Maybe stupid question

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thing is, I as a primate enjoy the hell out of music.  I understand that there is structure and math to it, but that does not add to my enjoyment of music, and when people discuss it, I kind of stand there looking lost, and wondering what happened to the conversation about the cultural roots of what drives the ideas in music today.

Now, if I was looking at some of Nigel's beads, I'd appreciate them...And I'd appreciate seeing the way they're made, because I DO understand a few things about kilns and calcining and shit.  I wouldn't expect anyone who didn't have a background in that to appreciate or understand the conversation.

One time, a major, lieutenant, and I were in the tactical operations center on a field problem, and we started talking physics.  This major was listening to the conversation, and was able to follow what we were saying.  Then the lieutenant and I started to discuss the underlying math, and the major was suddenly at sea, and said something like "I am officially geeked out", and left the tent.

The lieutenant and I sort of stood there, embarassed, and then got back to work.  The reason we were embarrassed was because we'd utterly left the major out of the conversation without thinking.

Now, let's try that again:

One time, a field grade officer, an O1, and I were in the TOC on an exercise,  and we started talking physics.  This major was listening to the conversation, and was able to follow what we were saying.  Then the shavetail and I started to discuss the underlying math, and the O4 was suddenly LLAMFed, and said something like "I am officially geeked out", and un-assed the AO.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across, here.

[navkat]

You are. We should be free to talk on both levels but also be prepared to translate humbly without "talking down" to those in the room who aren't schooled in the same areas.

Conversely, we should all feel comfortable asking questions and be willing to learn something without feeling inadequate because none of us are and we're all expert on something we'll end up teaching/sharing with someone else in the future.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

No i gotcha. Its all good. No worries and i apologize for doing that. I thought i was making the post understandable enough for nonmusicians to follow what i was saying. Kinda hard to do that i guess though.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

No i gotcha. Its all good. No worries and i apologize for doing that. I thought i was making the post understandable enough for nonmusicians to follow what i was saying. Kinda hard to do that i guess though.

Yeah, I was babbling about work to Hat the other day, and I stopped when I saw him just sort of staring at me.  I thought I'd explained it adequately, but he had no idea what I was talking about.  I assumed that everyone knows at least the very basics of mechanical drive systems.

Listen to two IT geeks talk shop sometime.  They're the worst about this sort of thing.

[Don Coyote]

Thing is, I as a primate enjoy the hell out of music.  I understand that there is structure and math to it, but that does not add to my enjoyment of music, and when people discuss it, I kind of stand there looking lost, and wondering what happened to the conversation about the cultural roots of what drives the ideas in music today.

Now, if I was looking at some of Nigel's beads, I'd appreciate them...And I'd appreciate seeing the way they're made, because I DO understand a few things about kilns and calcining and shit.  I wouldn't expect anyone who didn't have a background in that to appreciate or understand the conversation.

One time, a major, lieutenant, and I were in the tactical operations center on a field problem, and we started talking physics.  This major was listening to the conversation, and was able to follow what we were saying.  Then the lieutenant and I started to discuss the underlying math, and the major was suddenly at sea, and said something like "I am officially geeked out", and left the tent.

The lieutenant and I sort of stood there, embarassed, and then got back to work.  The reason we were embarrassed was because we'd utterly left the major out of the conversation without thinking.

Now, let's try that again:

One time, a field grade officer, an O1, and I were in the TOC on an exercise,  and we started talking physics.  This major was listening to the conversation, and was able to follow what we were saying.  Then the shavetail and I started to discuss the underlying math, and the O4 was suddenly LLAMFed, and said something like "I am officially geeked out", and un-assed the AO.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across, here.

I was translating your civilian explanation into Army

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thing is, I as a primate enjoy the hell out of music.  I understand that there is structure and math to it, but that does not add to my enjoyment of music, and when people discuss it, I kind of stand there looking lost, and wondering what happened to the conversation about the cultural roots of what drives the ideas in music today.

Now, if I was looking at some of Nigel's beads, I'd appreciate them...And I'd appreciate seeing the way they're made, because I DO understand a few things about kilns and calcining and shit.  I wouldn't expect anyone who didn't have a background in that to appreciate or understand the conversation.

One time, a major, lieutenant, and I were in the tactical operations center on a field problem, and we started talking physics.  This major was listening to the conversation, and was able to follow what we were saying.  Then the lieutenant and I started to discuss the underlying math, and the major was suddenly at sea, and said something like "I am officially geeked out", and left the tent.

The lieutenant and I sort of stood there, embarassed, and then got back to work.  The reason we were embarrassed was because we'd utterly left the major out of the conversation without thinking.

Now, let's try that again:

One time, a field grade officer, an O1, and I were in the TOC on an exercise,  and we started talking physics.  This major was listening to the conversation, and was able to follow what we were saying.  Then the shavetail and I started to discuss the underlying math, and the O4 was suddenly LLAMFed, and said something like "I am officially geeked out", and un-assed the AO.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across, here.

I was translating your civilian explanation into Army

You can take the man out of the army, but you can't take the army coffee out of the man.

[Cain]

Jargon is pretty much designed to create cliques, make specialists and exclude people.  Sometimes it is necessary, to convey the greatest or most accurate amount of information in the best way possible...but rarely is it needed outside of that.

I always keep George Orwell's advice about writing in mind: simplify to the most basic level you can while still making an intelligible point or without distorting what you are trying to describe.  This forces you to break down what you are trying to do as well, and helps you consider it in a more critical manner, which can be helpful in some situations.

[navkat]

Jargon is pretty much designed to create cliques, make specialists and exclude people.  Sometimes it is necessary, to convey the greatest or most accurate amount of information in the best way possible...but rarely is it needed outside of that.

I always keep George Orwell's advice about writing in mind: simplify to the most basic level you can while still making an intelligible point or without distorting what you are trying to describe.  This forces you to break down what you are trying to do as well, and helps you consider it in a more critical manner, which can be helpful in some situations.

We should all aspire to this. We are, however, show-offs and creatures of (often bad) habit.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Jargon is pretty much designed to create cliques, make specialists and exclude people.  Sometimes it is necessary, to convey the greatest or most accurate amount of information in the best way possible...but rarely is it needed outside of that.

I always keep George Orwell's advice about writing in mind: simplify to the most basic level you can while still making an intelligible point or without distorting what you are trying to describe.  This forces you to break down what you are trying to do as well, and helps you consider it in a more critical manner, which can be helpful in some situations.

Good point. Actually, it might be an interesting exercise. Sometimes you can become familiar enough with an idea that you don't really know how to explain it. You take the jargon word for granted.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Jargon is pretty much designed to create cliques, make specialists and exclude people.  Sometimes it is necessary, to convey the greatest or most accurate amount of information in the best way possible...but rarely is it needed outside of that.

I always keep George Orwell's advice about writing in mind: simplify to the most basic level you can while still making an intelligible point or without distorting what you are trying to describe.  This forces you to break down what you are trying to do as well, and helps you consider it in a more critical manner, which can be helpful in some situations.

We should all aspire to this. We are, however, show-offs and creatures of (often bad) habit.

Probably bad habit on my part. I had no intent to show off, just to show how those different genres have similarities.

[Cain]

John Ralston Saul, in the book Voltaire's Bastards (a book every Discordian should read, incidentally) goes quite in depth into how jargon essentially empowers technocratic elements within modern society, who should not be anymore empowered as their technical skill is often facile (if not utterly incorrect) and their fundamental approach to rule is anti-democratic.

Orwell makes a somewhat similar point, actually.

[Cain]

Of course, this doesn't necessarily apply so much to music as it does to the social sciences, but it's the same basic idea at work.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Of course, this doesn't necessarily apply so much to music as it does to the social sciences, but it's the same basic idea at work.

I was just thinking to myself a minute ago, how would I go about describing the difference between say a major and a minor chord. The only way I would be able to is to say that the minor chord sounds sad, which is not always the case. It's how the chords are strung together. The only way I'd be able to is actually play A major and then A minor for the person.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Of course, this doesn't necessarily apply so much to music as it does to the social sciences, but it's the same basic idea at work.

I was just thinking to myself a minute ago, how would I go about describing the difference between say a major and a minor chord. The only way I would be able to is to say that the minor chord sounds sad, which is not always the case. It's how the chords are strung together. The only way I'd be able to is actually play A major and then A minor for the person.

I had a teacher once who used the example of music from horror films.  Most are in minor chords and have the jarring against the spine sound whereas majors are symphonies...    Very loose, but it got the point across.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Of course, this doesn't necessarily apply so much to music as it does to the social sciences, but it's the same basic idea at work.

I was just thinking to myself a minute ago, how would I go about describing the difference between say a major and a minor chord. The only way I would be able to is to say that the minor chord sounds sad, which is not always the case. It's how the chords are strung together. The only way I'd be able to is actually play A major and then A minor for the person.

I had a teacher once who used the example of music from horror films.  Most are in minor chords and have the jarring against the spine sound whereas majors are symphonies...    Very loose, but it got the point across.

Yeah- if you have a lot of major chords together, it's like happy sounding, mixing major and minor gives you a bit of a sadder tone (House of the Rising Sun for example) and then all minor chords gives you either an eerie, evil, or despondent sort of sound.