A Chaos Marxism Primer

[LMNO]

First off, if someone is being creative (remember, building shelves or making a good meal, or even repairing your driveway can be creative), then they most likely already are thinking for themselves.

[an aside]Call it semantics, but for me the words 'create' and 'make' are two different thing, even if they discribe the same actions.  To me, 'create' has a joyous spirit, while 'make' somehow lacks that.[/an aside]

So, as long as people are creating, and Thinking for Themselves, who cares if they're Discordian?  You'll have a better time interacting with them, and communication of ideas will be easier.  Think pragmatically rather than idealistically: So long as other people are behaving in a manner you like, who gives a fuck what their core belief engine is?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

For me, I don't care if I hop on other narratives... if I hijack existing memes... or if I hide entirely in the fabric of other movements. If I enjoy my experience, if I happen to encourage others to think for themselves... it doesn't matter if they 'see' the Apple that I smacked them with. It doesn't matter if they realize that they ARE Discordian (every man, woman and child). If they think a little more for themselves, if they can take themselves a little less seriously, if they can find a bit more creativity in their life... then it doesn't matter to me if they think that they're Discordian, Sub Genius, Makers, Crafters, SCAdians, Anonymous or any other random label...

Individuals are individuals, if you wake up one individual, aka yourself, that's awesome. If you happen to influences some other spag to wake themselves up, its even more awesome.... It doesn't matter as much, IMO, if they find out about Eris, the Principia Discordia, or this forum.

[Captain Utopia]

So, as long as people are creating, and Thinking for Themselves, who cares if they're Discordian?  You'll have a better time interacting with them, and communication of ideas will be easier.  Think pragmatically rather than idealistically: So long as other people are behaving in a manner you like, who gives a fuck what their core belief engine is?

That's the end-game/winning scenario, definitely.

What is driving my car at the moment is the thought that the link between "Creating" and "TFY:S" could be much stronger, and I don't see how to make it stronger without putting conscious effort into a Message.

Unless you're saying that Creating is the Message?  In which case - in recent history we moved from being a society of creators to a society of consumers - was there more "TFY:S" around back then?  Is there more "TFY:S" in developing nations who are less dominated by consumer culture?

[LMNO]

I disagree, and I'm glad I put that aside in my last post.

Most people tend to be Makers, rather than Creators.  A shift from Maker to Non-Maker (or, consumer) is far less tragic than from Creator to Maker.


America's history as a nation of Industry has been one of Makers.  I would hazard a guess that the amount of Creators has always been fairly small.

[Luna]

America's history as a nation of Industry has been one of Makers.  I would hazard a guess that the amount of Creators has always been fairly small.

Modern industry promotes Makers.  Produce MORE shit, not lovingly crafted, better stuff.

Getting people thinking about, "wow, that's cool, I can do that, and make something of my own" is, IMHO, a good thing.  If you're creating something new, you are, pretty much by definition, stretching your mind into thinking for yourself.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Was gonna add this to my earlier comment, but multiple posts have already hit



ETA: Thats one very positive thing about Chaos Marxism... Delores is doing something. It is a creative work and while there may be inconsistencies or confusion in some opinions (including mine), its Discordia, inconsistency and confusion are part of the game. In fact, I think I would prefer to see Discordian philosophies with confusion and inconsistency, it makes it easier to take them less seriously and provides more opportunity for someone to 'Think For Themselves'. I didn't really consider this when I was offering my critique earlier... but I thought about it last evening.

The more philosophies we have that relate to Discordianism, be it Black Iron Prisons or Chaos Marxism, the better. For every competing philosophy, ideology or metaphor we provide another avenue for proto-discordians to Think For Themselves. They get to choose between Fnords, BiP's, GSP's, Chaos Marxism etc ad infinitum!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?

Why not?

Because there's already enough screaming going on.  Average Joe, he has a worldview he can live with (Obama is a socialist/Bush is Hitler).  He's accepted this worldview because he likes it, and it lets him sleep at night.

99% of the people in the world are perfectly happy with this sort of nonsense.  Do you really think they'll thank you for tearing off the vinyl and showing them the rather ugly Truth of what's going on in their lives?

Certain groups of people - myself included - want to know what's going on.  Most people think they do, but they really don't (This is why people believe outlandish conspiracy theories.  At some level, they know it's make-believe, therefore harmless.)  Someone who doesn't want the Truth won't be enlightened by it, they'll either start screaming and never stop, or they'll kill you and go back to watching the TV.

I'm at a turning point in my life, beliefs-wise.  I used to want to wake people up...Until I learned what that entails.  Now I'm torn between a) wanting to leave them nice and sleepy & quiet, or b)  Wake them up as punishment, let them know they can't buy security with their freedom or indeed at any price, and then sit back and watch them go mad.

So, yeah, the question isn't as simple as it seems.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?

Why not?

Because there's already enough screaming going on.  Average Joe, he has a worldview he can live with (Obama is a socialist/Bush is Hitler).  He's accepted this worldview because he likes it, and it lets him sleep at night.

99% of the people in the world are perfectly happy with this sort of nonsense.  Do you really think they'll thank you for tearing off the vinyl and showing them the rather ugly Truth of what's going on in their lives?

Certain groups of people - myself included - want to know what's going on.  Most people think they do, but they really don't (This is why people believe outlandish conspiracy theories.  At some level, they know it's make-believe, therefore harmless.)  Someone who doesn't want the Truth won't be enlightened by it, they'll either start screaming and never stop, or they'll kill you and go back to watching the TV.

I'm at a turning point in my life, beliefs-wise.  I used to want to wake people up...Until I learned what that entails.  Now I'm torn between a) wanting to leave them nice and sleepy & quiet, or b)  Wake them up as punishment, let them know they can't buy security with their freedom or indeed at any price, and then sit back and watch them go mad.

So, yeah, the question isn't as simple as it seems.

Fine, fine motorcycle you got there Roger.

[East Coast Hustle]

Discordia isn't like crabs, caught as easily as sharing underwear.

I believe we could craft something that infectious.  Should we?

Why not?

Because there's already enough screaming going on.  Average Joe, he has a worldview he can live with (Obama is a socialist/Bush is Hitler).  He's accepted this worldview because he likes it, and it lets him sleep at night.

99% of the people in the world are perfectly happy with this sort of nonsense.  Do you really think they'll thank you for tearing off the vinyl and showing them the rather ugly Truth of what's going on in their lives?

Certain groups of people - myself included - want to know what's going on.  Most people think they do, but they really don't (This is why people believe outlandish conspiracy theories.  At some level, they know it's make-believe, therefore harmless.)  Someone who doesn't want the Truth won't be enlightened by it, they'll either start screaming and never stop, or they'll kill you and go back to watching the TV.

I'm at a turning point in my life, beliefs-wise.  I used to want to wake people up...Until I learned what that entails.  Now I'm torn between a) wanting to leave them nice and sleepy & quiet, or b)  Wake them up as punishment, let them know they can't buy security with their freedom or indeed at any price, and then sit back and watch them go mad.

So, yeah, the question isn't as simple as it seems.

STOP PUSHING YOUR NEGATIVE TRIP ON ME, BROSEPH! CAN'T YOU SEE I'M TRYING TO CHANGE THE WORLD?
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