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Motivational Survey

Started by Cramulus, February 21, 2011, 03:43:35 PM

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Which of these best captures your attitude towards "hacking The Machine"?

Make things better locally, it's futile to aim higher
6 (21.4%)
Participate in the forces of large scale change
9 (32.1%)
Whatever, as long as I'm having a good time
7 (25%)
Seriously, I just don't give a shit
1 (3.6%)
I'm more interested in making things worse
5 (17.9%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Cramulus


AFK

I voted for the first one, though it's phrased a little too "bottle half empty" for my taste.  The "bottle half full" perspective would be that it is probably more effective and possible to instill large scale change by affecting local scale change.  That is, of course, assuming there are other localized efforts going on.  I think the cumulative effect of many local operations could have a larger net impact then taking a swing at the macro-Machine. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Captain Utopia


The cumulative effect of many local operations is a swing at the macro-Machine.

I don't see any way around it.

AFK

It ends up being a swing at the macro-Machine.  But if the focus, aim, and intent are based upon the macro-Machine, your actions are likely to be compromised and will most likely be inefficient.  Local efforts only work when they are immersed and informed by the local culture and environment.  If you are shaping your local efforts based on aims for the macro-Machine, you are likely to miss intricate and vital details that would maximize the impact of your local actions. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

The Good Reverend Roger

Put me down for "assisting the Lemmings", Marlin Perkins-style.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Captain Utopia

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 21, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
It ends up being a swing at the macro-Machine.  But if the focus, aim, and intent are based upon the macro-Machine, your actions are likely to be compromised and will most likely be inefficient.  Local efforts only work when they are immersed and informed by the local culture and environment.  If you are shaping your local efforts based on aims for the macro-Machine, you are likely to miss intricate and vital details that would maximize the impact of your local actions. 

:cn:

I don't see why you can't do both.  Let me offer up an example.  There's little point me going outside and putting up posters in an effort to spread a message of "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!" today - it feels like a drop in the ocean.

However, if it were a coordinated action/message over a dozen cities in North America and Europe, etc.. I could write a local events-magazine (the path from their offices to the nearest subway station would also feature the posters), pointing out that they're also mysteriously showing up in Amsterdam, New York and Australia.  Now these are still tiny drops, but they start to look bigger and have much more potential to capture attention to the message.


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 21, 2011, 04:37:02 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 21, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
It ends up being a swing at the macro-Machine.  But if the focus, aim, and intent are based upon the macro-Machine, your actions are likely to be compromised and will most likely be inefficient.  Local efforts only work when they are immersed and informed by the local culture and environment.  If you are shaping your local efforts based on aims for the macro-Machine, you are likely to miss intricate and vital details that would maximize the impact of your local actions. 

:cn:

I don't see why you can't do both.  Let me offer up an example.  There's little point me going outside and putting up posters in an effort to spread a message of "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!" today - it feels like a drop in the ocean.

However, if it were a coordinated action/message over a dozen cities in North America and Europe, etc.. I could write a local events-magazine (the path from their offices to the nearest subway station would also feature the posters), pointing out that they're also mysteriously showing up in Amsterdam, New York and Australia.  Now these are still tiny drops, but they start to look bigger and have much more potential to capture attention to the message.



AH AM THINKING FOR MYSELF, JUST LIKE RUSH SAID!
\
:mullet:

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

East Coast Hustle

I'm not only more interested in making things worse, I'm more ACTIVE in it.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Juana

I hate monkeys but I also want to help monkeys stand up. If only for the company.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Hover Cat on February 21, 2011, 07:30:47 PM
I hate monkeys but I also want to help monkeys stand up. If only for the company.

Also, because monkeys hitting their heads on things are funny.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

East Coast Hustle

While some might argue that it would be nice if we changed the world for the better (and I've said before that I think it's important for people to try in spite of the futility of it; I just never explained why I think it's important), I've come to the conclusion that not only is The Word a zero-sum game, it's a decreasing-sum game. this means that if I want a piece of the pie, it's not good enough to go take someone else's piece of the pie. I have to go take three other peoples' pieces of pie for it to equal out to me having gotten one piece. This rising tide is not lifting all ships because the ships are fastened to the seafloor with a finite length of strong chain. The more people that blissfully sit around on the deck of their own personal ship distracted by shit like "hope" and "change" (hey, sound familiar?), the easier it is for me to go around and steal the lifeboats. And while you drown, I'll be busy building a metaphorical raft with your metaphorical lifeboats and reinventing myself as a metaphorical Dennis Hopper in Waterworld, all unrepentantly self-centered (because let's face it, most of what we call "evil" or "bad" is just that - self-centered) and having a goddamn good time with it.

Enjoy your swim.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

AFK

Quote from: Captain Utopia on February 21, 2011, 04:37:02 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 21, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
It ends up being a swing at the macro-Machine.  But if the focus, aim, and intent are based upon the macro-Machine, your actions are likely to be compromised and will most likely be inefficient.  Local efforts only work when they are immersed and informed by the local culture and environment.  If you are shaping your local efforts based on aims for the macro-Machine, you are likely to miss intricate and vital details that would maximize the impact of your local actions. 

:cn:

I don't see why you can't do both.  Let me offer up an example.  There's little point me going outside and putting up posters in an effort to spread a message of "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!" today - it feels like a drop in the ocean.

However, if it were a coordinated action/message over a dozen cities in North America and Europe, etc.. I could write a local events-magazine (the path from their offices to the nearest subway station would also feature the posters), pointing out that they're also mysteriously showing up in Amsterdam, New York and Australia.  Now these are still tiny drops, but they start to look bigger and have much more potential to capture attention to the message.

It's a massive waste of capacity.  Messages have to be culturally relevant.  And I'm not just talking about cultures between different countries.  There are different cultures within countries.  Hell, you can have vastly different cultures within states.  You can't deliver the same message to 12 different locations without adapting the message to those 12 different locations.  That would entail a massive amount of research and effort.  And if you don't do that, your message will not resonate and it will fail.

That is why I say, it is more effective for local efforts to focus on local cultures and environments.  There may perhaps be some minor cumulative effects, but that should not be the goal or the driver.  Because, again, it is a waste of time and energy that could be focused on your locality. 

You cannot ever hope to change the Machine.  You can't really hope to change it's course.  The best you can hope for is to make some tiny changes to your cog in the machine and that it makes that portion of the Machine work a little differently.  Maybe, just maybe, enough of those cogs line up and work to change the trajectory of The Machine by a fraction of a millimeter.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Cramulus

I'm not sure that individuals can change the machine.

I do think that groups of people can change the machine, though it often doesn't change in the way they hoped.

Placid Dingo

I'm using a phone so I can't see the options. However right now my aim is to try to see how efficiently we can produce systems in schools that let kids maximize their own autonomy, and really follow their passions, through language education.

So I'll get back to you on this one in about two years.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

Phox

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on February 21, 2011, 08:17:58 PM
While some might argue that it would be nice if we changed the world for the better (and I've said before that I think it's important for people to try in spite of the futility of it; I just never explained why I think it's important), I've come to the conclusion that not only is The Word a zero-sum game, it's a decreasing-sum game. this means that if I want a piece of the pie, it's not good enough to go take someone else's piece of the pie. I have to go take three other peoples' pieces of pie for it to equal out to me having gotten one piece. This rising tide is not lifting all ships because the ships are fastened to the seafloor with a finite length of strong chain. The more people that blissfully sit around on the deck of their own personal ship distracted by shit like "hope" and "change" (hey, sound familiar?), the easier it is for me to go around and steal the lifeboats. And while you drown, I'll be busy building a metaphorical raft with your metaphorical lifeboats and reinventing myself as a metaphorical Dennis Hopper in Waterworld, all unrepentantly self-centered (because let's face it, most of what we call "evil" or "bad" is just that - self-centered) and having a goddamn good time with it.

Enjoy your swim.

Umm. Who knew I had so much in common with ECH? Goddamn my Hobbesian tendencies.