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I'm pretty burned out on the whole elitist "us" (Really Real People) vs. "them" (stupid, cabbages, sheep, greyface, monkeys) thing that's gotten really popular lately

I agree with this, although I also think we've got a little way to evolve yet before this dynamic tribalism isn't an inevitability.  Isn't it the intended target the behaviour patterns rather than the people who tend to exhibit them?

1. I'm not sure we'll ever really get there, but when we become aware of it, it's possible to at least back up off a bit.
2. Yes, IMO it is. And that ties into awareness, as well.

3. We all exhibit all of the above behaviors to varying degrees at times. Like whatever the hell that book is that I'm thinking of says, "Enlightenment is only good once." It's a continuing process.

... Which makes me wonder how many forum accounts on PD have "fnord" as their password.

Finding out could be a worthwhile experiment.

000


Why mustachios for cups, Nigel? I'm interested in the thinking behind that.

Well, swords won't work because you can't stab people with moustaches.

Rods won't work because, clearly, dildoes.

Coins don't make any sense as moustaches.

The symbolism of cups is that they can contain things, and moustaches, also, can contain things.

Such as a fish.

Taking money from by people by getting them to believe things that may or may not be true is the root of all advertising, isn't it? One might say the advertising industry is the pinnacle of this trade.

I tend to look on the advertising industry with disgust, but only because the Machine that it has become doesn't care what gets caught in its gears. And that's really the main point:

Do you care at all if your actions lead to fucking people in the ass for petty profits? Or large profits? Will you convince people to consume poison so you can afford a third Bently? Or are you using the same techniques to sell certified good?

Almost everyone who runs a business has to advertise one way or another, and sometimes you have to bullshit people into buying your product even if it IS good, even if it does help them and you believe in it wholly.

It's all about intent.

Or what about photoshopping porn? Or beauty magazines?
Can you imagine someone doing that and cackling with laughter over the stupids who are gonna fap to some figment? Or is that person trying to make ends meet?

I pretty much agree with all of this. Even (especially) the questions. And I appreciate the dialogue.

I advertise the shit out of my beads. A boss I had some time back told me "There are three fundamental elements in advertising. One: Show people your product. Two: Show why it's appealing/useful. Three: Tell them where they can get it. Anything more than that is wasted effort".

I completely agree with that guy. In a lot of cases, advertising is full of lies and shysterism and psychological manipulation... and in a lot of cases it isn't. Corporate advertising as an industry, I would say, is probably evil or borderline evil because of the pervasive psychological manipulation that permeates our entire culture. "You can't be happy without white teeth!"

On the other hand, Suu makes antique-style clothing for those festival thingies. Her advertising would be more like "Hey, if you are planning to go to that festival, I have this thing that will be fun to wear!"

Photoshopping porn makes prettier images (depending on your tastes). There are larger ethical ramifications to the entire porn industry that could be discussed at length, including the issue of making women look unnaturally "perfect" etc etc blah blah blah, but the porn photoshopper is pretty definitely not thinking about how they're making a living through deception... nor are they, in fact, being deceptive. The end buyer is paying for images. The photoshopper is doing a job in the assembly line of producing those images.

BAD ASS TESTICLE


if you type:
fnord

it should link you to:
that fucking fish

That would be hilarious!

Yeah, I grok what you're saying.. I just personally don't have a problem with it. Hell, if I thought I could make enough money to get by though tarot and cold readings I'd do it. Hell of a lot easier than sitting in a cubicle for 8 fucking hours a day while the Pinks try to rob us of every last grain of slack. So I'm gonna read the book linked and see if it tells me anything new.

I didn't have a problem with his How to pick up Girls ideas either, though... so maybe I'm not the best barometer.

You're actually not any kind of a barometer at all for how other people feel about things. Doesn't bother you - fine. Someone else thinks it's bullshit, says so.

Also, you've defended things like magick and tarot in the past, have you not? I assume from this that you don't think it's entirely bullshit, which puts you in a different ethical category from someone who doesn't only think it's bullshit, but KNOWS it's bullshit, and misleads people for money consciously.

I'm pretty burned out on the whole elitist "us" (Really Real People) vs. "them" (stupid, cabbages, sheep, greyface, monkeys) thing that's gotten really popular lately, and I don't agree with the principle of dehumanizing people to make it feel OK to take advantage of their weaknesses and frailties. Lys, in what I see as backpedaling, argues that he wasn't doing that. I can quote phrases that definitely read that way, which he says were tongue in cheek. I say that I'm not very credulous of that right now but over time that may change. That's all.

Jerusalem.

I thought I'd share these with you guys as I've been practicing a lot of cold reading these days and have been thinking about incorporating it more into my act and turning it into a bit of "business" since so many people will easily believe this crap AND will HAPPILY pay for such services.

Just as an example. The thread is riddled with them, as are other threads. And then there was a lot of backpedaling.

It was mostly the "hey guys, I'm so awesome, you should do this too" aspect that I was objecting to. It also brought up shades of his "how to pick up chicks" phase.

Personally, I think discussing and even arguing over differences in ethical views is as valid a use of the Internet as posting Youtube links.

You,?! in favor of arguing on the Net? Come on Nigel, I'm shocked!! That's as crazy as claiming I'm for arguing on the Net...   

I guess I can see the possible ethical issues with bilking people out of money... but I don't see the ethical issues around telling others how to do it too... In fact, if Lys knew how to seperate a Pink from their Green and kept it a secret from the rest of us, I'd have a ethical problem with that... Share and Share alike! 

In all honesty, FWIW, I think I'd rather have the bleating hoards fed cold readings from Lys than many/most of the 'psychics' I know around Columbus. At least he hasn't fooled himself about what he's doing.

But the part you're missing is that if he wasn't proselytizing for it, I'd have nothing to argue against, so it would all be a moot point.

Post it on the net and there's a basis for discussion, right? And it would be naive of all of us to think that everyone's going to agree with any given thing anyone posts. Let's hearken back to when Lys really, really wanted to help people by telling them how he picks up chicks and gets laid. It got old for some people and they started calling him on it, but if he'd simply gone about his business of picking up chicks and getting laid without trying to proselytize or brag or whatever he was doing, I doubt anyone would have ever had anything to say about it.

It was mostly the "hey guys, I'm so awesome, you should do this too" aspect, as a companion to the appearance of contempt, that I was objecting to. It also brought up shades of his "how to pick up chicks" phase.

Personally, I think discussing and even arguing over differences in ethical views is as valid a use of the Internet as posting Youtube links.

He's cute.

Naming him Peter could become confusing. I suggest "Dave".

actually i picture nigel and either as

A pink ice cream truck??

Also, Transformers porn. 

If, however, she just wants to take a single phrase, interpret it as literally as possible, sink her teeth in it, keep repeating herself ignoring everything else and wanking about it until the other party simply gets bored and gives up (which I think happened now, yeah?).

As I've mentioned several times, it's not based on a single phrase. It's based on a number of things he's said in posts, a general impression I'm getting about having a sense of superiority over those he's "entertaining".

Yes, take my apology literally; I apologized for freaking out, but I am not apologizing for "the behavior that led up to it" because that "behavior" is also called "my personality"; the same personality I've had since I signed up here, and I am not apologetic for being me, nor am I going to recreate myself at your whim.

And also, you know what, I'm getting tired of you following me around the board sniping whenever I'm not  posting treacle and sunflowers. I have made up my mind to be extra nice to you because you seem like you're having some kind of stress breakout or something, but I do have to say, you've been pretty unreasonably bitchy lately, and not just toward me.

O.K.

          listen. If STARSCREAM has chosen to change sides (again), FINE

OTHERWISE

          No more trade secrets!!

Why do I have to be Starscream? What did I ever do to you?

[just as well-adjusted as us]

Yes, my kids, too...But now they'll think critically, and be just as well-adjusted as us.