CRAMULUS

[AFK]

And then there is this, which I think someone already alluded to.



I'm thinking, honestly, that Discordia falls into the blue, Self Actualization run of Maslow's ladder.

And given the socio-economics in America, it can't be too much of a surprise that it seems to attract more middle-class Whites.  I would say that the message of Discordianism would need to be re-tooled in a way that it more easily fits lower in the hierarchy of needs, or maybe more to the point, more obviously fits lower in the hierarchy.  

[navkat]

I don't see that there's an obligation.

I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams.  I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.

Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves.  If they want to come, they're welcome.  Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.

I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok.  We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track.  I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.

We are what we are.

THIS.

Navkat:  Maybe we aren't likeable period.

I think we're likeable.

I also think we make much ado about truths that most people keep to themselves because they don't feel the need to advertise and commune about the fact that it's all a crock of absurdly funny shit.

[Luna]

Relative newcomer's thought...  I think I can count on one hand the number of people around here who actually know what color my skin is.  Never got the feeling anybody gave much of a shit.

[Disco Pickle]

I wonder how much the religious aspect affects it?  Taking Eris as your goddess is a bit tongue in cheek (alright, maybe a LOT) but from what I've seen, there don't seem to be a lot of religious types in discordia.  

In my life, I've met probably 3 professed atheists that didn't share my melanin levels.  I'm not sure why that is, but I'm kicking around a few possible reasons that I haven't fully articulated in my head yet.  I'd be interested to know what the correlation is for whites vs other enthnicities, to atheism, and how closely that matches the demographics found in discordia.  Not even sure where one would begin to gather that sort of data though.

[Faust]

I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of).  It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens.  Seen it myself.)

It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.

Exactly, the time to think nowadays is a luxury that's not easily available.

See this is the mindset I don't get... I don't really think economic factors are as important as some people do... I think some people just have natural inclinations to think certain ways.

I mean I've been pretty poor my entire life, only really in the last three or four years have I had enough money that I'm not constantly worrying about covering rent, food, etc.  It's one of the primary reasons my wife and I don't have kids.  Even now, I don't really make that much money... you'd be surprised how little porn photoshoppers make.  Or maybe you wouldn't.  But the point is, I've had a certain philosophical nature my entire life.  Does being comfortable give me more time to think about philosophical questions?  Sure, but that doesn't mean I didn't have them before.

So I guess that's the aspect I don't understand.

I've come from abject poverty, put myself through college and have always had an interest in philosophy and science. But we're exceptions not the rule. I know philosophy certainly did not go down well with young people from hard backgrounds, I find nearly all the older disenfranchised very well versed in philosophy in fact talking to them was one of the only cool parts of my job in security.
No one has cooler ideas then an alcoholic homeless seventy year old.

[pH]

Are we more worried about getting minorities to come to PD though, or with why they wouldnt be attracted to PD, or a bit of both?

[Faust]

Relative newcomer's thought...  I think I can count on one hand the number of people around here who actually know what color my skin is.  Never got the feeling anybody gave much of a shit.

I'm not even entirely sure of your sex. That's the way most of the people I converse with on the internet go. I kind of like it. The anon appeal.

[hooplala]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

[Captain Utopia]

I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of).  It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens.  Seen it myself.)

It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.

Exactly, the time to think nowadays is a luxury that's not easily available.

See this is the mindset I don't get... I don't really think economic factors are as important as some people do... I think some people just have natural inclinations to think certain ways.

I mean I've been pretty poor my entire life, only really in the last three or four years have I had enough money that I'm not constantly worrying about covering rent, food, etc.  It's one of the primary reasons my wife and I don't have kids.  Even now, I don't really make that much money... you'd be surprised how little porn photoshoppers make.  Or maybe you wouldn't.  But the point is, I've had a certain philosophical nature my entire life.  Does being comfortable give me more time to think about philosophical questions?  Sure, but that doesn't mean I didn't have them before.

So I guess that's the aspect I don't understand.

Yeah, I think the race thing is a bit of a white herring.

The bigger question seems to be: "Why the fuck would anyone want to be a Discordian anyway?" - related discussion here and here.

[hooplala]

white herring

[Richter]

Been here a few years, and I think the same as Luna.  I actually take for granted that nobody seems to care.

I don't see that there's an obligation.

I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams.  I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.

Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves.  If they want to come, they're welcome.  Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.

I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok.  We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track.  I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.

We are what we are.

THIS.

Navkat:  Maybe we aren't likeable period.

I think we're likeable.

I also think we make much ado about truths that most people keep to themselves because they don't feel the need to advertise and commune about the fact that it's all a crock of absurdly funny shit.

At the same time we are not intended for mass production or mass consumption.

[Faust]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.

[hooplala]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.

Point.

[hooplala]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.

Point.

[pH]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.

Point.

So do we try to give better access to information then, or a better understanding of the fringe?