!

Yes. Please, burn him.

[Placid Dingo]

I want the characters to be sympathetic enough that you don't just say 'fuck this' and stop reading. But they're not meant to be wonderful people.

Lmno, I'm not sure how to take that. Even my wiki Fu failed me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I want the characters to be sympathetic enough that you don't just say 'fuck this' and stop reading. But they're not meant to be wonderful people.

Lmno, I'm not sure how to take that. Even my wiki Fu failed me.

"Wicker Man".

And other films in which none of the characters have the slightest redeeming attributes.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm not writing a romance or a redemption story;

Trust your spiritual adviser...I used to edit romance novels.  And that's a romance novel, with the genders reversed.  There's about 6 basic styles of romance novel, and that's #3.

[Placid Dingo]

I want the characters to be sympathetic enough that you don't just say 'fuck this' and stop reading. But they're not meant to be wonderful people.

Lmno, I'm not sure how to take that. Even my wiki Fu failed me.

"Wicker Man".

And other films in which none of the characters have the slightest redeeming attributes.

I will check it out, but what I'm wondering is, 'does it work'.

[Placid Dingo]

I'm not writing a romance or a redemption story;

Trust your spiritual adviser...I used to edit romance novels.  And that's a romance novel, with the genders reversed.  There's about 6 basic styles of romance novel, and that's #3.

Could you please just humor me for a tick and explain what you mean? Nobody falls in love with anybody. I'm just really not sure what kind of plot you're referring to or what about it screams romance.

That said, I don't have any strong feeling about what genre someone else thinks in working in, I'm just looking to understand what you're saying.

[Freeky]

I want the characters to be sympathetic enough that you don't just say 'fuck this' and stop reading. But they're not meant to be wonderful people.

Lmno, I'm not sure how to take that. Even my wiki Fu failed me.

"Wicker Man".

And other films in which none of the characters have the slightest redeeming attributes.

Is that the one where Nicholas Cage shouts "Not the bees, not the bees!" ?