Police with snipers on tanks in bumfuck Missouri town. Journalist for wash po and huff po arrested for working in a McDonald's.
And that's just been this evening.
Ferguson PD has so far
1 murdered unamarmed teen
2 assaulted peaceful protesters
3 arrested journos
4 teargassed a st senator
5 jailed an alderman
Best site recap of the few day shitshow I've found: http://boingboing.net/2014/08/13/ferguson-protesters-hold-peac.html (http://boingboing.net/2014/08/13/ferguson-protesters-hold-peac.html)
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu9Hg6MCAAAyfdp.jpg:large)
Terrifying.
Unarmed black teen was shot to death. No officers held accountable. No witnesses interviewed. Only social media coverage really save. VICE, huff po, and wash po though that's changed following journalists arrested.
Quote"Ferguson chief tells me Lowery and Reilly' (journalists) arresters were 'probably somebody who didn't know better," tweeted Pearce.
Fuck. This quote pretty much says it. Cops sporting a full military kit are clueless to the laws they're enforcing. SWAT response to a peaceful protest, assuring crowd their right to assemble isn't being impeded by the tear gas and rubber bullets
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Your search and seizure dollars at work!
What's the point in Bumfuck nowhere being able to afford tanks and shit unless they get to use them occasionally? Seriously, I bet that's the reason half that shit got rolled out there.
Boy, I'm really glad we're winning that War of on Terror.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 14, 2014, 02:33:45 PM
Your search and seizure dollars at work!
What's the point in Bumfuck nowhere being able to afford tanks and shit unless they get to use them occasionally? Seriously, I bet that's the reason half that shit got rolled out there.
Oh, I think they're legitimately scared...and with good reason. From all the reports that I've been reading that suburb's had an *ahem*
rapidly changing demographic of late, and it's been putting a lot of strain on the...neighborly spirit...among some of the older residents. The reaction has been a constant poking of the growing black population there, followed by this. When you hear that constant ticking, it's reasonable to expect a boom.
I mean, none of this would be happening right now if all them black thugs had stayed in East St. Louis where they were nicely contained for so long.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Is Missouri really one of the poorer States? I had no idea. Not really a fan of St Louis personally but it never struck me as that bad.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Well, it does help that there are, in fact, special purchasing programs which allow US police departments to acquire military grade weaponry at really cut-price rates.
And well, it was either that or spend money on prevention programs which are boring and don't play well with the LawandOrder crowd.
Quote from: Da6s on August 14, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Is Missouri really one of the poorer States? I had no idea. Not really a fan of St Louis personally but it never struck me as that bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Well, it does help that there are, in fact, special purchasing programs which allow US police departments to acquire military grade weaponry at really cut-price rates.
And well, it was either that or spend money on prevention programs which are boring and don't play well with the LawandOrder crowd.
It's been pointed out by smarter people than I that if you give law enforcement military gear, they start acting like they're in the military. The streets then become a battlefield, and the people they're sworn to protect become the enemy.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 14, 2014, 03:05:52 PM
Quote from: Da6s on August 14, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Is Missouri really one of the poorer States? I had no idea. Not really a fan of St Louis personally but it never struck me as that bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income
Not that bad. Would've been shocked if it was worse than my hated homestate. It isn't.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 14, 2014, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Well, it does help that there are, in fact, special purchasing programs which allow US police departments to acquire military grade weaponry at really cut-price rates.
And well, it was either that or spend money on prevention programs which are boring and don't play well with the LawandOrder crowd.
It's been pointed out by smarter people than I that if you give law enforcement military gear, they start acting like they're in the military. The streets then become a battlefield, and the people they're sworn to protect become the enemy.
Psh. Just because many cops are ex-soldiers, using military gear and constantly referencing military lingo and military operational theories ("population-centric counterinsurgency") doesn't mean they're all going to suddenly act like Rambo for no reason.
Perish the thought.
"We're gonna Protect and Serve the fuck out of you."
(http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/files/2014/08/Whitney-Ferguson-riot-gear-Ferguson-NYT-600x400.jpg)
See how he's raising his arms? It's well known that animals attempt to inflate their size in order to intimidate and threaten other animals. And that, my friends, is a criminal act.
You're on fire today, Cain.
As are parts of Missouri.
And by "parts", I mean people.
Per HuffPo, police are withdrawing. Apparently arresting journalists is bad press. Also doesn't help that Missouri's MIA governor is visiting the town today.
QuoteReport: St. Louis County Police To Be Withdrawn From Duty After Ferguson Protests
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/ferguson-protest-police_n_5678441.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/ferguson-protest-police_n_5678441.html)
Vice did a really good episode (S2, E12) on the militarization of police & surveillance in Camden, NJ. Watch it if you have HBO access.
Here's their recap of it: https://news.vice.com/article/vice-on-hbo-debriefs-surveillance-city-the-forgotten-war (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/ferguson-protest-police_n_5678441.html)
So, Black kid gets shot by cops in Mississippi, police react decisively by turning their town into North Korea.
How much of a surprise is this? I mean, the country was FOUNDED by killing Blacks (and Native Americans, and anyone else who was handy), at it's not like the deep South has changed on an institutional level. Shit, just look at Florida.
21C...It's like 20C, only we use our tanks on ourselves instead of the regular kind of Nazi.
>everyone omitting the fact that the day after Mike Brown got killed, there were violent riots and looting in the streets
Fuck this narrative about peaceful protesters. They devolved into smashing in store fronts and stealing shit at random on day one. Hardly "peaceful" and hardly directed at the police force that committed injustice against them, if you ask me...
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Well, it does help that there are, in fact, special purchasing programs which allow US police departments to acquire military grade weaponry at really cut-price rates.
And well, it was either that or spend money on prevention programs which are boring and don't play well with the LawandOrder crowd.
Exactly. The police department from the town next to mine recently got an armored personnel carrier (an APC, for fuck's sake!)
for free from the military. The first thought of literally everyone I talked to was "why do they need an armored vehicle?"
To enforce the peace, of course! :horrormirth:
Quote from: Aucoq on August 15, 2014, 01:14:21 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
This is to do with the shooting of black teens by the police force, right?
Interesting, how quickly the police are able to deploy their paramilitary capability when they feel the need to. A shame they apparently cannot use such overwhelming force to peacefully effect the end-stage of criminal operations.
Some shitty little suburb in one of the poorer states in the union can just call up this kind of operation at the snap of a finger. That's...comforting.
Imagine if there were a network of protesters that could be called up with that level of efficiency.
Well, it does help that there are, in fact, special purchasing programs which allow US police departments to acquire military grade weaponry at really cut-price rates.
And well, it was either that or spend money on prevention programs which are boring and don't play well with the LawandOrder crowd.
Exactly. The police department from the town next to mine recently got an armored personnel carrier (an APC, for fuck's sake!) for free from the military. The first thought of literally everyone I talked to was "why do they need an armored vehicle?"
To enforce the peace, of course! :horrormirth:
A funny thing about po-dunk departments getting things like APCs and MRAPs for cheap is that oftentimes, they don't have the budget to actually maintain the damn things...
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 12:21:12 AM
>everyone omitting the fact that the day after Mike Brown got killed, there were violent riots and looting in the streets
Fuck this narrative about peaceful protesters. They devolved into smashing in store fronts and stealing shit at random on day one. Hardly "peaceful" and hardly directed at the police force that committed injustice against them, if you ask me...
Fuck your idiot face.
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 12:21:12 AM
>everyone omitting the fact that the day after Mike Brown got killed, there were violent riots and looting in the streets
Fuck this narrative about peaceful protesters. They devolved into smashing in store fronts and stealing shit at random on day one. Hardly "peaceful" and hardly directed at the police force that committed injustice against them, if you ask me...
It was also only a few people only on day one, and they were arrested.
Secondly, I'm assuming that your expert opinion is based on being a member of a minority group that has suffered institutionalized oppression since day one in a society that you're constantly reminded that any equality you get is lip service and a pat on the back saying hey you're not slaves anymore and even one of you is the president (you know the same guy, that has earned legitimate criticism but that shit never gets heard because of butthurt latent racism making a shitstink over non-issues), walking around with the knowledge that a police officer may use any excuse to brutalize you during any interaction with them? That wouldn't make you more prone to flip your shit and go nuts when the authorities murdered one of your community and you're just fucking sick of it?
Did anyone really think von was going to have a different opinion on this? Like, really?
Nah, hear me out on this:
Immediately after the event, violent riots occurred.
In order to restord public order, the police had to resort to drastic measures because of the scale of things.
theres a shit ton of confusion and things are a potential powder keg -- of course the police remain heavy handed; theyre afraid rioting could resume.
I mean, its not a matter of me trying to say "grr these damn dirty apes are burning the world down"...rather trying to bring it into perspective that violent riots occured and the intense police reaction is still in that mindset -- that economic resources in the area could be detroyed and lives could be lost.
Because agent provocateurs dont exist, blacks are violent by nature and the police is there to save everyone from themselves and to "public order" them.
Quote from: The Johnny on August 15, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Because agent provocateurs dont exist, blacks are violent by nature and the police is there to save everyone from themselves and to "public order" them.
This is the most desperate case of grasping at straws ive ever seen.
for a multi day protest thats known about and has persisted for a few days...yeah, i can see agents. For a riot that occurs within 24 hours of the event people are mad at? please show me agents that have been contracted and organised in that time. It doesnt sound plausible.
As for blacks being violent by nature:
twid could tell you about that...afterall, they are a poor oppressed minority -- who can blame them for flipping out when one of their community gets killed?
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on August 15, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Because agent provocateurs dont exist, blacks are violent by nature and the police is there to save everyone from themselves and to "public order" them.
that occurs within 24 hours of the event people are mad at? please show me agents that have been contracted and organised in that time. It doesnt sound plausible.
Ignoring the rest of your crazy shit, are you actually fucking serious here?
The most obvious recent examples I can think of here are around the Student protests and London Riots. Either of those has plenty of video footage of what certainly appears to be examples of exactly this.
Hell, throw in any civil disturbance you please of late with "Agent provocateur" on the end and you'll probably find something. Ask anyone with any association with the Black Bloc about this. Given the sheer number of law enforcement agencies, I would have to assume that any group/movement above a certain size (Not that large either) would have a police presence of some description within it.
Or shall we just live in a fantasy land and pretend this shit just isn't occurring? Because I seem to live in a world where comedians get labelled as "domestic terrorists" (Mark Thomas, for one) and environmental groups warrant infiltration by intelligence agencies.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 07:51:12 AM
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on August 15, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Because agent provocateurs dont exist, blacks are violent by nature and the police is there to save everyone from themselves and to "public order" them.
that occurs within 24 hours of the event people are mad at? please show me agents that have been contracted and organised in that time. It doesnt sound plausible.
Ignoring the rest of your crazy shit, are you actually fucking serious here?
The most obvious recent examples I can think of here are around the Student protests and London Riots. Either of those has plenty of video footage of what certainly appears to be examples of exactly this.
Hell, throw in any civil disturbance you please of late with "Agent provocateur" on the end and you'll probably find something. Ask anyone with any association with the Black Bloc about this. Given the sheer number of law enforcement agencies, I would have to assume that any group/movement above a certain size (Not that large either) would have a police presence of some description within it.
Or shall we just live in a fantasy land and pretend this shit just isn't occurring? Because I seem to live in a world where comedians get labelled as "domestic terrorists" (Mark Thomas, for one) and environmental groups warrant infiltration by intelligence agencies.
About the london riots:
can you provide a source that isnt infowars, above top secret, godlike productions or some half baked, biased wordpress "news" site, because with query: "london riots + agent provocateur", that is literally all i get, plus a few odd references to the G20 protests.
With that said, i get even less by replacing "london" with "ferguson".
So, essentially, im seeing nothing but evidence coming from nothing but david icke tier morons on any matter of provocateurs...
Id like provocateurs to be the case, but given the short order of things, it really looks like the "provocateurs" here are just phantoms being used to justify the wanton destruction of several businesses and lives just because it jives well with a particular narrative...
You are equating the protesters to the rioters, or completely ignoring that there were protesters there at all. I'm sure that pastor who was shot with rubber bullets was just there for the looting.
Now, if that pig (unsub/perp/killer) were on a spit, we'd already be done wit it.
Well for the G20 one, I assume the Guardian is acceptable?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/10/g20-policing-agent-provacateurs
Key quote:
QuoteThe use of plain-clothes officers in crowd situations is considered a vital tactic for gathering evidence. It has been used effectively to combat football hooliganism in the UK and was employed during the May Day protests in 2001.
These kind of tactics are operational norms now. For anything that could reasonably fall under this banner.
London Riots -
How about some rather compelling video evidence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_wxw9hzWE
ETA - http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/undercover-officer-major-riot-john-jordan
QuoteFrom the Stephen Lawrence inquiry we learned that the police were institutionally racist. Can it be long before we learn that they are also institutionally corrupt? Almost every month the undercover policing scandal becomes wider and deeper. Today I can reveal a new twist, which in some respects could be the gravest episode yet. It surely makes the case for an independent public inquiry – which is already overwhelming – unarguable.
Before I explain it, here's a summary of what we know already. Thanks to the remarkable investigations pursued first by the victims of police spies and then by the Guardian journalists Rob Evans and Paul Lewis (whose book Undercover is as gripping as any thriller), we know that British police have been inserting undercover officers into protest movements since 1968. Their purpose was to counter what they called subversion or domestic extremism, which they define as seeking to "prevent something from happening or to change legislation or domestic policy ... outside the normal democratic process". Which is a good description of how almost all progressive change happens.
Most of the groups whose infiltration has now been exposed were non-violent. Among them were the British campaign against apartheid in South Africa, the protest movements against climate change, people seeking to expose police corruption and the campaign for justice for the murdered black teenager Stephen Lawrence. Undercover officers, often using the stolen identities of dead children, worked their way into key positions and helped to organise demonstrations. Several started long-term relationships with the people they spied on. At least two fathered children with them.
QuoteThe revelations so far have led to 56 people having their cases or convictions overturned, after police and prosecutors failed to disclose that officers had helped to plan and execute the protests for which people were being prosecuted. But we know the names of only 11 spies, out of 100-150, working for 46 years. Thousands of people might have been falsely prosecuted.
QuoteThe biggest inquiry still running, Operation Herne, is investigating alleged misconduct by the Metropolitan police. Of its 44 staff, 75% work for, er, the Metropolitan police. Its only decisive action so far has been to seek evidence for a prosecution under the Official Secrets Act of Peter Francis, the police whistleblower who has revealed key elements of this story. This looks like an attempt to discourage him from testifying, and to prevent other officers from coming forward.
Totally fine, I'm sure.
Or perhaps some details on the level of infiltration that goes on as a fairly standard thing?
http://www.indymedia.org/en/2011/01/945189.shtml
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/01/472317.html
(Long, but demonstrates the point well, I think)
QuoteMarco Jacobs", "Mark Stone", "Lynn Watson"
Three police officers all thought to work for The National Public Order Intelligence Unit (NPOIU), a political police unit with extensive links to large corporations, have been exposed by activists in the UK.
Two of them are known to have worked outside of UK police jurisdiction. All have actively taken part in illegal activity.
=====
"MARCO JACOBS" also known as "Mark Jacobs" Real name unknown
Infiltrated the Dissent! network of resistance against the G8 in Brighton, in 2004. Following suspicions that he was a policeman there, he moved to Cardiff, Wales where he successfully infiltrated Cardiff Anarchist Network (CAN).
He encouraged ideological and personal splits within CAN.
He had at least one sexual relationship within activist circles.
Using his connections he then became involved in the Rising Tide Network. He was at the centre of a set of police raids and arrests that targeted climate justice activists, including one on his own flat.
He was involved in the No Border campaigns for freedom of movement. He was minute taker at UK wide gatherings. He had prior knowledge of No Borders successful blockades to prevent immigration snatch squad dawn raids on families,
He attended (with "Mark Stone") a meeting in Poland prior to the G8 in Heligendam, It is believed that only one genuine UK based activist was at this event!
He travelled with UK activists to Germany to oppose the G8 in Heligendam, Germany 2007 and was actively involved in autonomous block planning at the Redelich camp.
In 2009 he attended planning meetings in Dijon for the Anti NATO resistance to take place in Strasbourg. He arrived with "Stone" . Set up website promoting this action.
He suddenly pulled out of attending the resistance to the G8 in St Petersburg Russia. Remained in contact with CAN activists in Russia.
Towards the end of his career in Cardiff, friends became suspicious of him and he was increasingly being left out of sensitive discussions. Ironically this included the location of the 2008 Camp for Climate Action, the location of which was known by a small group including "Watson" and "Stone".
======
"MARK STONE" Real name Mark Kennedy
Distributed Zapatista Coffee 'Rebelde' from Germany to UK social centres In 2004.
Extensive involvement in Ireland
Ireland Early 2004 attended a grassroots gathering promoting Scotland G8,
Ireland 2004 Mayday protests. Involved in attacking police. Supplied defensive equipment. People serve prison sentences relating to material delivered by him from UK.
Ireland 2004 Protests against George Bush summit at Dromoland castle.
Ireland 2005 Attended EFYA winter meeting in Co Clare 2005 Attended a meeting and fund-raiser for the G8 in Belfast.
Ireland 2006 Attended the Anarchist Bookfair and then went to Rossport solidarity camp.
UK Coordinated transport for the Dissent network of resistance against the G8 camp in Stirling Scotland in 2005. (a fleet of minibuses) Gained name "Transport Mark"
Was involved in planing Camp for Climate Action "land group" from 2006 onwards often in driver role.
Was for a number of years involved in Climate Justice groups which faced repeated raids and arrests. These groups have been actively disrupted during this period.
Had sexual relationships with a number of activists.
Involved in anti-police anti corporate actions with Saving Iceland campaign in Iceland.
Was actively involved in Berlin radical left groups for some months prior to the Heligendam G8. Actively promoted a violent assault on Berlin business district. (Plan B)
Took part in riots surrounding the eviction of ungdomshuset "youth house" In Copenhagen Denmark.
Is believed to have visited Denmark after this point. (can Danish comrades confirm?)
Using established anarchist contacts in Denmark he was well placed to inform on UK activists and others attending the Cop 13 negotiations in 2009.
Involved in anti-fascist activity. Encouraged anti-EDL campaigners to attack coaches carrying members of the extreme nationalist group to Bradford in 2010.
More recent involvement in Animal Rights circles such as attending 2010 international AR gathering in Milan, Italy.
Appears to have moved into Private Spying. He shared a business address with a director of Global Open a company of private spies composed of ex -Special Branch, (political police.)
Kennedys role, has received intense media coverage in the UK, following the collapse of a court case against activists on Monday 10th January. This has led to highest ranking policeman Sir Hugh Orde defending infiltration of left wing groups on the Newsnight television programme.
Mark Kennedy spoke about his infiltration to extreme right-wing newspaper The Mail on Sunday, He claimed to have operational influence over German and Danish police.
Both "Marco Jacobs" and "Mark Stone" attended the Dissent! Europe gathering prior to Strasbourg, France anti NATO in 2009. They arrived together, very little real UK based activist involvement. (same time as G20 London)
======
"LYNN WATSON" Real name unknown
In late 2003 Lynn Watson attended event at Aldermaston nuclear weapons factory and then joined a Trident Ploughshares affinity group. NVDA anti nuclear weapons group.
She took part in non-violence training (one of the trainers didn't get there as he was picked up on a warrant as he came off the ferry!) and attended a TP planning meeting.
During 2004 she also went to Aldermaston Womens Peace Camp and was very active in the Block the Builders campaign. (Direct action) She said she lived in Bournemouth and did care work.
In 2005 she moved to Leeds, Yorkshire. Active in environmental activist groups centred around anarchist social centre, The Common Place.
"Lynn Watson" used Bank Account.
(Redacted - details at link if you need them. Junkie)
Lynn was part of a small group who planned the site take for the Camp for Climate action in 2006 drax and 2007 Heathrow, less so 2008 kingsnorth.
Was member of UK Action medics collective, who provide first aid to the direct action community. Lynn was involved with UK action medics at Dissent G8 in Gleneagles 2005, and later that year at Earth First! gathering in Derbyshire. Later, she hosted an Action medics meeting at her house in Leeds.
She was also the UK contact when medics went to G8 in Russia, so the address they were staying at may have been passed on. (to Russian secret state?)
( "Marco Jacobs" filled similar role for CAN!)
Was member of the Rebel Clown Army. (unclear if this made them any less effective)
Had sexual relationships with some activists. Was "camera shy".
Is not known to have operated outside of the UK. (one unconfirmed sighting with "Mark Stone" in Berlin May 2006)
"Watson" "Stone" and "Jacobs" seem to have disappeared from left political circles in the UK.
All of the above is quite well documented in conventional media. I find no real reason to think that there are not many others filling similar roles in multiple causes.
You may want to ask Cain about our intelligence services fuck about with various right wing/fascist groups. Or you can carry on in your strange little world where this shit isn't routine. Do you seriously think that Law enforcement is your friend? It's not. It's doesn't give a shit about you.
I see why you could be reluctant to accept that this occurs if all you see is links to crazy people. Unfortunately crazy people are occasionally right. You should also consider the links between press/police/politicans somewhat more closely. It's in everyone's interests to have undesirable groups filled with undercover operatives.
The press gets a nice story. The police get mass arrests. The politicians get to be tough on crime.
I'm obviously a crazy old man and this kind of shit just doesn't occur. Ever.
ETA - If you're ever in a peaceful protest and some guys just start acting like dicks, I'd personally assume they were cops and request any police present to restrain and remove them due to their behaviour.
Oh, this is headline news today too:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28798836
QuoteThe Metropolitan Police has officially named two men who had relationships with women while working as undercover officers.
It is the first time in its history that it has confirmed the identities of undercover operatives.
The pair - Jim Boyling and Bob Lambert - are accused of deceiving the women by having relationships with them without disclosing who they really were.
Quote"The force's position, which we have repeated a number of times, is that long term sexual relationships between an undercover officer and a member of the public is and has never been an authorised tactic."
So LOVEINT is quite acceptable, provided it's only used in the short term.
You can see why I may have some degree of difficulty trusting these people.
>everything junkenstein just posted
thanks. no really, much better than what I was finding...
seeing it from non-hairbrained sources makes me reconsider the provocateur angle with much more seriousness.
LOL dickbutts
Im sure you will find some good rationalizations and twisted logic to keep up with your racism and approval of fascism in no time.
Liberal bias, blahblahrgh motherfucker
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on August 15, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
Because agent provocateurs dont exist, blacks are violent by nature and the police is there to save everyone from themselves and to "public order" them.
This is the most desperate case of grasping at straws ive ever seen.
for a multi day protest thats known about and has persisted for a few days...yeah, i can see agents. For a riot that occurs within 24 hours of the event people are mad at? please show me agents that have been contracted and organised in that time. It doesnt sound plausible.
As for blacks being violent by nature:
twid could tell you about that...afterall, they are a poor oppressed minority -- who can blame them for flipping out when one of their community gets killed?
Sorry, where did I say they were violent by nature?
Shut the fuck up.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2014, 03:39:13 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 03:32:56 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 15, 2014, 03:32:17 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2014, 03:17:04 PM
Shut the fuck up.
....who, me or von?
I'd put money on Von.
You'd be right. Sorry Twid, I missed there was another page and thought I was posting right after him.
No worries. I figured it was likely Von, but figured I'd make sure.
mike brown robbed a store before being killed and was killed by a black cop.
I'd protest for such injustice anyday! :lulz:
So if you commit a crime, it's OK for police to shoot you?
Or It's OK for black kids to get shot as long as it's a black cop that shoots them?
Holy fuck, I'd forgotten how much of an idiot racist you are.
Jonny/QG, Sincere apologies. You clearly had the correct motorcycle and I should have been on it instead of pointing out the fucking obvious about undercover cops.
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 03:45:09 PM
mike brown robbed a store before being killed and was killed by a black cop.
I'd protest for such injustice anyday! :lulz:
Black cops can't use excessive force against other black people? Is that in their nature?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 14, 2014, 03:17:54 PM
"We're gonna Protect and Serve the fuck out of you."
(http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/files/2014/08/Whitney-Ferguson-riot-gear-Ferguson-NYT-600x400.jpg)
I'm pleasantly surprised to see that this has become a FB meme. Go me.
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 03:45:09 PM
mike brown robbed a store before being killed and was killed by a black cop.
I'd protest for such injustice anyday! :lulz:
I'm a go ahead and clean, dust, and polish my wood furniture with this one now.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 03:53:50 PM
So if you commit a crime, it's OK for police to shoot you?
Or It's OK for black kids to get shot as long as it's a black cop that shoots them?
Holy fuck, I'd forgotten how much of an idiot racist you are.
Jonny/QG, Sincere apologies. You clearly had the correct motorcycle and I should have been on it instead of pointing out the fucking obvious about undercover cops.
Considering the narratives that are coming from the only remaining credible witness (i.e. the one who wasn't his accomplice in robbing a store an hour prior), he tried to take the cop's gun. That's grounds for deadly force right there...
As for the black cop thing, with all of the calls being put forth by "the community" to go loot white neighbourhoods rather than black ones, I think it's simple sour irony that he wasn't killed by the evil whitey.
Concerning the whole protest movement: everyone organised to protest the lawful killing of a violent criminal who assaulted an officer who was apprehending him for looking like a reported robber...who he happened to be. Wow, such justice. Much revolution. Many social progresses.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-release-name-officer-who-shot-michael-brown/onS0CNVvi9DSlNvSnxtzVL/story.html (http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-release-name-officer-who-shot-michael-brown/onS0CNVvi9DSlNvSnxtzVL/story.html)
QuoteCapt. Ronald S. Johnson, the highway patrol official appointed by the governor to take over the response, immediately signaled a change in approach. Johnson told reporters he had ordered troopers to remove their tear-gas masks, and in the early evening he accompanied several groups of protesters through the streets, clasping hands, listening to stories and marching alongside them.
THIS is the correct motorcycle.
I think there's this tactical notion among the police that overwhelming force just immediately neutralizes all resistance. Thing that gets forgotten is that when you aim to trigger a flight response in people, you could just as easily be hitting the fight response.
Anecdotally, I have some experience with being surrounded by RRT and waiting for them to start popping the tear gas. It's fucking scary. There was half of me that wanted to bone right out of there. There was half of me that wanted to stay and ride it out...then there was this
other portion of me that said waiting for what was coming was the worst possible thing so FUCK IT...let's get this party started.
I could be wholly unique in that reaction. Or it could explain a lot about why, when police show up dressed for a riot, people so often oblige them.
Your reading skills aren't really up to par, are they?
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 03:53:50 PM
So if you commit a crime, it's OK for police to shoot you?
Or It's OK for black kids to get shot as long as it's a black cop that shoots them?
Holy fuck, I'd forgotten how much of an idiot racist you are.
Concerning the whole protest movement: everyone organised to protest the lawful killing of a violent criminal who assaulted an officer who was apprehending him for looking like a reported robber...who he happened to be. Wow, such justice. Much revolution. Many social progresses.
You really need to look into the London riots a couple of years back. If you honestly think this is solely about the cop and the kid alone you're not really getting it.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 03:53:50 PM
So if you commit a crime, it's OK for police to shoot you?
Or It's OK for black kids to get shot as long as it's a black cop that shoots them?
Holy fuck, I'd forgotten how much of an idiot racist you are.
Concerning the whole protest movement: everyone organised to protest the lawful killing of a violent criminal who assaulted an officer who was apprehending him for looking like a reported robber...who he happened to be. Wow, such justice. Much revolution. Many social progresses.
You really need to look into the London riots a couple of years back. If you honestly think this is solely about the cop and the kid alone you're not really getting it.
What I'm getting is that Missouri is a long way from london...
Your spotted dick is a long way from London.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
Your spotted dick is a long way from London.
can you respond with anything more than petty insults or are you too busy getting off on neckbeards catching blueballs again?
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 05:33:17 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
Your spotted dick is a long way from London.
can you respond with anything more than petty insults or are you too busy getting off on neckbeards catching blueballs again?
You're not worth a long troll.
Campaign contributions and election results for Ferguson? Most people ran unopposed. Contributions came from the candidates themselves and fa local construction firm . A small number of affluent people who have the time to bother with local politics run the town with no opposition.
Explain where/how this is different to the UK. Answers on a postcard to the usual address. Small prize to the funniest answer.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 05:36:52 PM
Campaign contributions and election results for Ferguson? Most people ran unopposed. Contributions came from the candidates themselves and fa local construction firm . A small number of affluent people who have the time to bother with local politics run the town with no opposition.
Explain where/how this is different to the UK. Answers on a postcard to the usual address. Small prize to the funniest answer.
>most people ran unopposed
then run against them.
:facepalm:
You may also want to research "Rotten Boroughs".
I'm out. I tried, but I give up with you. Try and drop the 4chan mindsets for a while and you might get a little further in life and such.
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 05:04:37 AM
Nah, hear me out on this:
nope, because i am in an assholish mood.
Normally I would read that but today all anyone gets is a FUCK YOU MANURE-FUCKER!
So, the cop who shot Brown was revealed by the cops, but I can't figure out if it's the same person Anonymous "outed".
I'm thinking it isn't, but I can't confirm that.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 15, 2014, 06:55:08 PM
So, the cop who shot Brown was revealed by the cops, but I can't figure out if it's the same person Anonymous "outed".
I'm thinking it isn't, but I can't confirm that.
It's not. Ferguson PD said the person Anonymous outed didn't even work for them. Also :horrormirth:
Well done, Anonymous. Such confidence. Much inspire.
Some Anonymous hackers on Twitter sounded the alarm that this info was suspect first. I believe one of them pointed out they were given the info by another person in IRC and didn't do any due diligence in, y'know, checking out it wasn't a bunch of bullshit before posting it everywhere.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 15, 2014, 03:53:50 PM
So if you commit a crime, it's OK for police to shoot you?
Or It's OK for black kids to get shot as long as it's a black cop that shoots them?
Holy fuck, I'd forgotten how much of an idiot racist you are.
Jonny/QG, Sincere apologies. You clearly had the correct motorcycle and I should have been on it instead of pointing out the fucking obvious about undercover cops.
was a nice summary of police infiltration, i was too lazy myself to link it up
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html
QuotePolice in Ferguson, Missouri, once charged a man with destruction of property for bleeding on their uniforms while four of them allegedly beat him.
"On and/or about the 20th day of Sept. 20, 2009 at or near 222 S. Florissant within the corporate limits of Ferguson, Missouri, the above named defendant did then and there unlawfully commit the offense of 'property damage' to wit did transfer blood to the uniform," reads the charge sheet.
The address is the headquarters of the Ferguson Police Department, where a 52-year-old welder named Henry Davis was taken in the predawn hours on that date. He had been arrested for an outstanding warrant that proved to actually be for another man of the same surname, but a different middle name and Social Security number.
"I said, 'I told you guys it wasn't me,'" Davis later testified.
He recalled the booking officer saying, "We have a problem."
The booking officer had no other reason to hold Davis, who ended up in Ferguson only because he missed the exit for St. Charles and then pulled off the highway because the rain was so heavy he could not see to drive. The cop who had pulled up behind him must have run his license plate and assumed he was that other Henry Davis. Davis said the cop approached his vehicle, grabbed his cellphone from his hand, cuffed him and placed him in the back seat of the patrol car, without a word of explanation.
But the booking officer was not ready just to let Davis go, and proceeded to escort him to a one-man cell that already had a man in it asleep on the lone bunk. Davis says that he asked the officer if he could at least have one of the sleeping mats that were stacked nearby.
"He said I wasn't getting one," Davis said.
Davis balked at being a second man in a one-man cell.
"Because it's 3 in the morning," he later testified. "Who going to sleep on a cement floor?"
The booking officer summoned a number of fellow cops. One opened the cell door while another suddenly charged, propelling Davis inside and slamming him against the back wall.
"I told the police officers there that I didn't do nothing, 'Why is you guys doing this to me?'" Davis testified. "They said, 'OK, just lay on the ground and put your hands behind your back.'"
Davis said he complied and that a female officer straddled and then handcuffed him. Two other officers crowded into the cell.
"They started hitting me," he testified. "I was getting hit and I just covered up."
The other two stepped out and the female officer allegedly lifted Davis' head as the cop who had initially pushed him into the cell reappeared.
"He ran in and kicked me in the head," Davis recalled. "I almost passed out at that point... Paramedics came... They said it was too much blood, I had to go to the hospital."
A patrol car took the bleeding Davis to a nearby emergency room. He refused treatment, demanding somebody first take his picture.
"I wanted a witness and proof of what they done to me," Davis said.
He was driven back to the jail, where he was held for several days before he posted $1,500 bond on four counts of "property damage." Police Officer John Beaird had signed complaints swearing on pain of perjury that Davis had bled on his uniform and those of three fellow officers.
It's half tempting to do the same for infiltrations of Anonymous.
There is of course no chance that random person in the IRC had any links at all with anything government related agency.
It's probably an external contractor.
Do you think that's a joke?
Quote from: von on August 15, 2014, 12:21:12 AM
>everyone omitting the fact that the day after Mike Brown got killed, there were violent riots and looting in the streets
Fuck this narrative about peaceful protesters. They devolved into smashing in store fronts and stealing shit at random on day one. Hardly "peaceful" and hardly directed at the police force that committed injustice against them, if you ask me...
Which is why journalists were arrested, naturally.
Quote[...] the media and what seems to be the general public would rather show more concern for the store owners whose property are being taken than for the black lives that are being lost. This has me begging the question, would black peoples lives be more valued if we were still property?
http://thisisbobbylondon.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/looting-is-a-political-tactic/
Interesting question in the era where property = people, but people ≠ property.
Quote from: go shit on someone else on August 16, 2014, 12:45:59 PM
Quote[...] the media and what seems to be the general public would rather show more concern for the store owners whose property are being taken than for the black lives that are being lost. This has me begging the question, would black peoples lives be more valued if we were still property?
http://thisisbobbylondon.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/looting-is-a-political-tactic/
Interesting question in the era where property = people, but people ≠ property.
Maybe if blacks were still slaver's property? :roll:
Quote from: go shit on someone else on August 16, 2014, 12:45:59 PM
Quote[...] the media and what seems to be the general public would rather show more concern for the store owners whose property are being taken than for the black lives that are being lost. This has me begging the question, would black peoples lives be more valued if we were still property?
http://thisisbobbylondon.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/looting-is-a-political-tactic/
Interesting question in the era where property = people, but people ≠ property.
It's a shame that this is followed by a crappy commentary as looting as a political tactic.
Don't mistake me, I heartily agree that it certainly can be. Looting for essentials to survival is surely understandable to anyone. That's where you get the first problem. As I understand it there was no natural disaster or such, so that gives a reasonable indication of the level of tension in the area. Demographic maps are circulating that show quite stunning levels of segregation.
The second part of the problem is invariably the targets of such attention. They tend to be poorly chosen in the most part either focusing on whatever is nearest or an obvious easy target. Mcdonalds gets hit every time. So do many banks, but the focus is always going to be on commercial outlets, particularly smaller ones which shows personal gain at another's expense in the most personal possible level. It's the human interest angle and it plays well. It's also the quickest way to turn public sympathy against any demonstration.
The third part of the problem, is that these fuckers who get caught looting are always doing it fucking wrong. Here's what I want to see - A protest where a huge fucking crowd protects a group of 500 Black bloc looking guys who systematically grab and pile up and burn every single TV they can lay their hands on from a couple of shops and supermarkets alone you'll have a giant fucking pile. Or here's a radical idea, Booze! Everyone distinctly abstains while doing so too. Or guns. Whatever, you get the idea here. The point is to pick something that's a notable problem to the community in question. That's a charming statement and would be funny as hell to see reported about.
If not to that extent, any and all "property re-distribution" needs to be visibly to better someone else(Charity etc.) or be relatively essential. To harp on about the London riots again, many pictures came out with kids gaining electronic crap. There were a few however that were grabbing giant bags of cheap food and that's obviously quite a different story. If it was only food/essentials taken then it's hard to play a greed angle. The numbers of people below the poverty line are always startling so it's really only surprising that this kind of stuff doesn't occur more regularly.
Some points I don't believe were mentioned yet. The officer who shot the lad was not aware of the robbery or the suspect's description. After the State Highway Patrol Captain was assigned as the authority in the area, and then the looting resumed at night, local citizens stood in front of shop windows to prevent more damage. Nothing about this situation is homogeneous.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=1&referrer (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=1&referrer)
PLAIN
PUSILLANIMOUS
POLICE
PATROL
PLAYIN
PIG
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28832462
QuoteGovernor Jay Nixon signed an order to "help restore peace and order and to protect the citizens of Ferguson".
The decision was made as police clashed with angry crowds shortly before a second night under curfew began.
Police in Ferguson, a suburb of St Louis, said they came under attack and had "no alternative" but to respond.
Cpt Ron Johnson said protesters had thrown Molotov cocktails and bottles at security forces, and set up barricades before the five-hour curfew began at midnight (05:00 GMT).
"For those who would claim that the curfew was what led to [the] violence, I will remind you this incident began three and a half hours before the curfew was to have started," he told journalists in Ferguson on Monday.
QuoteA preliminary autopsy by the St Louis County Medical Examiner's office on the day after Mr Brown's death found he had been shot, police said, without disclosing how many times.
But a preliminary private autopsy report found that he had been shot at least six times, including twice in the head, the New York Times reports.
US Attorney General Eric Holder has ordered a federal post-mortem on the body of the 18-year-old, to take place "as soon as possible".
The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range due to the lack of gunpowder on the victim's body, forensic pathologist Michael Baden was quoted by the paper as saying.
Releasing details like that and then trying to impose a curfew is idiocy at best. Police presence and actions here have almost certainty escalated the situation. The sole purpose of a curfew here is to give a solid reason for anyone to be arrested for being outside.
I could make a shitty comment about the land of the free having a midnight curfew,but it's self evident.
What is also becoming increasingly obvious is which residents are benefiting from this increased protection. I've not seen them, but I bet the lines of police/guard deployment are shockingly similar to that demographic map.
Quote from: Trivial on August 18, 2014, 04:01:40 AM
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=1&referrer (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=1&referrer)
There's something very strange going on here. Eyewitness accounts (Notorious for being bullshit/useless) drastically contradict what the released autopsy indicates. However that autopsy is kind of flawed as it's missing key information including 3 bullets that have magically vanished. The initial autopsy results are still apparently unknown and a third to be done because no-one trusts these first two, despite not even knowing what one of them says.
I would usually just discount the eyewitness evidence but when it's this divergent I can't help but suspect that shady shit is afoot. There's certain enough people involved with means, motive and opportunity to interfere and I would be inclined to assume such things are occurring.
It seems worth noting that the reaction continues along the same expected lines you can guess at from previous similar events. At some point someone might just realise that maybe this isn't the best way to handle shit like this.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 18, 2014, 08:25:50 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28832462
Quote
"For those who would claim that the curfew was what led to [the] violence, I will remind you this incident began three and a half hours before the curfew was to have started," he told journalists in Ferguson on Monday.
A primates sense of causality in this one - just because something that was stated to be taken into action in the near future hasnt happened yet, doest exclude it from being the causality.
It's almost as if they didn't learn anything from when they stood down, took off their military gear, and had the highway patrol treat the protesters like human beings.
There's now even a slimmer probability of things ending even reasonably well.
It's like calling the police because you're being mugged, and they show up and beat you harder and then THEY take your wallet.
Not turning into a losertarian here, but someone remind me why we keep any of these shits around?
Well, someone has to keep buying all these castoffs from the military-industrial complex.
Perhaps the counter-protests will help calm it all down:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/ferguson-supporters-police-killed-teenager-protest
Quotebout 150 people gathered for an afternoon demonstration in downtown St Louis, 12 miles southeast of Ferguson, where Michael Brown, 18, was shot repeatedly by Darren Wilson last Saturday afternoon. Some wielded placards with messages defending the 28-year-old officer and his family.
"He was doing his job," said Kaycee Reinisch, 57, of Lincoln County, Missouri. "And now because of public uproar in Ferguson, he is being victimised. He is being victimised by the whole city, the state and the federal government." Reinisch said she had relations in law enforcement who would be "frightened to do their jobs" if Wilson were punished for the incident.
Quote"We will be the example of what peaceful means," the organisers told attendees in an online message beforehand. "No offensive signs, we are for support," they said. "If the other side should show, we will not argue or fight."
The demonstration was initially silent. Eventually the protesters – many wearing blue in a mark of support for the police – began cheering as passing cars honked their horns in agreement. One man riding a Harley-Davidson revved his engine loudly to generous applause.
While the crowds protesting in Ferguson have been predominantly African American, all but one of the demonstrators showing their support for Wilson were white. A stack of dark blue t-shirts, onsale for $7 and bearing a police-style badge stating: "Officer Darren Wilson – I stand by you", quickly sold out.
QuoteMany group members have made postings casting doubt on the version of events offered by people who claim to have witnessed the shooting, while others attempted to explain why Wilson might have shot Brown.
"An officer doesn't have xray vision," wrote Jennifer Hall, of Robertsville, Missouri. "He can't tell if you have weapon or not until searched. So you act in a suspicious manner, we know what the consequences are."
QuoteRobin Barklage, who said he once lived in one of the apartment buildings overlooking the site of Brown's shooting, said he believed police claims that Brown assaulted Wilson. "I believe he did what he had to do," said Barklage. "No officer is going to go further then they need to".
In summary -
White people find no problems with racism
Police need to be able to kill people to be able to do their job.
You should be totally deferential to police because otherwise they're AOK to just shoot you.
No police officers ever get out of line.
Nothing suspicious about all that, I'm sure.
(https://i.imgur.com/BYpmxFA.jpg)
Bullet wounds from the Federal first autopsy. Federal is scheduled later today or tomorrow apparently.
Pretty sure the federal autopsy didn't put the text on there. If it could only happen with arms up then how come you can see it on an anatomically accurate diagram?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 18, 2014, 02:48:34 PM
Pretty sure the federal autopsy didn't put the text on there. If it could only happen with arms up then how come you can see it on an anatomically accurate diagram?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/michael-brown-autopsy_n_5686672.html Has original image without the added text, including statements that autopsy confirms witness description of events/victim had hands raised when shot.
Also, three head/two face shots is beyond excessive.
Agitators/Looters/Douchebags are apparently Commies:
http://themissouritorch.com/blog/2014/08/17/meet-greg-joey-johnson-an-opportunistic-communist-revolutionary-agitating-in-ferguson-video/ (http://themissouritorch.com/blog/2014/08/17/meet-greg-joey-johnson-an-opportunistic-communist-revolutionary-agitating-in-ferguson-video/)
QuoteOpportunistic radical groups from across the country are flocking to Ferguson, Missouri to take advantage of the death of Michael Brown, a young black male shot by local police.
One of the first to arrive in town were communists from Chicago.
Videos on that article showing commie shitnecks chanting "Pigs" into a bullhorn alongside protests. Same group that was agitating at treyvon martin too apparently.
QuoteAbout the Author: Duane Lester
.... In 2012, Duane was the recipient of the first Breitbart Blogger Award.
Well, that makes the content a total shock.
My best guess would be further attempts to influence the public against any protesters. Communism is apparently still a scary thing to many so it would seem to be a simple way to shift the feeling against them. "Not protesters - Socialists!".
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 18, 2014, 03:23:17 PM
QuoteAbout the Author: Duane Lester
.... In 2012, Duane was the recipient of the first Breitbart Blogger Award.
Well, that makes the content a total shock.
My best guess would be further attempts to influence the public against any protesters. Communism is apparently still a scary thing to many so it would seem to be a simple way to shift the feeling against them. "Not protesters - Socialists!".
You know, not everyone in Munich was marching in the torch-lit parades. Most people just watched from the sidelines and felt great about things. Duane would know those people and call them his own.
I'm inclined to agree.
I'm trying to think of an apt comparison for the lone black guy who was part of the pro-police demo.
QuoteOne was bought by Martin Baker, a consultant and former Republican congressional primary candidate and the only black member of the crowd. "People are too quick to play the race card," said Baker, 44, on widespread claims by black residents Ferguson residents that they are subjected to institutional racism by the city's almost unanimously white authorities. "Lawlessness knows no colour."
I bet he's a popular chap with the locals.
No, Seriously, he probably is. For a start all those people now know a black guy so they can say all sorts of cretinous crap and it's O.K now. They've got a black friend you see. Racists don't have black friends.
"Judas Goat"?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/18/klan-heading-to-ferguson-to-guard-white-businesses-back-shooting-of-ngger-criminal/
I quit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 19, 2014, 01:23:14 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/18/klan-heading-to-ferguson-to-guard-white-businesses-back-shooting-of-ngger-criminal/
I quit.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvWtxfYIYAAYYeu.jpg)
a bit off on their seasons though.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 19, 2014, 01:23:14 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/18/klan-heading-to-ferguson-to-guard-white-businesses-back-shooting-of-ngger-criminal/
I quit.
Guns and more? What's the and more?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/18/video-john-olivers-scathing-take-on-ferguson/
Incidentally, I've tweeted Senators Warren and Markey, and Representative Capuano about whether or not they would support legislation curbing the militarization of law enforcement. I've received no response.
Just saw a tweet where someonehad a list of all the places that have been hit by looters with sources. Holy shit. Explains last nights aggressive force better.
QuoteQuick Trip (looted & burned)
Domino's Pizza (looted & burned)
Ferguson Chop Suey (looted & burned)
Taco Bell (looted & vandalized)
St. Vincent de Paul Thrift Store (who loots a church thrift store?)
Autozone
Red's BBQ
Shoe Carnival
Zisser Tire Auto Service
Sam's Meat Market
Dellwood Market
Target
Walmart
Ferguson Market & Liqour
Yellow Diamond Boutique
Feel Beauty Supply
Foot Locker
Kmart
PNC Bank
Walgreens
Quick Cash
Family Dollar
Boost Mobile
DTLR
Hibbett Sports
Velvet Freeze Ice Cream
Remy Beauty Supply
Cricket Wireless
Phillips 66
Energy Express
JC Wireless
T-Mobile
Sprint
Radioshack
Firestone Complete Auto Care Store
Dollar General
Up N Up Fashion
Office Depot
Knodel's Bakery and Catering
Hohmeier Auto Body
Dierbergs Market
Ross Dress for Less
Advance Auto Parts
ToysRUs
Payless Shoe Store
Sources:
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/10/report-michael-brown-protesters-damage-police-vehicles-on-west-florissant/
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/embed?mid=zQXCU9jTCWt8.k_AxWZwk4ODM
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/16/crisis-in-ferguson/
Strange there's no mention of force contium yet. As I understand things, local cops need to state a series of warnings prior to any shooting (stop/drop weapon etc.) 3 letter agencies have a lot more wiggle room depending on circumstances. I guess I'm just curious as to why all levels of law enforcement have gained FBI/dea/atf shooting requirements and protection.
Quote from: Da6s on August 19, 2014, 04:48:28 AM
Just saw a tweet where someonehad a list of all the places that have been hit by looters with sources. Holy shit. Explains last nights aggressive force better.
QuoteQuick Trip (looted & burned)
Domino's Pizza (looted & burned)
Ferguson Chop Suey (looted & burned)
Taco Bell (looted & vandalized)
St. Vincent de Paul Thrift Store (who loots a church thrift store?)
Autozone
Red's BBQ
Shoe Carnival
Zisser Tire Auto Service
Sam's Meat Market
Dellwood Market
Target
Walmart
Ferguson Market & Liqour
Yellow Diamond Boutique
Feel Beauty Supply
Foot Locker
Kmart
PNC Bank
Walgreens
Quick Cash
Family Dollar
Boost Mobile
DTLR
Hibbett Sports
Velvet Freeze Ice Cream
Remy Beauty Supply
Cricket Wireless
Phillips 66
Energy Express
JC Wireless
T-Mobile
Sprint
Radioshack
Firestone Complete Auto Care Store
Dollar General
Up N Up Fashion
Office Depot
Knodel's Bakery and Catering
Hohmeier Auto Body
Dierbergs Market
Ross Dress for Less
Advance Auto Parts
ToysRUs
Payless Shoe Store
Sources:
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/10/report-michael-brown-protesters-damage-police-vehicles-on-west-florissant/
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/embed?mid=zQXCU9jTCWt8.k_AxWZwk4ODM
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/16/crisis-in-ferguson/
Military armed men have no place in civilian settings unless the civilians are armed... i mean, really? kill them all in the name of taco bell?
Theres a reason why the military is not police and viceversa, one is for killing and the other is supposed to uphold the laws thru detention (which most of the time means incapacitating by arrest or non lethal means, and if someone is endangering others, thats what the SWAT teams are for).
Since when are civilians of your own country treated as enemy combatants... OH WAIT, i forgot its the 21st century.
Another interesting case. St. Louis cops caught threatening a black kid on probation to help them plant a gun on someone.
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Man-films-local-officers-attempt-to-intimidate-him-under-false-pretences-249957921.html
http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Officer-accused-of-harassing-St-Louis-man-270244091.html
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 19, 2014, 01:50:49 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 19, 2014, 01:23:14 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/18/klan-heading-to-ferguson-to-guard-white-businesses-back-shooting-of-ngger-criminal/
I quit.
Guns and more? What's the and more?
One practice grenade.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 19, 2014, 07:44:12 AM
Strange there's no mention of force contium yet. As I understand things, local cops need to state a series of warnings prior to any shooting (stop/drop weapon etc.) 3 letter agencies have a lot more wiggle room depending on circumstances. I guess I'm just curious as to why all levels of law enforcement have gained FBI/dea/atf shooting requirements and protection.
Generally speaking, the force continuum is more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule or legal requirement. Basically, if any "reasonable officer" thinks that the force used was justified, it is...
Consider:
>officer makes contact with suspect in a traffic stop (we now have #1 on the contiuum, force of presence)
>officer orders suspect to present ID (#2, lawful orders)
>suspect refuses, goes nuts and starts making threats and pull a gun (suspect just elevated shit immensely)
>officer responds by shooting the suspect (skipped unarmed subject control and less-lethal weapons and jumped to lethal force because it's "reasonable" to counter the threat of an armed attacker)
In this example case, because it can be argued that a reasonable officer (hell, a reasonable civillian in most cases) would deem this appropriate use of force, it's legal.
Unrelated to that, but it's getting real interesting what with the Klan and New Black Panthers showing up. Having two diametrically opposed, highly infiltrated, hate groups throwing shit at each other should prove to make this an absolutely abysmal situation.
The Black Panthers are not the black equivalent of the KKK, in case you didn't get the memo.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2014, 08:05:15 PM
The Black Panthers are not the black equivalent of the KKK, in case you didn't get the memo.
He did, and then promptly misinterpreted said memo.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2014, 08:05:15 PM
The Black Panthers are not the black equivalent of the KKK, in case you didn't get the memo.
save it.
the new black panthers are certainly an infiltrated organisation given their big name and record of allegations such as voter intimidation, etc.
I could care less whether they're black klansmen or not -- the point is that they're man who was thursday tier infiltrated, just like any other big name controversial group.
same with the kkk...
it was mentioned earlier about agents provocateur...with these two groups in town, I think you've got your candidates...
Quote from: von on August 19, 2014, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2014, 08:05:15 PM
The Black Panthers are not the black equivalent of the KKK, in case you didn't get the memo.
save it.
the new black panthers are certainly an infiltrated organisation given their big name and record of allegations such as voter intimidation, etc.
I could care less whether they're black klansmen or not -- the point is that they're man who was thursday tier infiltrated, just like any other big name controversial group.
same with the kkk...
it was mentioned earlier about agents provocateur...with these two groups in town, I think you've got your candidates...
Um, no. See the thing is the Black Panthers don't erect flaming effigies of hate on people's front lawns. They don't hunt human beings down, cut off their genitals, stuff them in their mouths, and then hang them from trees.
The two organizations are not even remotely similar, and the fact that you think they are says a lot about you. Maybe Stormfront is more your speed?
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2014, 11:26:50 PM
Quote from: von on August 19, 2014, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2014, 08:05:15 PM
The Black Panthers are not the black equivalent of the KKK, in case you didn't get the memo.
save it.
the new black panthers are certainly an infiltrated organisation given their big name and record of allegations such as voter intimidation, etc.
I could care less whether they're black klansmen or not -- the point is that they're man who was thursday tier infiltrated, just like any other big name controversial group.
same with the kkk...
it was mentioned earlier about agents provocateur...with these two groups in town, I think you've got your candidates...
Um, no. See the thing is the Black Panthers don't erect flaming effigies of hate on people's front lawns. They don't hunt human beings down, cut off their genitals, stuff them in their mouths, and then hang them from trees.
The two organizations are not even remotely similar, and the fact that you think they are says a lot about you. Maybe Stormfront is more your speed?
you're a tremendous fucking faggot.
did you catch the meaning of anything I wrote, or are you just waltzing around wanting to shove your fucking cock down someone's throat when they propose something just because you think you can earn a fucking cookie for attacking a presumed racist?
here, let me restate for you:
both of these groups, regardless of whether they're nut-slicing white hangmen or little innocent revolutionaries for racial equality, are likely infiltrated by the state. with both of them there, this gives their handlers some really interesting fodder for provoking unwarranted violence.
THIS. this is the point: that these two fucking groups are fucking tools for the state.
for your own education, I'd also advise you to research the difference between the historical "old" black panthers and KKK of the 60s and 70s, and contrast them to the unrelated-in-all-but-name
New Black Panther Party (an anti-semitic, black nationalist hate group, per SLPC) and the KKK as it has existed since the 1990s.
Suddenly I don't give a fuck about anything von has to say about anything.
Ok, that was a lie.
I never did.
You may or may not be racist, you stupid shit.
But you are certainly a homophobe and your deep need for cock is showing. Go explore fuck yourself and GTFO.
Nigel needs to put a bigger dick up his ass.
Quote from: Alty on August 19, 2014, 11:46:35 PM
You may or may not be racist, you stupid shit.
But you are certainly a homophobe and your deep need for cock is showing. Go explore fuck yourself and GTFO.
my ex boyfriends could tell you otherwise...
Oh, well, that makes it all better.
Von, whether or not you love the cock, this isn't 4chan. Repeat after me. This. Isn't. 4Chan.
You can't just casually throw slurs around. It's guaranteed to get us to dismiss anything you're saying.
That said, Hoops did miss your point, which I caught the second time you said it. But it did seem at first like you were comparing the two groups ideologically.
Ok, while you guys are arguing about arguing the St Louis police done shot themselves another young black guy
19 August 2014 Last updated at 22:26
Michael Brown shooting: Protests as police kill armed man
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28861149
He had a knife, and he was asking for it. No, really;
QuoteSt Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said witnesses reported the man had been behaving in an erratic manner, and emphasised the officers had a right to defend themselves.
"The suspect turned toward officers, pulled out knife in an overhand grip, told officers to 'shoot me now, kill me now,'" he told reporters.
God damned Al Sharpton is giving Mike Brown's eulogy.
I feel like there's a daytime version of this that's farcical but sometimes feel good and a nighttime version of this shit that is terrifying with flashbacks to racial tensions of the 50s/60s.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 12:11:02 AM
Von, whether or not you love the cock, this isn't 4chan. Repeat after me. This. Isn't. 4Chan.
You can't just casually throw slurs around. It's guaranteed to get us to dismiss anything you're saying.
That said, Hoops did miss your point, which I caught the second time you said it. But it did seem at first like you were comparing the two groups ideologically.
No, I totally understood his point and found it to be completely fucking irrelevant to anything being discussed. He has no evidence either organization is "infiltrated", and he referred to both groups as hate groups. Which one is clearly not.
Please do not mistake me ignoring his point for misunderstanding it.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 20, 2014, 12:34:30 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 12:11:02 AM
Von, whether or not you love the cock, this isn't 4chan. Repeat after me. This. Isn't. 4Chan.
You can't just casually throw slurs around. It's guaranteed to get us to dismiss anything you're saying.
That said, Hoops did miss your point, which I caught the second time you said it. But it did seem at first like you were comparing the two groups ideologically.
No, I totally understood his point and found it to be completely fucking irrelevant to anything being discussed. He has no evidence either organization is "infiltrated", and he referred to both groups as hate groups. Which one is clearly not.
Please do not mistake me ignoring his point for misunderstanding it.
Ah, gotcha.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 20, 2014, 12:34:30 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 12:11:02 AM
Von, whether or not you love the cock, this isn't 4chan. Repeat after me. This. Isn't. 4Chan.
You can't just casually throw slurs around. It's guaranteed to get us to dismiss anything you're saying.
That said, Hoops did miss your point, which I caught the second time you said it. But it did seem at first like you were comparing the two groups ideologically.
No, I totally understood his point and found it to be completely fucking irrelevant to anything being discussed. He has no evidence either organization is "infiltrated", and he referred to both groups as hate groups. Which one is clearly not.
Please do not mistake me ignoring his point for misunderstanding it.
Regardless of the whole infiltration thing, you can't really say that the new black panthers aren't a hate group. Unless hate against white people isn't actually hate, but is instead reverse hate. like reverse racism, which is actually just racism.
Anyways, I'm not saying that the two are comparable, because the KKK have done way more fucked up things than the BPP have, but they aren't exactly sunshine and rainbows.
Here's one of their leaders taking about how bad he would like to kill white people, even if he has to start with just babies.
(nsfw) Kill the Crackers, Kill them all: http://youtu.be/DDb2byj74oY
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 20, 2014, 01:21:03 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 20, 2014, 12:34:30 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 12:11:02 AM
Von, whether or not you love the cock, this isn't 4chan. Repeat after me. This. Isn't. 4Chan.
You can't just casually throw slurs around. It's guaranteed to get us to dismiss anything you're saying.
That said, Hoops did miss your point, which I caught the second time you said it. But it did seem at first like you were comparing the two groups ideologically.
No, I totally understood his point and found it to be completely fucking irrelevant to anything being discussed. He has no evidence either organization is "infiltrated", and he referred to both groups as hate groups. Which one is clearly not.
Please do not mistake me ignoring his point for misunderstanding it.
Regardless of the whole infiltration thing, you can't really say that the new black panthers aren't a hate group. Unless hate against white people isn't actually hate, but is instead reverse hate. like reverse racism, which is actually just racism.
Anyways, I'm not saying that the two are comparable, because the KKK have done way more fucked up things than the BPP have, but they aren't exactly sunshine and rainbows.
Here's one of their leaders taking about how bad he would like to kill white people, even if he has to start with just babies.
(nsfw) Kill the Crackers, Kill them all: http://youtu.be/DDb2byj74oY
I'm going to disagree strongly with this yet again.
"The" modern ku klux klan is in fact a series of small, incompetent groups that have very VERY little to do with the post-1915 "second klan" that most people think of when they think of the segregation/civil rights era KKK.
For the most part, these variegated modern klan
s are just loud mouthed racist propaganda pushers and protesters, and in reality, aren't that far removed from the NBPP in terms of the scope of their operations. The most these modern klans have really done in terms of violent atrocities has been a beating or two between all of these organisations since 1990. The majority of their IRL activities is nothing more than embarassingly fail-filled protests...
references:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/knights-of-the-ku-klux-klan
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/imperial-klans-of-america
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/church-of-the-national-knights-of-the-ku-klux-klan
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/brotherhood-of-klans
concerning the NBPP:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/new-black-panther-party
Somebody always has to argue me on my page about guns. Either way, this came up. DailyMail though, and I haven't watched all the vids.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727321/Conversation-recorded-bystander-just-moments-Michael-Brown-shooting-casts-doubt-claims-teen-surrendered-Officer-Darren-Wilson.html
I am still wanting to know how any of this justifies arresting reporters.
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 20, 2014, 01:21:03 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 20, 2014, 12:34:30 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 12:11:02 AM
Von, whether or not you love the cock, this isn't 4chan. Repeat after me. This. Isn't. 4Chan.
You can't just casually throw slurs around. It's guaranteed to get us to dismiss anything you're saying.
That said, Hoops did miss your point, which I caught the second time you said it. But it did seem at first like you were comparing the two groups ideologically.
No, I totally understood his point and found it to be completely fucking irrelevant to anything being discussed. He has no evidence either organization is "infiltrated", and he referred to both groups as hate groups. Which one is clearly not.
Please do not mistake me ignoring his point for misunderstanding it.
Regardless of the whole infiltration thing, you can't really say that the new black panthers aren't a hate group. Unless hate against white people isn't actually hate, but is instead reverse hate. like reverse racism, which is actually just racism.
Anyways, I'm not saying that the two are comparable, because the KKK have done way more fucked up things than the BPP have, but they aren't exactly sunshine and rainbows.
Here's one of their leaders taking about how bad he would like to kill white people, even if he has to start with just babies.
(nsfw) Kill the Crackers, Kill them all: http://youtu.be/DDb2byj74oY
I'm going to disagree strongly with this yet again.
"The" modern ku klux klan is in fact a series of small, incompetent groups that have very VERY little to do with the post-1915 "second klan" that most people think of when they think of the segregation/civil rights era KKK.
For the most part, these variegated modern klans are just loud mouthed racist propaganda pushers and protesters, and in reality, aren't that far removed from the NBPP in terms of the scope of their operations. The most these modern klans have really done in terms of violent atrocities has been a beating or two between all of these organisations since 1990. The majority of their IRL activities is nothing more than embarassingly fail-filled protests...
references:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/knights-of-the-ku-klux-klan
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/imperial-klans-of-america
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/church-of-the-national-knights-of-the-ku-klux-klan
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/brotherhood-of-klans
concerning the NBPP:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/new-black-panther-party
There is nothing in this world funnier than a Klan apologist. Nothing.
My feelings, exactly.
It doesn't. But it's always lulzy if not horrormirthy to see the wafflers who go on and on about America bringing about the police state or some shit turn around and laud this approach for the greater good.
Oh, and there's a video of the "brutal robbery", you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
There Brown is,
paying for his cigars. (at 36 seconds)
Quote
Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.
Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.
How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.
In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.
The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.
In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."
So, Von, care to explain why it was a "brutal robbery"?
Not that it's really necessary, of course. Your standards for what constitutes a criminal are painfully obvious by this point.
Quote from: The Suu on August 20, 2014, 03:44:40 AM
It doesn't. But it's always lulzy if not horrormirthy to see the wafflers who go on and on about America bringing about the police state or some shit turn around and laud this approach for the greater good.
Yeah, but that joke has been done.
Pretty sure it was in Munich, in the 30s.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:46:24 AM
Oh, and there's a video of the "brutal robbery", you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
There Brown is, paying for his cigars. (at 36 seconds)
Quote
Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.
Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.
How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.
In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.
The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.
In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."
So, Von, care to explain why it was a "brutal robbery"?
Not that it's really necessary, of course. Your standards for what constitutes a criminal are painfully obvious by this point.
Where did Von go? He was just here a minute ago. :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:47:47 AM
Quote from: The Suu on August 20, 2014, 03:44:40 AM
It doesn't. But it's always lulzy if not horrormirthy to see the wafflers who go on and on about America bringing about the police state or some shit turn around and laud this approach for the greater good.
Yeah, but that joke has been done.
Pretty sure it was in Munich, in the 30s.
I always recall you saying something about "missing the punchline."
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:50:24 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:46:24 AM
Oh, and there's a video of the "brutal robbery", you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
There Brown is, paying for his cigars. (at 36 seconds)
Quote
Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.
Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.
How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.
In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.
The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.
In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."
So, Von, care to explain why it was a "brutal robbery"?
Not that it's really necessary, of course. Your standards for what constitutes a criminal are painfully obvious by this point.
Where did Von go? He was just here a minute ago. :lulz:
I went to work, thats where.
cant view the video on this phone. Give me around 16 hours, ill have a response by that point.
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 04:43:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:50:24 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:46:24 AM
Oh, and there's a video of the "brutal robbery", you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
There Brown is, paying for his cigars. (at 36 seconds)
Quote
Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.
Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.
How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.
In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.
The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.
In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."
So, Von, care to explain why it was a "brutal robbery"?
Not that it's really necessary, of course. Your standards for what constitutes a criminal are painfully obvious by this point.
Where did Von go? He was just here a minute ago. :lulz:
I went to work, thats where.
cant view the video on this phone. Give me around 16 hours, ill have a response by that point.
Spoiler alert. It shows the deceased acquiring cigars by legal means.
More of the same as soon as the sun went down. Saw a tweet that the Constitution doesn't seem to apply when it's dark.
Apparently media blackout was issued. Journalists forced into a press area and told if they do coverage alongside protesters they'll be arrested.
Still a few criminal instigators making it worse for everyone. Police chief and governor have been eerily quiet tonight too.
Oh, and a conflict of interest was discovered. The prosecutor on the brown case has FOUR family members on the Ferguson police force. Totally going to be a fair trial.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 05:25:06 AM
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 04:43:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:50:24 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:46:24 AM
Oh, and there's a video of the "brutal robbery", you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
There Brown is, paying for his cigars. (at 36 seconds)
Quote
Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.
Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.
How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.
In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.
The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.
In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."
So, Von, care to explain why it was a "brutal robbery"?
Not that it's really necessary, of course. Your standards for what constitutes a criminal are painfully obvious by this point.
Where did Von go? He was just here a minute ago. :lulz:
I went to work, thats where.
cant view the video on this phone. Give me around 16 hours, ill have a response by that point.
Spoiler alert. It shows the deceased acquiring cigars by legal means.
Huh, interdasting.
Ill be waiting for a video explaining how the shooting officer received a fractured eye then.
Concerning journalists:
although unfortunate, keeping them in press areas is good for their safety considering recent events such as msnbc correspondants being pelted with rocks, vice correspondants being pelted with bottles, and several miscellaneous blog-tier journalists getting robbed.
either way, im sure the window repair market in ferguson will be booming in the coming months.
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
More of the same as soon as the sun went down. Saw a tweet that the Constitution doesn't seem to apply when it's dark.
Apparently media blackout was issued. Journalists forced into a press area and told if they do coverage alongside protesters they'll be arrested.
Still a few criminal instigators making it worse for everyone. Police chief and governor have been eerily quiet tonight too.
Oh, and a conflict of interest was discovered. The prosecutor on the brown case has FOUR family members on the Ferguson police force. Totally going to be a fair trial.
Oh, why the fuck is it not a General court-martial?
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 05:48:22 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 05:25:06 AM
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 04:43:26 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:50:24 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 03:46:24 AM
Oh, and there's a video of the "brutal robbery", you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew
There Brown is, paying for his cigars. (at 36 seconds)
Quote
Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.
Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.
How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.
In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.
The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.
In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."
So, Von, care to explain why it was a "brutal robbery"?
Not that it's really necessary, of course. Your standards for what constitutes a criminal are painfully obvious by this point.
Where did Von go? He was just here a minute ago. :lulz:
I went to work, thats where.
cant view the video on this phone. Give me around 16 hours, ill have a response by that point.
Spoiler alert. It shows the deceased acquiring cigars by legal means.
Huh, interdasting.
Ill be waiting for a video explaining how the shooting officer received a fractured eye then.
Concerning journalists:
although unfortunate, keeping them in press areas is good for their safety considering recent events such as msnbc correspondants being pelted with rocks, vice correspondants being pelted with bottles, and several miscellaneous blog-tier journalists getting robbed.
either way, im sure the window repair market in ferguson will be booming in the coming months.
Yes citizen, why dont you keep to protest designated areas in the middle of nowhere and obey curfew? Why wont you let us "safety" you and your fellows? Why do you force me to pacify you?
So. Much. Dumb.
Quote>suspect refuses, goes nuts and starts making threats and pull a gun (suspect just elevated shit immensely)
That's still to be determined and I doubt it's as clear as that. Either way it's a radical escalation in force with questionable intent at best.
QuoteConcerning journalists:
although unfortunate, keeping them in press areas is good for their safety considering recent events such as msnbc correspondants being pelted with rocks, vice correspondants being pelted with bottles, and several miscellaneous blog-tier journalists getting robbed.
Journalists, like other adult humans are capable of making judgements about their own safety. This is why some go and sit with soldiers in war-zones and other interview the elderly in TV studios. Restricting the movement of a journalist implies there is something occurring that is A)newsworthy and B)negative for you/others in your group.
Let's be perfectly honest here, have you read Vice? If so, then throwing a brick at some of their writers is understandable.
Here's the thing, it makes no sense. Protesters aren't going to get better media coverage by attacking/intimidating/whatever journalists. So this could be a deliberate bout of idiocy, or perhaps, somewhat more likely, shit was being flung about and among those injured are a few journalists.
Finally, has anyone mentioned that these cops have shot another kid? Because they have. Hands up if you're surprised.
Anyone?
Anyone at all?
It sure seems like Ferguson cops don't care very much for cameras at all. They don't have dash cams like almost every other precinct in America, they don't want journalists going outside their little area, to the point of arresting one for taking pictures of the Free Press Zone from across the street. They seem to arrest anyone who points a camera at them outside the Journalist Corral.
I think these noble savages may be afraid the cameras will steal their soul.
I've wondered for a while about why cops aren't fitted with a personal camera as standard. It would surely save a lot of time and effort in situations exactly like this one. Many others too. The cost isn't even a conversation, if you can afford tanks and such, you can afford this.
If they have nothing to hide...
Personal camera(s), GPS that records their position at all times, heart rate monitor, etc. The whole shebang, to be worn at all times while on duty. Provided for free by the federal government through a contract with Apple or something!
Exactly. It's feasible, affordable and you'd probably get a competitive price with shit like Googleglass and Gopro in the mix.
Seriously, it would totally shut down shit like this. Police shooting? Here's the tape of the victim acting crazy and aggressive and showing the involved cop doing their job correctly. It allows for good officers to get recognition and immediately removes the dickheads on power trips.
I know, it's a bizarre concept thinking that cops should provide evidence beyond their (Obviously honest) word. There's countless court cases that stand and fall based on the arresting officers testimony. Removing the cop from this process surely allows for more on the street and also solves the problem of unreliable eyewitness testimony.
That's not to say that there's no problems at all with having cops covered in cameras, but I suspect it's vastly preferable to the situation we're currently seeing.
But surveilance of officers will impede their duty and put them at risk. :showus:
Indeed it will!
It will put them at risk of being held accountable for their actions by an impartial jury of their peers.
Which is, of course, unacceptable.
Laws are like sausages. Nobody wants to see how they are made. Even fewer want to see how they are enforced.
I mean, do you want to watch a bunch of white guys enforcing their sausages on people?
I didn't think so.
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 20, 2014, 12:17:06 PM
Laws are like sausages. Nobody wants to see how they are made. Even fewer want to see how they are enforced.
I mean, do you want to watch a bunch of white guys enforcing their sausages on people?
I didn't think so.
The porn industry is worth billions of dollars, so apparently there's quite a few people who are down with all kinds of sausage enforcing.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 20, 2014, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 20, 2014, 12:17:06 PM
Laws are like sausages. Nobody wants to see how they are made. Even fewer want to see how they are enforced.
I mean, do you want to watch a bunch of white guys enforcing their sausages on people?
I didn't think so.
The porn industry is worth billions of dollars, so apparently there's quite a few people who are down with all kinds of sausage enforcing.
I'm sure there are some Fox News viewers watching the police action with boners.
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 05:48:22 AM
although unfortunate, keeping them in press areas is good for their safety considering recent events such as msnbc correspondants being pelted with rocks, vice correspondants being pelted with bottles, and several miscellaneous blog-tier journalists getting robbed.
Von, do you seriously not see the problem with what you just said? I mean, leaving aside that the reporters were sought out in a McDonalds a wee bit later while they were eating their lunch and THEN arrested...And leaving aside the idea that no "first amendment zones" had been established, are you FOR REAL arguing for "first amendment zones"
for their own good?
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 05:48:22 AM
either way, im sure the window repair market in ferguson will be booming in the coming months.
Well, that's certainly the important part of this whole mess.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 20, 2014, 02:23:22 PM
Quote from: von on August 20, 2014, 05:48:22 AM
either way, im sure the window repair market in ferguson will be booming in the coming months.
Well, that's certainly the important part of this whole mess.
A good capitalist always tries to see how to make a buck in any situation. Von's just showing that entrepreneurial spirit that made this country great.
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 20, 2014, 12:17:06 PM
Laws are like sausages. Nobody wants to see how they are made. Even fewer want to see how they are enforced.
I mean, do you want to watch a bunch of white guys enforcing their sausages on people?
I didn't think so.
:lulz:
:potd:
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
Apparently media blackout was issued. Journalists forced into a press area and told if they do coverage alongside protesters they'll be arrested.
Oh, they did assemble press areas at some point? This makes me feel like my America™ is functioning as advertised.
QuoteOh, and a conflict of interest was discovered. The prosecutor on the brown case has FOUR family members on the Ferguson police force. Totally going to be a fair trial.
Fear not. I am sure Von will be along to explain why this is okay.
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
Oh, and a conflict of interest was discovered. The prosecutor on the brown case has FOUR family members on the Ferguson police force. Totally going to be a fair trial.
Here's the source:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/prosecutor-michael-brown-case-has-deep-family-ties-police-n183911
QuoteOverseeing possible charges in the shooting death of the unarmed teen falls on St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert P. McCulloch, a Missouri native whose police officer father was killed in the line of duty when McCulloch was 12.
McCulloch's mother, brother, uncle and cousin also worked for the St. Louis police department. Those close family ties to the police — and a bellwether decision 14 years ago not to prosecute two cops who shot and killed two suspects in a drug bust — have raised doubts about his objectivity in deciding whether Ferguson, Missouri, officer Darren Wilson should be prosecuted for the Aug. 9 killing of Brown, 18.
Pretty clear, but this von person seems like he's the latest incarnation of poptart though not nearly as thorough.
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 03:05:27 PM
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
Oh, and a conflict of interest was discovered. The prosecutor on the brown case has FOUR family members on the Ferguson police force. Totally going to be a fair trial.
Here's the source:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/prosecutor-michael-brown-case-has-deep-family-ties-police-n183911
QuoteOverseeing possible charges in the shooting death of the unarmed teen falls on St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert P. McCulloch, a Missouri native whose police officer father was killed in the line of duty when McCulloch was 12.
McCulloch's mother, brother, uncle and cousin also worked for the St. Louis police department. Those close family ties to the police — and a bellwether decision 14 years ago not to prosecute two cops who shot and killed two suspects in a drug bust — have raised doubts about his objectivity in deciding whether Ferguson, Missouri, officer Darren Wilson should be prosecuted for the Aug. 9 killing of Brown, 18.
Pretty clear, but this von person seems like he's the latest incarnation of poptart though not nearly as thorough.
He's a different guy who pops in and out time and again. The most notable thing about him is that he's a libertarian.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 20, 2014, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 03:05:27 PM
Quote from: Da6s on August 20, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
Oh, and a conflict of interest was discovered. The prosecutor on the brown case has FOUR family members on the Ferguson police force. Totally going to be a fair trial.
Here's the source:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/prosecutor-michael-brown-case-has-deep-family-ties-police-n183911
QuoteOverseeing possible charges in the shooting death of the unarmed teen falls on St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert P. McCulloch, a Missouri native whose police officer father was killed in the line of duty when McCulloch was 12.
McCulloch's mother, brother, uncle and cousin also worked for the St. Louis police department. Those close family ties to the police — and a bellwether decision 14 years ago not to prosecute two cops who shot and killed two suspects in a drug bust — have raised doubts about his objectivity in deciding whether Ferguson, Missouri, officer Darren Wilson should be prosecuted for the Aug. 9 killing of Brown, 18.
Pretty clear, but this von person seems like he's the latest incarnation of poptart though not nearly as thorough.
He's a different guy who pops in and out time and again. The most notable thing about him is that he's a libertarian.
So he's like 40% of the people who live here in the people's republic except a bit more racist and delusional. Got it.
Von, you racist delusional shit, I hope you die alone, in pain, in the dark. I would say I admire the balls you must have, championing Free Speech by yelling faggot at every opportunity and then turning around as soon as the press gets attacked by the police for daring to report on bad shit that's happening to brown people, but I don't. Fuck you and everything you've ever loved. I hope you get hit by seven buses and shot by the police for resisting arrest.
The press are the eyes and ears of 7+ billion people.
Limiting the freedom of the press is limiting the freedom of everyone.
This is not a difficult concept.
There are no good reasons to do so, if you think there are, name one and I will explain why your reasoning is wrong.
Iran can never resist a small twist of the knife:
QuoteKhamenei.ir @khamenei_ir
Follow
Today the world is a world of tyranny and lies. The flag of #HumanRights is borne by enemies of human rights w/US leading them! #Ferguson
7:37 PM - 15 Aug 2014
Edit: obviously this means the protestors in Ferguson are Iranian agents of influence and objectively anti-American.
Quote from: Cain on August 20, 2014, 07:56:31 PM
Iran can never resist a small twist of the knife:
QuoteKhamenei.ir @khamenei_ir
Follow
Today the world is a world of tyranny and lies. The flag of #HumanRights is borne by enemies of human rights w/US leading them! #Ferguson
7:37 PM - 15 Aug 2014
Edit: obviously this means the protestors in Ferguson are Iranian agents of influence and objectively anti-American.
Twitter amazes me in the fact that an inconsequential websites, whose premise sounds kind of dumb on paper, has changed the way little facets of the world work. Few years back he would have had to call a newspaper or hold a conference or something. Now he just sends a tweet and boom, widest dissemination.
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 20, 2014, 12:17:06 PM
Laws are like sausages. Nobody wants to see how they are made. Even fewer want to see how they are enforced.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
I don't know if you've heard about Officer Go Fuck Yourself who pointed his gun at protestors/media and said "I'm going to fucking kill you."
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ferguson-cop-points-gun-journalists-im-fing-kill-you/
Apparently his name is Ray Albers and he has already been suspended.
In refreshing and positive news, Republicans have jumped on the issue of requiring police to wear cameras:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385784/barack-obamas-good-idea-kevin-d-williamson
The comment thread was fairly good too.
Quote from: N E T on August 20, 2014, 11:35:36 PM
I don't know if you've heard about Officer Go Fuck Yourself who pointed his gun at protestors/media and said "I'm going to fucking kill you."
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ferguson-cop-points-gun-journalists-im-fing-kill-you/
Apparently his name is Ray Albers and he has already been suspended.
Menacing is a felony in most jurisdictions, punishable by prison time, steep fines, restitution, disenfranchisement...or a severe reprimand from your boss.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 12:43:17 AM
Quote from: N E T on August 20, 2014, 11:35:36 PM
I don't know if you've heard about Officer Go Fuck Yourself who pointed his gun at protestors/media and said "I'm going to fucking kill you."
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ferguson-cop-points-gun-journalists-im-fing-kill-you/
Apparently his name is Ray Albers and he has already been suspended.
Menacing is a felony in most jurisdictions, punishable by prison time, steep fines, restitution, disenfranchisement...or a severe reprimand from your boss.
You don't have out of control patrolmen if they have good leadership. It will be the reprimand.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 20, 2014, 04:13:42 PM
Von, you racist delusional shit, I hope you die alone, in pain, in the dark. I would say I admire the balls you must have, championing Free Speech by yelling faggot at every opportunity and then turning around as soon as the press gets attacked by the police for daring to report on bad shit that's happening to brown people, but I don't. Fuck you and everything you've ever loved. I hope you get hit by seven buses and shot by the police for resisting arrest.
And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers... :roll:
how about you 1v1 me IRL and not online and see what happen :lulz:
i mean really...all youve ever done to me is internet toughguy ragepost.
As for whoever said im the latest incarnation of...whatever. no, im a "main" account, not a troll alt or whatever.
I see this sort of thing said anytime someone disagrees with the general mentality of the hugbox here -- i think i was accused of being an alt when i called welfare addicts scum, and i think that faggot nihil got called an alt too until he got researched a bit.
what is it with this mentality? Does this shitty forum really have so many enemies that it has to assume anyone who doesnt agree is an infiltrator?
Thats pretty funny...
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 20, 2014, 04:13:42 PM
Von, you racist delusional shit, I hope you die alone, in pain, in the dark. I would say I admire the balls you must have, championing Free Speech by yelling faggot at every opportunity and then turning around as soon as the press gets attacked by the police for daring to report on bad shit that's happening to brown people, but I don't. Fuck you and everything you've ever loved. I hope you get hit by seven buses and shot by the police for resisting arrest.
And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers... :roll:
how about you 1v1 me IRL and not online and see what happen :lulz:
i mean really...all youve ever done to me is internet toughguy ragepost.
As for whoever said im the latest incarnation of...whatever. no, im a "main" account, not a troll alt or whatever.
I see this sort of thing said anytime someone disagrees with the general mentality of the hugbox here -- i think i was accused of being an alt when i called welfare addicts scum, and i think that faggot nihil got called an alt too until he got researched a bit.
what is it with this mentality? Does this shitty forum really have so many enemies that it has to assume anyone who doesnt agree is an infiltrator?
Thats pretty funny...
I sincerely hope that you mature some day.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
I was referring to your case in particular; but to be fair, we have made some enemies over the years.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
This, if anything, is deflection. One dude who hasn't seen you around before figured you a troll (ask yourself why).
I pointed out that you're notable for being a libertarian since the only times I've seen you discuss anything, it's been in line with what is expected of a libertarian. ie- there's little else that is apparent about you to draw on. You're also LGBT. Never knew that before.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 21, 2014, 03:57:55 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
This, if anything, is deflection. One dude who hasn't seen you around before figured you a troll (ask yourself why).
I pointed out that you're notable for being a libertarian since the only times I've seen you discuss anything, it's been in line with what is expected of a libertarian. ie- there's little else that is apparent about you to draw on. You're also LGBT. Never knew that before.
This is a fair assessment.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 20, 2014, 04:13:42 PM
Von, you racist delusional shit, I hope you die alone, in pain, in the dark. I would say I admire the balls you must have, championing Free Speech by yelling faggot at every opportunity and then turning around as soon as the press gets attacked by the police for daring to report on bad shit that's happening to brown people, but I don't. Fuck you and everything you've ever loved. I hope you get hit by seven buses and shot by the police for resisting arrest.
And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers... :roll:
how about you 1v1 me IRL and not online and see what happen :lulz:
i mean really...all youve ever done to me is internet toughguy ragepost.
As for whoever said im the latest incarnation of...whatever. no, im a "main" account, not a troll alt or whatever.
I see this sort of thing said anytime someone disagrees with the general mentality of the hugbox here -- i think i was accused of being an alt when i called welfare addicts scum, and i think that faggot nihil got called an alt too until he got researched a bit.
what is it with this mentality? Does this shitty forum really have so many enemies that it has to assume anyone who doesnt agree is an infiltrator?
Thats pretty funny...
Oh look, he dropped another "faggot." Look at how shocked I am. Such edgy.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 20, 2014, 04:13:42 PM
Von, you racist delusional shit, I hope you die alone, in pain, in the dark. I would say I admire the balls you must have, championing Free Speech by yelling faggot at every opportunity and then turning around as soon as the press gets attacked by the police for daring to report on bad shit that's happening to brown people, but I don't. Fuck you and everything you've ever loved. I hope you get hit by seven buses and shot by the police for resisting arrest.
And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers... :roll:
how about you 1v1 me IRL and not online and see what happen :lulz:
i mean really...all youve ever done to me is internet toughguy ragepost.
As for whoever said im the latest incarnation of...whatever. no, im a "main" account, not a troll alt or whatever.
I see this sort of thing said anytime someone disagrees with the general mentality of the hugbox here -- i think i was accused of being an alt when i called welfare addicts scum, and i think that faggot nihil got called an alt too until he got researched a bit.
what is it with this mentality? Does this shitty forum really have so many enemies that it has to assume anyone who doesnt agree is an infiltrator?
Thats pretty funny...
Do you have an actual developmental disorder, or are you just pretending to because you think it makes you look cool on the internet?
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 21, 2014, 04:08:02 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 20, 2014, 04:13:42 PM
Von, you racist delusional shit, I hope you die alone, in pain, in the dark. I would say I admire the balls you must have, championing Free Speech by yelling faggot at every opportunity and then turning around as soon as the press gets attacked by the police for daring to report on bad shit that's happening to brown people, but I don't. Fuck you and everything you've ever loved. I hope you get hit by seven buses and shot by the police for resisting arrest.
And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers... :roll:
how about you 1v1 me IRL and not online and see what happen :lulz:
i mean really...all youve ever done to me is internet toughguy ragepost.
As for whoever said im the latest incarnation of...whatever. no, im a "main" account, not a troll alt or whatever.
I see this sort of thing said anytime someone disagrees with the general mentality of the hugbox here -- i think i was accused of being an alt when i called welfare addicts scum, and i think that faggot nihil got called an alt too until he got researched a bit.
what is it with this mentality? Does this shitty forum really have so many enemies that it has to assume anyone who doesnt agree is an infiltrator?
Thats pretty funny...
Oh look, he dropped another "faggot." Look at how shocked I am. Such edgy.
glad to underwhelm you thusly
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
The board is paranoid, as a result of having several persistent trolls who come back over and over again under alts, and a number of people who have vowed to destroy us but have failed to do anything worse than be kinda annoying.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on August 21, 2014, 04:26:33 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
The board is paranoid, as a result of having several persistent trolls who come back over and over again under alts, and a number of people who have vowed to destroy us but have failed to do anything worse than be kinda annoying.
Specifically on the line of "vowed to destroy", im absolutely rolling, picturing someone who looks like mandark sitting in front of a computer just screaming into the wind
"Curse you peeeeeedeeeeeeee".
Anyway, im kinda fucking up a legit discussion about a real political event here, and thats just rude. If any admins are around, Is it possible to thread-split all of the bullshit related to me away so that the ferguson thing can acheive its proper amount of coverage without all of my shit cluttering the thread?
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 04:34:28 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on August 21, 2014, 04:26:33 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
The board is paranoid, as a result of having several persistent trolls who come back over and over again under alts, and a number of people who have vowed to destroy us but have failed to do anything worse than be kinda annoying.
Specifically on the line of "vowed to destroy", im absolutely rolling, picturing someone who looks like mandark sitting in front of a computer just screaming into the wind
"Curse you peeeeeedeeeeeeee".
Anyway, im kinda fucking up a legit discussion about a real political event here, and thats just rude. If any admins are around, Is it possible to thread-split all of the bullshit related to me away so that the ferguson thing can acheive its proper amount of coverage without all of my shit cluttering the thread?
That's the first reasonable thing you've said ITT.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 21, 2014, 04:40:20 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 04:34:28 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on August 21, 2014, 04:26:33 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
The board is paranoid, as a result of having several persistent trolls who come back over and over again under alts, and a number of people who have vowed to destroy us but have failed to do anything worse than be kinda annoying.
Specifically on the line of "vowed to destroy", im absolutely rolling, picturing someone who looks like mandark sitting in front of a computer just screaming into the wind
"Curse you peeeeeedeeeeeeee".
Anyway, im kinda fucking up a legit discussion about a real political event here, and thats just rude. If any admins are around, Is it possible to thread-split all of the bullshit related to me away so that the ferguson thing can acheive its proper amount of coverage without all of my shit cluttering the thread?
That's the first reasonable thing you've said ITT.
Its not like i hate PD and its inhabitants or anything, so yeah...when i threat about a topic turns into "fuck you von" and "no u!", id rather the shitposting go elsewhere. I mean, the nameless lurker whos reading this shit for news doesnt need to see meta discussions about how im an edgy racist who says faggot alot, oe how the community is paranoid of retarded shitbags who vow revenge on an internet forum that has like 10 regular users...
That would just be obstructionist...
Or being accused of being an alt etc....
It adds nothing to the discussion, even more so when it doesn't come from a mod who can at least run an IP check.
Von is just Von, his dumb opinions are his own. The topic is Ferguson, if needs be we can split the thread.
So disable
Much Von
Not brother
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 04:49:57 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 21, 2014, 04:40:20 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 04:34:28 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on August 21, 2014, 04:26:33 AM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:40:56 AM
I think it's more comforting for some people to believe you had to be a vicious troll, than someone with your mentality actually exists out there in real life.
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
I mean, yeah maybe i have some out there beliefs, but its a pretty regular occurance for me to see "huh, hes a [fascist/racist/non-left libertarian]? Must be [the ghost of trollmas past] using an alt".
It sounds like just a general case of paranoia...
The board is paranoid, as a result of having several persistent trolls who come back over and over again under alts, and a number of people who have vowed to destroy us but have failed to do anything worse than be kinda annoying.
Specifically on the line of "vowed to destroy", im absolutely rolling, picturing someone who looks like mandark sitting in front of a computer just screaming into the wind
"Curse you peeeeeedeeeeeeee".
Anyway, im kinda fucking up a legit discussion about a real political event here, and thats just rude. If any admins are around, Is it possible to thread-split all of the bullshit related to me away so that the ferguson thing can acheive its proper amount of coverage without all of my shit cluttering the thread?
That's the first reasonable thing you've said ITT.
Its not like i hate PD and its inhabitants or anything, so yeah...when i threat about a topic turns into "fuck you von" and "no u!", id rather the shitposting go elsewhere. I mean, the nameless lurker whos reading this shit for news doesnt need to see meta discussions about how im an edgy racist who says faggot alot, oe how the community is paranoid of retarded shitbags who vow revenge on an internet forum that has like 10 regular users...
That would just be obstructionist...
No, that's okay, there's only like, 10 regular users who would shit in your mouth given the opportunity IRL. I mean, you could vomit that amount feces and still be okay, right? FREE SPEECH FOR U unless it applies to "niggers" or the press.
It seems to me like you relish the opportunity to rub salt into people's wounds with your words as long as you're insulated from actually having any real world consequences for flippantly shitting on people who are still denied basic fucking access to housing, jobs, and civil fucking rights.
Pennysworth would wreck you. I will wreck you, all 150 pounds of skinny, shivering hell that I am.
Get hit by a train, you bag of invertebrate jelly. If you want to meet face to face to test my ass, post or message me a specific meet up location and time. I live in Fresno, CA and will gladly travel to give you your just deserts. Or just continue being a mouthy coward and see how that pans out for you.
Hope you have a reliable VPN, fuckstick.
It's going to be difficult for whoever decides to try to spilt the thread, since every post of Von's is peppered with both conversation relevant to the topic at hand, as well as ignorantly racist jive which has no place anywhere outside of David Duke's personal slash fic.
I'm no psychiatrist, but does it seem weird to you that von professes previous same-sex relationships, and yet chooses "faggot" as a pejoritive? There seems to be a lot of self-hate going on in his head.
Sorry von, you seem to have mistaken this board for /pol/. Though I'm not sure how, since most of us can type in complete sentences and don't think much of Ron Paul...
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2014, 01:05:12 PM
I'm no psychiatrist, but does it seem weird to you that von professes previous same-sex relationships, and yet chooses "faggot" as a pejoritive? There seems to be a lot of self-hate going on in his head.
I suspect it is simple shock value.
By the way, this is very fitting. (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=36761.msg1354468#msg1354468)
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
By the way, this is very fitting. (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=36761.msg1354468#msg1354468)
Indeed.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 12:53:17 PM
It's going to be difficult for whoever decides to try to spilt the thread, since every post of Von's is peppered with both conversation relevant to the topic at hand, as well as ignorantly racist jive which has no place anywhere outside of David Duke's personal slash fic.
From what I can see, the most obvious point in which the thread goes from "relevant discussion" to "derailed shitposting" is around page 8 where I called you a tremendous fucking faggot. At that point, most of the posts turn into arguments focused on myself rather than ferguson, with a few relevant posts interspersed, none of which come from me.
To address other things...
>I'm no psychiatrist, but does it seem weird to you that von professes previous same-sex relationships, and yet chooses "faggot" as a pejoritive? There seems to be a lot of self-hate going on in his head.
I chose faggot as a pejorative because it is and always has been a part of my lexicon as a term of derision. I'm sure a similar train of thought afflicts the people who've told me to go fuck myself -- I have a hard time believing that they veritably wish me to have sex with myself.
Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar...
>If you want to meet face to face to test my ass, post or message me a specific meet up location and time.
> I live in Fresno, CA and will gladly travel to give you your just deserts
I didn't know people were still stupid enough to resort to internet toughguyism and legitimately mean it.
Still, if you mean it, give me a time frame wherein which you are available (via PM, of course) -- be aware you'll be traversing a good 80% of the country on your way to me, so you may need a few days off and some capital in order to reach me.
Give me some times that are good for you, I'll check my schedule, confirm when we can have compatable times (note: I am most available friday and saturday) and meet you as needed.
in short, I will 1v1 you IRL...
You have an overly generous view of your earlier posts.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:39:01 AM
And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers... :roll:
:mullet:
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
Nope. In this case, it's just you. Screeching about "faggots" and "niggers", defending the klan, and basically being an all-American, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 02:03:33 PM
You have an overly generous view of your earlier posts.
I dunno, before that point on page 8, I was legitimately trying. Perhaps I presented views which seemed "misinformed" or otherwise clash with the majority worldview of this forum, but until that point on page 8, I was simply trying to add to political discussion. After that, it gets into 100% shitposting territory.
>And i hope you get brutally raped by 50 niggers...
she (I assume anyway), as I saw it, simply exploded on me with commentary that approached "navy seal pasta" tier meaninglessness of content. I was only returning the favour...
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
I dunno, before that point on page 8, I was legitimately trying.
Who cares? Once you started posting Murrika, you became irrelevant, and anything you had to say earlier got buried under the crap flowing out the back of you.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
I dunno, before that point on page 8, I was legitimately trying.
And that is the truly sad part.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:06:13 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
Nope. In this case, it's just you. Screeching about "faggots" and "niggers", defending the klan, and basically being an all-American, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.
I agree. I agree 100%.
I am a shithead, and that was my point: it was assumed that
I was someone else imitating a shithead just for the sake of annoying people.
As for defending the klan...I wasn't. My point was that the NBPP is just as bad as them. But screw it at this point...
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2014, 06:48:08 AM
Or being accused of being an alt etc....
It adds nothing to the discussion, even more so when it doesn't come from a mod who can at least run an IP check.
Von is just Von, his dumb opinions are his own. The topic is Ferguson, if needs be we can split the thread.
I think the posts have been dead-on. If nothing else, von has demonstrated how one side in the Ferguson thing occurred.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:06:13 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
Nope. In this case, it's just you. Screeching about "faggots" and "niggers", defending the klan, and basically being an all-American, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.
I agree. I agree 100%. I am a shithead, and that was my point: it was assumed that I was someone else imitating a shithead just for the sake of annoying people.
As for defending the klan...I wasn't. My point was that the NBPP is just as bad as them. But screw it at this point...
Your point is made, you are --undoubtedly-- the original shithead.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:06:13 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
Nope. In this case, it's just you. Screeching about "faggots" and "niggers", defending the klan, and basically being an all-American, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.
I agree. I agree 100%. I am a shithead, and that was my point: it was assumed that I was someone else imitating a shithead just for the sake of annoying people.
As for defending the klan...I wasn't. My point was that the NBPP is just as bad as them. But screw it at this point...
So why would you expect the opinion of a shithead to be taken seriously?
And saying "The OTHER side is just as bad as the people I am describing" IS a defense, as can be demonstrated by any debate between democratic & republican partisans.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
I dunno, before that point on page 8, I was legitimately trying.
Who cares? Once you started posting Murrika, you became irrelevant, and anything you had to say earlier got buried under the crap flowing out the back of you.
Well, what I'm saying is that, it would be (in my opinion anyway) best to split it from that point, because anywhere after that point, the thread becomes undeniably "von hates niggers" rather than "ferguson". From what I can see, everything before that point is just "detestable opinion" rather than pure, pointless shit.
Again, I'm considering site quality. Everything before page 8 is topic-related. Most of everything thereafter is von's a racist-related. I simply find it in bad taste to the lurkers who may give a fuck about ferguson more than they give a fuck about me.
Rare self insight... Is this some sort of turning point? Or are we two posts away from an Unlimited Von thread?
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
I dunno, before that point on page 8, I was legitimately trying.
Who cares? Once you started posting Murrika, you became irrelevant, and anything you had to say earlier got buried under the crap flowing out the back of you.
Well, what I'm saying is that, it would be (in my opinion anyway) best to split it from that point, because anywhere after that point, the thread becomes undeniably "von hates niggers" rather than "ferguson". From what I can see, everything before that point is just "detestable opinion" rather than pure, pointless shit.
I think your behavior has been very educational concerning Ferguson, and why that manner of thing can still happen.
QuoteAgain, I'm considering site quality. Everything before page 8 is topic-related. Most of everything thereafter is von's a racist-related. I simply find it in bad taste to the lurkers who may give a fuck about ferguson more than they give a fuck about me.
What lurkers?
von, this isn't about "nobody likes von". Hell, nobody much likes me on this board, either.
It's about your 1950s approach to social issues. It's not edgy, it's frankly disgusting.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:17:54 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:06:13 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
Thats a logical sounding deflection, but as i look through things more and more, i see it everywhere.
if someone pisses off PD's core users somehow, its mysticwick, totse, or the monster-of-the-week troll from last month "obviously" using an alt.
Nope. In this case, it's just you. Screeching about "faggots" and "niggers", defending the klan, and basically being an all-American, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.
I agree. I agree 100%. I am a shithead, and that was my point: it was assumed that I was someone else imitating a shithead just for the sake of annoying people.
As for defending the klan...I wasn't. My point was that the NBPP is just as bad as them. But screw it at this point...
So why would you expect the opinion of a shithead to be taken seriously?
And saying "The OTHER side is just as bad as the people I am describing" IS a defense, as can be demonstrated by any debate between democratic & republican partisans.
>So why would you expect the opinion of a shithead to be taken seriously?
Because content > publisher. If it were otherwise, ad hominim wouldn't be considered a logical fallacy. Hell, Palladin Press has published both the Principia Discordia and the works of Ragnar Bensson. Are palladin press books worth reading or not based on this fact?
>And saying "The OTHER side is just as bad as the people I am describing" IS a defense, as can be demonstrated by any debate between democratic & republican partisans.
Which is what I was trying to demonstrate in my posts concerning the klan and NBPP...I posted "neutral" sourced material on both (if the SPLC is biased, its certainly not biased in my favour) in order to show that the klan isn't what it was back during the civil rights era...
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 02:20:10 PM
Rare self insight... Is this some sort of turning point? Or are we two posts away from an Unlimited Von thread?
Go through my post history; "self insight" is something I come to after every big argument I'm in here.
Thesis-antithesis-synthesis. I come here with a broken thesis, knowing this board is diametrically opposed to my normal sources of information so that I can meet antithesis and form a synthesis somewhere in all of the shit slinging. Why do you think I'm so persistent here? Don't most assholes simply ragequit before this point?
>What lurkers?
Go check the forum stats at any given time of day. There are (from what I've seen) normally around 10x "guests" viewing the forums than there are registered users. I would assume these to be unregistered individuals interested in discordianism, yet who can't be assed to register.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:25:59 PM
Because content > publisher.
Not in every day communications. If you make yourself odious, people will simply turn off.
QuoteWhich is what I was trying to demonstrate in my posts concerning the klan and NBPP...I posted "neutral" sourced material on both (if the SPLC is biased, its certainly not biased in my favour) in order to show that the klan isn't what it was back during the civil rights era...
I'd believe that, except for the fact that you are a demonstrated racist.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:47:53 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:25:59 PM
Because content > publisher.
Not in every day communications. If you make yourself odious, people will simply turn off.
QuoteWhich is what I was trying to demonstrate in my posts concerning the klan and NBPP...I posted "neutral" sourced material on both (if the SPLC is biased, its certainly not biased in my favour) in order to show that the klan isn't what it was back during the civil rights era...
I'd believe that, except for the fact that you are a demonstrated racist.
This is where we'll have severe disconnect in communications styles then.
>everyday communications
For me, an everyday communication (online anyway) is one wherein which I am not tied down by identity to the point that I have to care what I said 5 seconds before. I can even argue against my previous position if I come to later insight that disproves it.
For me, the idea of "you have been determined a racist, thus your entire opinion of race-related issues is discounted" is senseless and counterproductive...
because identity becomes an issue in debate, it becomes difficult to actually progress an argument.
For instance, after reviewing (I think it was junkenstein's) mention of rotton bouroughs, I came to conclusions that "fuck, this could be more than I think", thus, I looked into cointelpro...
Now then, knowing the general facts about the KKK and the NBPP and how the state infiltrates ANY race baiting or revolutionary group -- it's obvious that they were infiltrated orgs in my mind, so I decided to post the notion that, since these two orgs were going to be in ferguson.
But I got called on it...not because I implied that potentially infiltrated groups were in the barrel now, but because I implied that a black group could be problematic -- something I feel was motivated by the fact that "von" is a racist who obviously hates black groups and is thus slandering them.
So it turned into an ego-defense battle rather than a "why is this wrong" battle...and then it decayed into shitposting.
No, I called you on it because they are not the same, despite what you seem to believe. I barely remembered who you were up until then.
And to address your point about both groups being infiltrated... even if that is true, so what? The government would have no reason to work against itself, so only one "infiltration" would be utilized.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:09:44 PM
No, I called you on it because they are not the same, despite what you seem to believe. I barely remembered who you were up until then.
Seriously on this:
How are the modern klans, who are largely incompetant shitbags who sit around online and occasionally fail at holding a rally, any different than the modern NBPP, which is a nation of islam inspired organisation that does literally the same sort of shit?
Seriously, what makes one better than the other, from a cited source? Because to me, they both look like racist shitheads...
EDIT: on infiltration.
I don't rightly understand why either. It was implied that similar riots had been started by violent cointelpro elements within peaceful protest movements before.
My general assumption would be that the state has a vested interest in demonising the legitimate protest movement by provoking them to violence such that they can be justified in arresting/killing protestors. I mean hell, why does the state put violent cointelpro into any protest movement?
It makes the populace think of them as "nothing but violent apes" and lose sympathy with them, which is happening in a lot of places...
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:12:12 PM
And to address your point about both groups being infiltrated... even if that is true, so what? The government would have no reason to work against itself, so only one "infiltration" would be utilized.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, on the "reason" or "utilization" part. Government isn't monolithic, depending on who is running what infiltration it's quite likely the left hand does not know, or especially care, what the right is doing.
And utilising both infiltrations could be useful...if, for example, you wanted two groups at each others throats, rather than concentrating on something worse. I can't see an FBI agent losing much sleep over a KKK-New Black Pather bustup, whoever came off worse.
Or, let's say the local KKK are being run by the local police intelligence unit. Local police are always closely tied into the power structure. Maybe a bit of the old ultraviolence and racial tension will improve someone's candidacy. We already know from this thread that one of the local judges has four relatives in the Ferguson PD. Get law enforcement, judges and a politician on the same side, and you have a pretty potent mix. Run on a law and order platform, the courts and police get more funding, the politician has friends in high places and everyone is a winner.
Well, except for black teenagers, but as we've been reminded, they are probably budding criminals
anyway, and so clearly aren't worth as much as white citizens.
Ok, I can see that.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:47:53 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 02:25:59 PM
Because content > publisher.
Not in every day communications. If you make yourself odious, people will simply turn off.
QuoteWhich is what I was trying to demonstrate in my posts concerning the klan and NBPP...I posted "neutral" sourced material on both (if the SPLC is biased, its certainly not biased in my favour) in order to show that the klan isn't what it was back during the civil rights era...
I'd believe that, except for the fact that you are a demonstrated racist.
This is where we'll have severe disconnect in communications styles then.
>everyday communications
For me, an everyday communication (online anyway) is one wherein which I am not tied down by identity to the point that I have to care what I said 5 seconds before. I can even argue against my previous position if I come to later insight that disproves it.
For me, the idea of "you have been determined a racist, thus your entire opinion of race-related issues is discounted" is senseless and counterproductive...
because identity becomes an issue in debate, it becomes difficult to actually progress an argument.
For instance, after reviewing (I think it was junkenstein's) mention of rotton bouroughs, I came to conclusions that "fuck, this could be more than I think", thus, I looked into cointelpro...
Now then, knowing the general facts about the KKK and the NBPP and how the state infiltrates ANY race baiting or revolutionary group -- it's obvious that they were infiltrated orgs in my mind, so I decided to post the notion that, since these two orgs were going to be in ferguson.
But I got called on it...not because I implied that potentially infiltrated groups were in the barrel now, but because I implied that a black group could be problematic -- something I feel was motivated by the fact that "von" is a racist who obviously hates black groups and is thus slandering them.
So it turned into an ego-defense battle rather than a "why is this wrong" battle...and then it decayed into shitposting.
If you are not getting your idea across, you are not communicating. The philosophy you are pursuing is irrelevant to this fact.
And it doesn't matter if you are actually a racist or not. You did a convincing imitation with a straight face, and that's really all it takes.
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 03:12:12 PM
And to address your point about both groups being infiltrated... even if that is true, so what? The government would have no reason to work against itself, so only one "infiltration" would be utilized.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, on the "reason" or "utilization" part. Government isn't monolithic, depending on who is running what infiltration it's quite likely the left hand does not know, or especially care, what the right is doing.
And utilising both infiltrations could be useful...if, for example, you wanted two groups at each others throats, rather than concentrating on something worse. I can't see an FBI agent losing much sleep over a KKK-New Black Pather bustup, whoever came off worse.
Or, let's say the local KKK are being run by the local police intelligence unit. Local police are always closely tied into the power structure. Maybe a bit of the old ultraviolence and racial tension will improve someone's candidacy. We already know from this thread that one of the local judges has four relatives in the Ferguson PD. Get law enforcement, judges and a politician on the same side, and you have a pretty potent mix. Run on a law and order platform, the courts and police get more funding, the politician has friends in high places and everyone is a winner.
Well, except for black teenagers, but as we've been reminded, they are probably budding criminals anyway, and so clearly aren't worth as much as white citizens.
Couldn't it perhaps be simpler and more direct?
>embed rad-com and NBPP elements into a crowd of protesters who are already hard pressed to seperate themselves from opportunistic criminals
>have the embedded elements promote violence
>have the KKK show up and start "protecting" businesses in the area
>have one group or the other do something outrageous and spark all-out pandemonium
>now you have a media picture of "wild apes killing in the street" to make the public lose sympathy
>you can now freely shoot, brutalise and detain "wild apes" whereas yesterday, it would have been hard to shoot "peaceful racial equality activists"
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:15:32 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2014, 06:48:08 AM
Or being accused of being an alt etc....
It adds nothing to the discussion, even more so when it doesn't come from a mod who can at least run an IP check.
Von is just Von, his dumb opinions are his own. The topic is Ferguson, if needs be we can split the thread.
I think the posts have been dead-on. If nothing else, von has demonstrated how one side in the Ferguson thing occurred.
Yeah, that's why I'm not willing to split out his posts unless da6 requests it, it looked more like von trying to hide his shame.
Von, learning to adapt to different social environments is part of human intelligence. It doesn't matter whether you came from an anonymous board where no one knows who you are or holds you accountable for things you said five minutes ago, you've been on this forum long enough that unless you have an actual disability you should be able to recognize that there is continuity, much as there is in face to face communication. Here, what you say IS who you are, because there is no other basis by which to assess you.
You could use this forum as an opportunity to grow up and learn skills that you can transport out into the real world, that will serve you well, or you can keep digging in and screeching like an angry little monkey or a kid having a tantrum at the grocery store. I know which option I'd recommend.
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2014, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 02:15:32 PM
Quote from: Faust on August 21, 2014, 06:48:08 AM
Or being accused of being an alt etc....
It adds nothing to the discussion, even more so when it doesn't come from a mod who can at least run an IP check.
Von is just Von, his dumb opinions are his own. The topic is Ferguson, if needs be we can split the thread.
I think the posts have been dead-on. If nothing else, von has demonstrated how one side in the Ferguson thing occurred.
Yeah, that's why I'm not willing to split out his posts unless da6 requests it, it looked more like von trying to hide his shame.
I don't care either way. I'll continue throwing worthy updates in here as Isee them. Looking like the ssituation has mostly stabilized though, vice has begun pulling some of its reporters out.
von: 80% of the country from Fresno puts you closer to me. If you're so itchy to prove yourself irl, pm me.
And to be perfectly clear on the subject, I come from the same culture where "faggot" means "person" and is used constantly. You'll notice I don't generally drop it around here, because I know how different social circles work and adapt accordingly. Also, I stand by your right to say offensive shit and deal with people getting offended, because free speech motherfucker. The minute you lost me was when you decided that free speech is EXCLUSIVELY about your right to be a shitheel, and refused to get mad about ACTUAL JOURNALISTS ACTUALLY GETTING ATTACKED FOR DOING JOURNALISM. You worthless fucking cunt.
Its a shame how the fine art of being an edgy fuckwad has deteriorated. "Kill all niggers" is so 2008. Cmon, step it up a notch. Argue for Anti-Natalism, or maybe Hard Green mass extermination of mankind. Get creative.
Unfortunately, we've already had the "11/12 of people should die" wander through, and that was, what, six years ago?
Was that the Lamanite, or was he another "civilization is useless" dude?
No, that was Bhode_Sativa. The Lamanite was "we should all be hunter-gatherers, the herds will migrate where they are needed" and "the BiP is racist".
Maybe Hard-Green Transhumanism? "I for one welcome our energy efficient Robot Overlords."
I don't think we've ever had any National Anarchists. Which is probably just as well, as I'd never stop laughing....
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on August 21, 2014, 06:40:31 PM
Maybe Hard-Green Transhumanism? "I for one welcome our energy efficient Robot Overlords."
You can't leave that there. Rife with potential.
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 06:29:35 PM
No, that was Bhode_Sativa. The Lamanite was "we should all be hunter-gatherers, the herds will migrate where they are needed" and "the BiP is racist".
I remember we were joking about that when we came up with the Latin translation of Black Iron Prison, and then, just as sure as Poe's Law...
Oh, dear. I hope none of you have pleasant memories of the 90's TV show
Hercules. Quote from the actor's FB page: (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226845/kevin-sorbo-pens-heartfelt-racist-diatribe-about-ferguson-on-facebook/)
QuoteFerguson riots have very little to do with the shooting of the young man. It is an excuse to be the losers these animals truly are. It is a tipping point to frustration built up over years of not trying, but blaming everyone else, The Man, for their failures. It's always someone else's fault when you give up. Hopefully this is a reminder to the African Americans ( I always thought we just Americans. Oh, well.) that their President the voted in has only made things worse for them, not better.
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
At least Young Hercules gave us Ryan Gosling.
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 06:29:35 PM
No, that was Bhode_Sativa. The Lamanite was "we should all be hunter-gatherers, the herds will migrate where they are needed" and "the BiP is racist".
Oh, yeah. Bhode. Mister "6.9 billion humans must die to save the dolphins, only not me."
:lulz:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2014, 07:26:59 PM
Oh, dear. I hope none of you have pleasant memories of the 90's TV show Hercules. Quote from the actor's FB page: (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226845/kevin-sorbo-pens-heartfelt-racist-diatribe-about-ferguson-on-facebook/)
QuoteFerguson riots have very little to do with the shooting of the young man. It is an excuse to be the losers these animals truly are. It is a tipping point to frustration built up over years of not trying, but blaming everyone else, The Man, for their failures. It's always someone else's fault when you give up. Hopefully this is a reminder to the African Americans ( I always thought we just Americans. Oh, well.) that their President the voted in has only made things worse for them, not better.
Awww, He's sowwy, kinda.
https://www.facebook.com/KevinSorbo
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 21, 2014, 07:38:47 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2014, 07:26:59 PM
Oh, dear. I hope none of you have pleasant memories of the 90's TV show Hercules. Quote from the actor's FB page: (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226845/kevin-sorbo-pens-heartfelt-racist-diatribe-about-ferguson-on-facebook/)
QuoteFerguson riots have very little to do with the shooting of the young man. It is an excuse to be the losers these animals truly are. It is a tipping point to frustration built up over years of not trying, but blaming everyone else, The Man, for their failures. It's always someone else's fault when you give up. Hopefully this is a reminder to the African Americans ( I always thought we just Americans. Oh, well.) that their President the voted in has only made things worse for them, not better.
Awww, He's sowwy, kinda.
https://www.facebook.com/KevinSorbo
Thing about situations like this, they are excellent filters for weeding out the arse biscuits.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
He was clearly pissed off about something before they even came along. Shouting shoot me now while running in a circle implies he wanted death by cop And I understand that they got scared, I would too if someone was waving their arms aggressively while approaching me but was using a gun really the only option?
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
I would say in a clear loud voice "NO". Ok maybe that's because I am a sadist, but more likely its because I am a damned pinko liberal european who finds your murrican gun culture repugnant. I am shocked, the fact that a guy like you N E T, whose opinion I have always respected even if I didn't agree can so blithely write it off as suicide by cop. WTF does that even mean in a country where being black seems to carry a suspended death sentence. Jesus Fuck America, you have hardly moved on race matters since, well EVAR.
Quote from: MMIX on August 21, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
I would say in a clear loud voice "NO". Ok maybe that's because I am a sadist, but more likely its because I am a damned pinko liberal european who finds your murrican gun culture repugnant. I am shocked, the fact that a guy like you N E T, whose opinion I have always respected even if I didn't agree can so blithely write it off as suicide by cop. WTF does that even mean in a country where being black seems to carry a suspended death sentence. Jesus Fuck America, you have hardly moved on race matters since, well EVAR.
Oh, but we have.
It's just that we had so far to climb, you see.
Quote from: MMIX on August 21, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
I would say in a clear loud voice "NO". Ok maybe that's because I am a sadist, but more likely its because I am a damned pinko liberal european who finds your murrican gun culture repugnant. I am shocked, the fact that a guy like you N E T, whose opinion I have always respected even if I didn't agree can so blithely write it off as suicide by cop. WTF does that even mean in a country where being black seems to carry a suspended death sentence. Jesus Fuck America, you have hardly moved on race matters since, well EVAR.
You can make me out to be some kind of callous monster if you'd like. But suicide by cop is a thing in the US, and it's perhaps the most fucked up way to kill oneself.
And the United States gun-cat is out of the bag. It's not going back in the bag. What do you think would happen if we tried to ban guns at this point?
11 gunshots just to incapacitate someone? Did he even have a knife?
Quote from: The Johnny on August 21, 2014, 09:31:09 PM
11 gunshots just to incapacitate someone? Did he even have a knife?
Yes, he did have a knife.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 09:28:27 PM
Quote from: MMIX on August 21, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
I would say in a clear loud voice "NO". Ok maybe that's because I am a sadist, but more likely its because I am a damned pinko liberal european who finds your murrican gun culture repugnant. I am shocked, the fact that a guy like you N E T, whose opinion I have always respected even if I didn't agree can so blithely write it off as suicide by cop. WTF does that even mean in a country where being black seems to carry a suspended death sentence. Jesus Fuck America, you have hardly moved on race matters since, well EVAR.
Oh, but we have.
It's just that we had so far to climb, you see.
Well said.
So I'll probably get flamed for this, but whatevs, just gonna throw it out there anyways.
I don't know what they teach cops, but back when I stood watches with a gun and they had to teach me how and when to use it, we were taught about the "deadly force triangle". I'm assuming cops have something similar. Basically, for you to use deadly force, three conditions must be met; capability, opportunity, and intent.
Capability is essentially just did the assailant have a weapon. In this case, yes, he had a knife.
Opportunity and intent are where it gets a little bit hazy.
Opportunity means that the assailant was within range of his weapon. This becomes difficult because there are a multitude of "what if" scenarios that could play out. What if assailant decides to make a mad dash towards you? What if assailant happens to be a knife-throwing champion and could easily take you out from 30 feet away? All of these things are supposed to be considered. I wouldn't say that the guy in the video was quite within range of a knife attack, but he was rapidly approaching that point.
Intent means that the person intends to use the weapon. This is another grey area because there isn't always a way to tell. Are they brandishing the knife threateningly? Are they verbally threatening? It's almost impossible to say. You can't tell from a cellphone video whether or not someone is intending to use a knife on someone, and nobody is a mind reader.
Then there's the whole thing about using another method to take down an assailant. This argument, I believe, has more credence than most other ones, but it's still hazy. Could they have stopped him with some other, more intermediate weapon? Perhaps. But also perhaps not, and here's why I think that is. Perhaps a taser would have been very effective. Problem is, not all police officers carry tasers, and in some areas they straight-up aren't allowed to. That being said, a taser probably would have been a much better approach, as the only problem you would usually run into with a taser is very large people sometimes aren't affected by them. Still would have been a nice idea.
Pepper spray could have been another option. I would hardly say that this is effective though. There is a small portion of the population that is immune to pepper spray all together. Also pretty much any kind of stimulant drugs can diminish the effects of pepper spray. On top of that, you can definitely fight through pepper spray if you are so inclined. We had to get pepper sprayed and complete an obstacle course, and it sucks, but you can do it fairly easily. It would probably be even easier to do if you were crazy hopped up on adrenaline.
Batons are pretty much no go in my opinion, as maybe you hit with a baton, maybe you don't and the assailant stabs you. It's not worth the risk.
The biggest problem I see with the way they handled the situation is getting out of the car with guns already drawn. That kind of escalates things, so it might have been better to wait until they had a better idea of the situation.
Of course, I'm not a cop, I wasn't there, and this is all just conjecture that I'm typing out from the safety of my computer.
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
Quote from: The Johnny on August 21, 2014, 09:31:09 PM
11 gunshots just to incapacitate someone? Did he even have a knife?
The last 10 were just to be sure, you see.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
Police are not trained to shoot to incapacitate.
Just like the zimmerman idiots, there's backers supporting the murdering cop. And they've already raised 127k+ for his defense.
http://www.gofundme.com/SupportOfficerWilson
Disgusting.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
That can be considered intent to maim, which would (ironically?) land you in hotter water than "proper" use of deadly force.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
Police are not trained to shoot to incapacitate.
That should probably change.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 21, 2014, 09:36:09 PM
The biggest problem I see with the way they handled the situation is getting out of the car with guns already drawn. That kind of escalates things, so it might have been better to wait until they had a better idea of the situation.
That's a good point.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
Police are not trained to shoot to incapacitate.
That should probably change.
We could maybe hire Roy Rogers. :lol:
Hitting anything with a pistol in an actual event is extremely difficult. You get tunnel vision, numbed extremities, etc. So you shoot center mass (ie, the chest). You try to hit an arm or a leg, you miss, and the bullet goes down the street looking to make new friends.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
Police are not trained to shoot to incapacitate.
That should probably change.
We could maybe hire Roy Rogers. :lol:
Hitting anything with a pistol in an actual event is extremely difficult. You get tunnel vision, numbed extremities, etc. So you shoot center mass (ie, the chest). You try to hit an arm or a leg, you miss, and the bullet goes down the street looking to make new friends.
Oh right... physics...
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
There's rubber bullets, but they sometimes kill too.
This is all ignoring the fact that single gunshot wounds are very survivable if you don't have eleven of them. Or a hundred. I can dig up the data if people want to see, but if you have a heartbeat when they take you to the ER and it's just bullets, you're probably surviving.
The key thing the officers here are not doing right is having the guns out in the first place. You shouldn't be waving guns around at protesters (see "protect and serve the shit outta you" image). If some guy's got a knife, there are multiple non-lethal options for dealing with the problem, including rubber bullets and other non lethal rounds which the officers should have been equipped with anyway, since they were going into a protest that had the potential to get confrontational.
Junky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-lethal_weapon
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 10:22:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
Police are not trained to shoot to incapacitate.
That should probably change.
We could maybe hire Roy Rogers. :lol:
Hitting anything with a pistol in an actual event is extremely difficult. You get tunnel vision, numbed extremities, etc. So you shoot center mass (ie, the chest). You try to hit an arm or a leg, you miss, and the bullet goes down the street looking to make new friends.
Oh right... physics...
The idea of "shoot to wound" also introduces a very dangerous mentality to someone who employs a firearm: that they can be used as a reliable less-lethal compliance tool rather than lethal force.
Even assuming you're some sort of model operator who can reliably hit someone in the leg or arm without it becoming a "liability shot" (i.e. hitting little billy who's 20 meters behind the target), it still has the potential to be fatal.
So you aim at his lower leg, but because it's a real scenario and not just a day at the range, you fuck your trigger pull up a little bit and it causes the shot to hit a foot higher than your point of aim. Congrats, your attempt at "just wounding" the target has turned into a case of his femoral artery blowing the fuck out, and now someone who you were trying to subdue with less-lethal force is now probably going to bleed out unless you immediately get your ass over there and apply a tourniquet.
so the idea of "shoot to wound" kinda gives the shooter this poisonous mentality of "oh, I can less-lethally shoot him for X-scenario where it would be totally wrong to lethally shoot him", when, come to find out, it could end lethally anyway just because...well, that's what guns are good at.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
Back up. Spread out. Adopt a non-threatening posture. And try like hell to communicate with that part of the dude that doesn't want to do this. THAT if I'm of the mind that lethal force (or any force) is the last god damn thing on earth that I want to employ. If, OTOH, I had been trained to assert my authority and stand my ground according to a formula of tit fot tat escalation, I would have done exactly what they did.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
Perhaps you missed our national fad with tasers?
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
About cop-cams:
they're pretty exploitable. Just consider
>suspect is a violent shit head who makes a bad example of himself and can be used to drive a narrative if need be
Camera comes out fine and is used as evidence, and mailed to every news org from here to the hinterland.
>cop acts inappropriately and brutalises a legitimately decent citizen
Camera is conveniently "damaged in the altercation" or the storage media suffers from some sort of "misfiling" issue.
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 11:00:51 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
About cop-cams:
they're pretty exploitable. Just consider
>suspect is a violent shit head who makes a bad example of himself and can be used to drive a narrative if need be
Camera comes out fine and is used as evidence, and mailed to every news org from here to the hinterland.
>cop acts inappropriately and brutalises a legitimately decent citizen
Camera is conveniently "damaged in the altercation" or the storage media suffers from some sort of "misfiling" issue.
Or we can just arrest anyone who takes a pic, right? :lulz:
Like your heroes in Ferguson.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: von on August 21, 2014, 11:00:51 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
About cop-cams:
they're pretty exploitable. Just consider
>suspect is a violent shit head who makes a bad example of himself and can be used to drive a narrative if need be
Camera comes out fine and is used as evidence, and mailed to every news org from here to the hinterland.
>cop acts inappropriately and brutalises a legitimately decent citizen
Camera is conveniently "damaged in the altercation" or the storage media suffers from some sort of "misfiling" issue.
Or we can just arrest anyone who takes a pic, right? :lulz:
Like your heroes in Ferguson.
Oh yes, exactly, and it would be far more stream lined too because cameras don't have civil rights...not even on paper. You can beat the shit out of a nikon and no one cares...sic dogs on it, burn it to death, misfile it (which we ALL know is just a big codeword for extraordinary rendition), and even torture it to make sure it never takes a picture again.
And the best thing: there wouldn't be some national association for the advancement of coloured photography to stop them.
They'll have every DSL-R in america in a fucking camp where they belong!
You know those funds to donate money to the cop who shot that kid. How hard/illegal would it be to set up a fake one that sends money directly into my booze fund? What if I didnt explicitly state that it was going to the cops. What if I just said it was going to "our great american heroes(which I am)" and plastered a bunch of pics of police brutality around a donate button. Only half joking about this, I havent had a drink in hours, getting pretty desperate.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on August 21, 2014, 11:12:16 PM
You know those funds to donate money to the cop who shot that kid. How hard/illegal would it be to set up a fake one that sends money directly into my booze fund? What if I didnt explicitly state that it was going to the cops. What if I just said it was going to "our great american heroes(which I am)" and plastered a bunch of pics of police brutality around a donate button. Only half joking about this, I havent had a drink in hours, getting pretty desperate.
check for competitors first because this is hardly an original idea.
crowdsource fraud has been a thing for a while now. an easier and more sustainable market is vapourware game development for remakes of cult classic games that have grey-area copyrights.
if you're smart about it, though, yes, it would be easy as fuck to capitalise on this...not particularly legal though, as it IS fraud...
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
Perhaps you missed our national fad with tasers?
Is that an ongoing thing? I was under the impression everyone was back to good old guns now. Pepper sprays for the liberal lot. Edit to add - Mainly under this impression as not seen many/any deaths reported of through such means. I remember a bunch a while ago so I guess they're either keeping it quiet or had just gone back to shooting people.
Cop cameras - You're all still thinking about currently existing tech. Add 5/10 years and a device that auto-records everything 360 degrees /X distance (increases as time passes) from you automatically uploaded and stored indefinitely. Damage and tampering can be made easily irrelevant, consider it as a police black box.
Von - I've re-read the thread and this appears to be your most valuable insight:
Quote
Do more of that.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 11:25:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 11:00:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
To derail a moment, where are we actually up to with less-lethal weapons? I'm guessing there's still nothing reliable enough to consider switching to yet, but surely that's got to be coming too?
I can understand that trying to shoot a limb isn't particularly practical in high stress situations, so that would seem to make less lethal alternatives even more compelling. Lawsuits are expensive, I'm told. It might just take a few forces going bankrupt before this is taken remotely seriously though.
Thing is, that changes the messages to and from the cop.
From the cop: I'm here to fuck your shit up, because it's non-lethal.
To the cop: Our go-to response is thump first.
Don't tase me, bro.
Just because it's non-lethal (I prefer "less-lethal", you can kill anyone with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined) doesn't mean you get to whip it out and hose down the whole street into compliance though. You still need to demonstrate you're using fair force for the situation at hand. I say "demonstrate", I mean "get away with". Thinking back, I seem to recall a discussion based around research that cops were more likely to fire a taser than a gun, and that seemed to extend to other shit like rubber bullets. It's an area of many issues and probably more relevant to another/new thread. Or remembering what the old one was.
There was something earlier about Republicans supporting camera on cops reforms, now I'm more certain than ever that the concept must have serious flaws I've not considered/realised/understood the full implications of.
Perhaps you missed our national fad with tasers?
Is that an ongoing thing? I was under the impression everyone was back to good old guns now. Pepper sprays for the liberal lot. Edit to add - Mainly under this impression as not seen many/any deaths reported of through such means. I remember a bunch a while ago so I guess they're either keeping it quiet or had just gone back to shooting people.
Cop cameras - You're all still thinking about currently existing tech. Add 5/10 years and a device that auto-records everything 360 degrees /X distance (increases as time passes) from you automatically uploaded and stored indefinitely. Damage and tampering can be made easily irrelevant, consider it as a police black box.
Von - I've re-read the thread and this appears to be your most valuable insight:
Quote
Do more of that.
http://t2.rbxcdn.com/5988e44ae3b90ce833bc210a7e14c9b2
besides, according to labour theory of value, that's the
least valuable contribution I've made -- it takes no labour to perform.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-the-police-kill-each-year/
QuoteEarlier this month, a police officer shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, Michael Brown, in Ferguson, Missouri. The shooting and the response have reignited concerns about racial profiling, police brutality and police militarization. The incident has also drawn attention to a remarkable lack of knowledge about a seemingly basic fact: how often people are killed by the police.
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 06:48:45 PM
I don't think we've ever had any National Anarchists. Which is probably just as well, as I'd never stop laughing....
Is that even a thing? If so, how is that possible?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2014, 06:57:26 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 06:29:35 PM
No, that was Bhode_Sativa. The Lamanite was "we should all be hunter-gatherers, the herds will migrate where they are needed" and "the BiP is racist".
I remember we were joking about that when we came up with the Latin translation of Black Iron Prison, and then, just as sure as Poe's Law...
Funny enough, there is a small nuance in Latin when it comes to the color black. Niger/nigra/nigrum implies a glossy or shiny kinda black, where ater/atra/atrum has a dull quality. The latter is where the word atrium comes from, apparently, since the walls might be a bit sooty. Or so I've been told.
Eta: both translations would be good. Niger for a metallic thing, ater, for a dreary type of thing. Hmmm... sorry going off in a thought tangent.
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 09:29:33 PM
Quote from: MMIX on August 21, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 21, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 21, 2014, 07:27:21 PM
And then THIS fucking thing:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/ (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cell-phone-video-emerges-refutes-st-louis-cops-version-shooting/)
Not exactly work safe. The full video of the other guy shot in St. Louis.
That was horrible. But it still looks like suicide by cop to me.
The cops account of the situation was exaggerated, but what would you do if someone walks toward you with a knife after saying "Shoot me, shoot me now"?
I would say in a clear loud voice "NO". Ok maybe that's because I am a sadist, but more likely its because I am a damned pinko liberal european who finds your murrican gun culture repugnant. I am shocked, the fact that a guy like you N E T, whose opinion I have always respected even if I didn't agree can so blithely write it off as suicide by cop. WTF does that even mean in a country where being black seems to carry a suspended death sentence. Jesus Fuck America, you have hardly moved on race matters since, well EVAR.
You can make me out to be some kind of callous monster if you'd like. But suicide by cop is a thing in the US, and it's perhaps the most fucked up way to kill oneself.
And the United States gun-cat is out of the bag. It's not going back in the bag. What do you think would happen if we tried to ban guns at this point?
I would also like to point out that guns are still useful to Americans. We still have predators, and quite a bit of area that is not urbanized. In fact, most of the US is not urbanized, it's just that the majority of Americans live in urban areas. I'm ambivalent about gun ownership, truth be told. It's your right in this country, and that right was written down not long after a violent revolution. At the same time, what the fuck do you need a gun for? Firearms laws and firearms positions aren't necessarily cut and dry here. I'd never own one, due to the pacifism and not needing to shoot mountain lions or deer. But the reasons for gun ownership aren't all redneck bullshit.
And Net is right. Suicide by cop is a legit thing here.
I can see owning a rifle... I don't understand why anyone needs an AK-47.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 21, 2014, 09:41:29 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
That can be considered intent to maim, which would (ironically?) land you in hotter water than "proper" use of deadly force.
Yes. The person you shoot could sue you.
My guitarist looked into firearms licensing and the instructor said, if you draw, it's no going back. If you draw the intent is to kill in self-defense, because if they live, even if you don't shoot them, the might sue you. Now, this is second if not third hand, but that's pretty fucked up. I'd just be happy the dude didn't shoot me.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 22, 2014, 04:03:40 AM
I can see owning a rifle... I don't understand why anyone needs an AK-47.
The argument there is that it's fun. I've never shot a firearm, but I've enjoyed medieval weapons. I think the mentality, more than anything else, is what needs to change. We have it in our heads that We The People NEED guns to fight off tyranny, which is lurking around at all times (and we totally didn't vote for anyway). Which is just stupid. The USA is the best armed and best funded military in the world. Your AK isn't doing shit for you against the NWO at that point.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 22, 2014, 04:03:40 AM
I can see owning a rifle... I don't understand why anyone needs an AK-47.
What about the AK platform is so not understandable? its a cheap rifle that can throw a deer adequate round and is also decent for varmint control and home defense.
perhaps it doesnt seem reasonable in an urban setting, but for removing coyote or habitat destroying dangerous invasive nuisances like feral pig: its ideal.
On a more arrogant note, i can gurantee youd find "rifles" in fudd calibers like .270 or .308 to be "not understandable" if there were to be a campaign to cast them as "dangerous hi powered sniper rifles".
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 22, 2014, 04:14:15 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 22, 2014, 04:03:40 AM
I can see owning a rifle... I don't understand why anyone needs an AK-47.
The argument there is that it's fun. I've never shot a firearm, but I've enjoyed medieval weapons. I think the mentality, more than anything else, is what needs to change. We have it in our heads that We The People NEED guns to fight off tyranny, which is lurking around at all times (and we totally didn't vote for anyway). Which is just stupid. The USA is the best armed and best funded military in the world. Your AK isn't doing shit for you against the NWO at that point.
The fun thing, I can see. When I was in Vegas they had ads all over for some ranch you could go shoot an AK... If had had more time, I certainly would have.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 22, 2014, 04:51:08 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 22, 2014, 04:14:15 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 22, 2014, 04:03:40 AM
I can see owning a rifle... I don't understand why anyone needs an AK-47.
The argument there is that it's fun. I've never shot a firearm, but I've enjoyed medieval weapons. I think the mentality, more than anything else, is what needs to change. We have it in our heads that We The People NEED guns to fight off tyranny, which is lurking around at all times (and we totally didn't vote for anyway). Which is just stupid. The USA is the best armed and best funded military in the world. Your AK isn't doing shit for you against the NWO at that point.
The fun thing, I can see. When I was in Vegas they had ads all over for some ranch you could go shoot an AK... If had had more time, I certainly would have.
One of my favorite things to do is shoot Borg while pretending to be an admiral on the computer machine. It fulfills the same purpose. Except maybe that visceral feel. I would go to a gun range , but I still honestly have no interest in owning projectile weapons.
Really what it is, is that there has only been one instance where our rights have been restricted by constitutional amendment, and that was Prohibition. We have the right to own guns since 1789 technological advancements be damned. So it really it's just on us as a people, as individuals, as institutions that we can't have nice things. Americans aren't responsible with guns. We all know this, but that's already a built in freedom, for better or for worse.
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 06:48:45 PM
I don't think we've ever had any National Anarchists. Which is probably just as well, as I'd never stop laughing....
This
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
I believe when you're taught to shoot, they generally teach you to aim for the central body mass, as bullet spread and recoil (and a bunch of other factors besides) can throw off what might otherwise be an on-target shot. A designated marksman or sniper
might be able to take such a shot, but they're generally not useful except in situations where the target is already limited to a small area and usually not presenting an immediate threat (think: bank robbery with hostages, for example). And even then a headshot is probably easier to carry off, given the size and limited movement in comparison with a limb.
Plus, even if they were shooting at the legs, it could still end up being a fatal shot. Break a bone, the leg collapses, the bone punctures an artery, the suspect stumbles forward and smashes their skull etc etc. Guns are generally not useful as nonlethal weapons.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on August 22, 2014, 03:41:46 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2014, 06:48:45 PM
I don't think we've ever had any National Anarchists. Which is probably just as well, as I'd never stop laughing....
Is that even a thing? If so, how is that possible?
Unfortunately yes. And by virtue of mashing the values fascists hate in with the state, basically. Which is a very convenient way to make anything into an anarchist philosophy, for budding theorists out there. The state supports dolphins, therefore I am a Pro-Human Anarchist. Etc etc.
Quote from: Cain on August 22, 2014, 08:39:03 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
Whatever happened to shooting to incapacitate? Wouldn't a bullet in the lower leg down most people, without killing them?
I believe when you're taught to shoot, they generally teach you to aim for the central body mass, as bullet spread and recoil (and a bunch of other factors besides) can throw off what might otherwise be an on-target shot. A designated marksman or sniper might be able to take such a shot, but they're generally not useful except in situations where the target is already limited to a small area and usually not presenting an immediate threat (think: bank robbery with hostages, for example). And even then a headshot is probably easier to carry off, given the size and limited movement in comparison with a limb.
Plus, even if they were shooting at the legs, it could still end up being a fatal shot. Break a bone, the leg collapses, the bone punctures an artery, the suspect stumbles forward and smashes their skull etc etc. Guns are generally not useful as nonlethal weapons.
Oh, they do teach you that in carry class, if you decide to apply to carry here in Oregon.
By which I mean, you can own and shoot a gun with zero training here, as long as you don't mean to open carry. I mean, it's Oregon!
Yeah, it's what I was taught when I did some firearms training with the Royal Engineers, so I expected it was a standard. Though the Royal Engineers generally don't rely on guns anyway, they have C4 all over the place and a practical approach to mixing chemicals. Guns are kinda frowned upon.
Fortunately for the rest of us, no country has yet legalised C4 either for self-defence or open carry.
Quote from: Cain on August 22, 2014, 08:55:13 AM
Yeah, it's what I was taught when I did some firearms training with the Royal Engineers, so I expected it was a standard. Though the Royal Engineers generally don't rely on guns anyway, they have C4 all over the place and a practical approach to mixing chemicals. Guns are kinda frowned upon.
Fortunately for the rest of us, no country has yet legalised C4 either for self-defence or open carry.
I kind of want somewhere to do that just to see what happens. Wasn't there a town in the US where it was compulsory to be be armed at all times? This is just the logical extension of that.
Quote from: Cain on August 22, 2014, 08:55:13 AM
Yeah, it's what I was taught when I did some firearms training with the Royal Engineers, so I expected it was a standard. Though the Royal Engineers generally don't rely on guns anyway, they have C4 all over the place and a practical approach to mixing chemicals. Guns are kinda frowned upon.
Fortunately for the rest of us, no country has yet legalised C4 either for self-defence or open carry.
Technically speaking, US self defense laws dont reference specific weapons...they reference "lethal force" and situations wherein which it is legal to use it.
C-4 and other high explosives can be legally possessed by obtaining a permit from the ATF and maintaining an explosives magazine that meets specific standards (and this isnt unreasonably expensive; the permit is $200 and a magazine can literally consist of a cinderblock outhouse surrounded by packed earth and set X number of yards away from a standing structure)
So, technically speaking, if you could ever find yourself in the rare circumstance that using an explosive would be practical for legal self defense, its not illegal by statute. A jury will probably find you guilty of using unreasonable force, but on the books, theres literally nothing wrong with explosives as self defense weapons.
Yes, it's Slate. Still interesting, though.
More than just the First Amendment being smashed in Ferguson. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/08/ferguson_s_constitutional_crisis_first_amendment_violations_are_only_part.html)
QuoteA number of superb articles detailing the dangers of suppressing speech and dissent have illuminated the problem of police crackdowns on the First Amendment. And this week the ACLU, NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law published a joint letter calling for the end of the curfew in Ferguson because it "suspends the constitutional right to assemble by punishing the misdeeds of the few through the theft of constitutionally protected rights of the many."
Far fewer articles describe the other constitutional violations taking place on the streets of Missouri, and those violations are every bit as urgent as the infringements on speech and assembly. We've seen very little coverage of the use of tear gas and rubber bullets as constitutional violations. But the due process clause bans the police from using excessive force even when they are within their rights to control a crowd or arrest a suspect. And tear gas is in a category all its own. Not only is unleashing it into a crowd an unconstitutional exercise of excessive force, but its use is banned by international law.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on August 21, 2014, 11:33:23 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-the-police-kill-each-year/
:teabagger1:
Quote from: von on August 22, 2014, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 22, 2014, 08:55:13 AM
Yeah, it's what I was taught when I did some firearms training with the Royal Engineers, so I expected it was a standard. Though the Royal Engineers generally don't rely on guns anyway, they have C4 all over the place and a practical approach to mixing chemicals. Guns are kinda frowned upon.
Fortunately for the rest of us, no country has yet legalised C4 either for self-defence or open carry.
Technically speaking, US self defense laws dont reference specific weapons...they reference "lethal force" and situations wherein which it is legal to use it.
C-4 and other high explosives can be legally possessed by obtaining a permit from the ATF and maintaining an explosives magazine that meets specific standards (and this isnt unreasonably expensive; the permit is $200 and a magazine can literally consist of a cinderblock outhouse surrounded by packed earth and set X number of yards away from a standing structure)
So, technically speaking, if you could ever find yourself in the rare circumstance that using an explosive would be practical for legal self defense, its not illegal by statute. A jury will probably find you guilty of using unreasonable force, but on the books, theres literally nothing wrong with explosives as self defense weapons.
They are specifically banned by federal law, and almost all states have additional laws concerning explosives being used on people.
What about flamethrowers?
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 22, 2014, 11:34:41 PM
What about flamethrowers?
I think they're considered "any other weapon" and are legal pretty much anywhere but California and a few other states.
Fun fact, a hand-cranked gatling gun is technically semi-automatic, and doesn't require any special permits to own.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 22, 2014, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 22, 2014, 11:34:41 PM
What about flamethrowers?
I think they're considered "any other weapon" and are legal pretty much anywhere but California and a few other states.
Fun fact, a hand-cranked gatling gun is technically semi-automatic, and doesn't require any special permits to own.
MA is probably one of those states. I think nunchaku are technically illegal here.
Flamethrowers as biological warfare are supposedly banned practices.
Californians just would not keep their nozzles clean.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 22, 2014, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 22, 2014, 11:34:41 PM
What about flamethrowers?
I think they're considered "any other weapon" and are legal pretty much anywhere but California and a few other states.
Fun fact, a hand-cranked gatling gun is technically semi-automatic, and doesn't require any special permits to own.
Not legal in Arizona, so probably not legal anywhere. My state is insane.
I'm a little surprised at that. One of those small kitchen flamethrowers would be easy to conceal-carry on a person, which I would've thought is the only reason Arizona wouldn't allow flamethrowers in the first place - not out of concern for safety, but because they're cumbersome.
Then again, being out of the shade in most of the state probably has the same overall effect as a kitchen flamethrower, so they might have taken that into account.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 22, 2014, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 22, 2014, 11:34:41 PM
What about flamethrowers?
I think they're considered "any other weapon" and are legal pretty much anywhere but California and a few other states.
Fun fact, a hand-cranked gatling gun is technically semi-automatic, and doesn't require any special permits to own.
They're not Any other Weapons. AoWs are defined right off the bat as being able to discharge a shot through the energy of an explosive...flamethrowers don't do this, thus they aren't regulated as AoWs.
They're 100% unregulated at the federal level...as they should be: I mean really, regulating them makes about as much sense as regulating chainsaws or machetes. They're agricultural tools.
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2014, 08:01:27 AM
I'm a little surprised at that. One of those small kitchen flamethrowers would be easy to conceal-carry on a person, which I would've thought is the only reason Arizona wouldn't allow flamethrowers in the first place - not out of concern for safety, but because they're cumbersome.
Then again, being out of the shade in most of the state probably has the same overall effect as a kitchen flamethrower, so they might have taken that into account.
Well, arizona (and cali, the other state I know of that's banned them) is a state with an arid climate, and flame throwers are largely used as defoliants in the US.
Wouldn't it make sense to ban something that could start a wild fire in such an arid climate?
No, because that implies Arizona's politics make sense.
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2014, 08:25:03 AM
No, because that implies Arizona's politics make sense.
that's a whole nother can a worms right there...
still, something about broken clocks being right at least once during the day.
The cop that shoved Don Lemon has been suspended, but not because of that. Because of a video of a speech he made at an Oathkeepers' meeting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/dan-page-st-louis-police-officer_n_5702000.html
You mean the Oathkeepers sworn to protect America from tyrannical government? :lol:
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2014, 01:29:19 PM
You mean the Oathkeepers sworn to protect America from tyrannical government? :lol:
That group (and radical constitutionalists) irks my nerves like fuck.
They claim to be about upholding enlistment oaths, ostensibly by resisting the federal government.
But in the text of the enlistment oath, it specifically states that one is to follow the orders of the president and all officers appointed above oneself...
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2014, 01:29:19 PM
You mean the Oathkeepers sworn to protect America from tyrannical government? :lol:
To be fair, the Qathkeepers do seem to be distancing themselves from this guy.
Yeah, but is that because he's a dickweed, or because he's bad press? I somehow suspect if this hadn't been made public, they'd do fuck all.
Just for comparison, check out the response of most militias to Bundy Ranch, and compare with the response to Ferguson. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what their concern in all this is.
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2014, 01:29:19 PM
You mean the Oathkeepers sworn to protect America from tyrannical government? :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The Female/Sodomite army will DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
DESTROY US ALL!
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9KGfgg-d8s)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 21, 2014, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on August 21, 2014, 07:38:47 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 21, 2014, 07:26:59 PM
Oh, dear. I hope none of you have pleasant memories of the 90's TV show Hercules. Quote from the actor's FB page: (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226845/kevin-sorbo-pens-heartfelt-racist-diatribe-about-ferguson-on-facebook/)
QuoteFerguson riots have very little to do with the shooting of the young man. It is an excuse to be the losers these animals truly are. It is a tipping point to frustration built up over years of not trying, but blaming everyone else, The Man, for their failures. It's always someone else's fault when you give up. Hopefully this is a reminder to the African Americans ( I always thought we just Americans. Oh, well.) that their President the voted in has only made things worse for them, not better.
Awww, He's sowwy, kinda.
https://www.facebook.com/KevinSorbo
Thing about situations like this, they are excellent filters for weeding out the arse biscuits.
We're not angry at you Kevin, just very
Disappointed!!!
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2014, 08:25:03 AM
No, because that implies Arizona's politics make sense.
That is the one issue we don't fuck around with.
I know intellectually that this should bother me. But, it really doesn't. I don't really care about anyone I don't have an interest or business association with getting killed. Ya, the police fucked up. Oops. So what. Sorry about your bad luck, I guess.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:09:58 PM
I know intellectually that this should bother me. But, it really doesn't. I don't really care about anyone I don't have an interest or business association with getting killed. Ya, the police fucked up. Oops. So what. Sorry about your bad luck, I guess.
Well, that was certainly a response worthy of The New America™. :lulz: <--- not laughing
with you.
Does it really bother you? If so why?
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:16:01 PM
Does it really bother you? If so why?
Because I am not a sociopath?
So, you think I'm a sociopath? Why?
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:23:07 PM
So, you think I'm a sociopath? Why?
Because you have utterly failed at the very basic requirement of being a person...IE, to give a shit about other people. Even chimpanzees and bonobos can do that. That's leaving aside the idea that the same shit can happen to you.
That meets the clinical definition sure. Am I sorry it happened, I really have no response to that. It is unfortunate he will never have the chance to contribute anything, but it is difficult for me to mourn an idea that has no chance of bearing fruit. As to it being possible that it will happen to me, of course it could. Any dip shit with a gun could shoot me. These things happen. People die, it's what we do.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:43:41 PM
That meets the clinical definition sure.
What other definition would I use?
In any case, this is giving me a rash. You have fun, now.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:43:41 PM
That meets the clinical definition sure. Am I sorry it happened, I really have no response to that. It is unfortunate he will never have the chance to contribute anything, but it is difficult for me to mourn an idea that has no chance of bearing fruit. As to it being possible that it will happen to me, of course it could. Any dip shit with a gun could shoot me. These things happen. People die, it's what we do.
What idea "that has no chance of bearing fruit" do you find it difficult to mourn?
Anything that he may have done. A family, an upstanding member of society, a college education, whatever. Any good thing he ever may have done is now simply a non issue. I understand the possibility that is wasted, but it is wasted. So why bother getting upset over what is not?
Wow. Just when you thought the dumb was over.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:43:41 PM
That meets the clinical definition sure. Am I sorry it happened, I really have no response to that. It is unfortunate he will never have the chance to contribute anything, but it is difficult for me to mourn an idea that has no chance of bearing fruit. As to it being possible that it will happen to me, of course it could. Any dip shit with a gun could shoot me. These things happen. People die, it's what we do.
Are you actually a crazy person? You see, you sound like a racist shitneck undergoing some kind of meth induced disassociation.
I may be being harsh. You are, of course entitled to such views. Just don't expect anyone to give much of a shit when anything bad happens to you. Which it invariably will, as you seem to be a fucking moron.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:12:21 PM
Anything that he may have done. A family, an upstanding member of society, a college education, whatever. Any good thing he ever may have done is now simply a non issue. I understand the possibility that is wasted, but it is wasted. So why bother getting upset over what is not?
Oh, I see. You're edgy and cool.
I assume you wouldn't be at all bothered by the murder of anyone you know, or yourself? Because it's all moot after the fact, right?
Racist? Edgy and cool? No, not at all. Of course I would be upset, but does that change the fact that I or someone I love would be dead? No, it wouldn't.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:22:18 PM
Racist? Edgy and cool? No, not at all. Of course I would be upset, but does that change the fact that I or someone I love would be dead? No, it wouldn't.
Nihilism: The sport of teenagers worldwide. :lulz:
Hey man, I can totally care less about all this than you.
It shows how mature I am.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 26, 2014, 09:26:45 PM
Hey man, I can totally care less about all this than you.
It shows how mature I am.
Give me that ukelele.
I CARE LESS. THERE ARE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF FUCKS I DON'T GIVE.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:22:18 PM
Racist? Edgy and cool? No, not at all. Of course I would be upset, but does that change the fact that I or someone I love would be dead? No, it wouldn't.
So just meth induced disassociation then?
Does the word "Empathy" mean anything to you?
QuoteI CARE LESS. THERE ARE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF FUCKS I DON'T GIVE.
OH, LET US COUNT THE FUCKS WE DON'T GIVE.
FUCK THE FIRST, NOT GIVEN OVER DEAD PEOPLE
FUCK THE SECOND, NOT GIVEN OVER WASTED POSSIBILITIES
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:12:21 PM
Anything that he may have done. A family, an upstanding member of society, a college education, whatever. Any good thing he ever may have done is now simply a non issue. I understand the possibility that is wasted, but it is wasted. So why bother getting upset over what is not?
Getting upset over police killing unarmed people and having zero accountability for doing so is long over due. You miss the point in a very disgusting way.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:22:18 PM
Racist? Edgy and cool? No, not at all. Of course I would be upset, but does that change the fact that I or someone I love would be dead? No, it wouldn't.
How pragmatic of you. Why are you here?
I was hoping to have a discussion without being called a: racist a sociopath or a nihilist; I thought that discordians would at least offer a new perspective without resorting to name calling. Clearly, I was mistaken.
Perhaps if you didn't present yourself as a racist, psychotic nihilist you would have had a warmer welcome.
If you're looking for a perspective that supports your current views and opinions, do fuck right off.
20+ pages of thread
"I don't care about this"
-Bad reactions
"Why are you being mean?"
This is a special kind of dumb.
I never made any racist comments. I never said I don't believe in anything. I never argued that killing is justified.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 26, 2014, 09:44:01 PM
20+ pages of thread
"I don't care about this"
-Bad reactions
"Why are you being mean?"
This is a special kind of dumb.
Yep.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
I was hoping to have a discussion without being called a: racist a sociopath or a nihilist; I thought that discordians would at least offer a new perspective without resorting to name calling. Clearly, I was mistaken.
:lulz:
Oh, you're looking for Really Real Discordians™, go join The Discordian Society on facebook.
We're all fake discordians here.
Quote from: N E T on August 26, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
We're all fake discordians here.
No, you're not. You're the usual suspects. I apologize for assuming you were exactly what I hoped you weren't.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
I was hoping to have a discussion without being called a: racist a sociopath or a nihilist; I thought that discordians would at least offer a new perspective without resorting to name calling. Clearly, I was mistaken.
I take it you get this reaction no matter where you go.
Perhaps you may be able to infer something about the beautiful snowflake that is your self.
*holding breath*
*holding breath*
*wheeze*
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:07:02 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 26, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
We're all fake discordians here.
No, you're not. You're the usual suspects. I apologize for assuming you were exactly what I hoped you weren't.
Now THERE'S a familiar tune.
QuoteI never made any racist comments
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:09:58 PM
I know intellectually that this should bother me. But, it really doesn't. I don't really care about anyone I don't have an interest or business association with getting killed. Ya, the police fucked up. Oops. So what. Sorry about your bad luck, I guess.
You saw the part where race was kind of a key point in this whole thing? There's 22 pages and it's got to be mentioned in some form on every single one. How can this then not be interpreted as a rather racist thing to say? Did you just see the thread title and think "I need to say something stupid here, but what? What, is the DUMBEST thing I could say about this as a way of introducing myself?"
QuoteI never said I don't believe in anything
QuoteI understand the possibility that is wasted, but it is wasted. So why bother getting upset over what is not?
QuoteI never argued that killing is justified.
QuoteYa, the police fucked up. Oops. So what. Sorry about your bad luck
QuoteDoes the word "Empathy" mean anything to you?
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:07:02 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 26, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
We're all fake discordians here.
No, you're not. You're the usual suspects. I apologize for assuming you were exactly what I hoped you weren't.
I am sure we are all delighted to disappoint you.
Kindly fuck off and evaluate your life now.
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
I agree, so why is this instance so important? Why this one? This type of thing has been happening my whole life. Is this the straw? I doubt it. People will forget this in a few weeks and nothing will change.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
I agree, so why is this instance so important? Why this one? This type of thing has been happening my whole life. Is this the straw? I doubt it. People will forget this in a few weeks and nothing will change.
Sure, The People will forget.
Why are you so eaget to embrace apathy like that slack jawed horde?
I don't know if it's eagerness so much as overwhelmed. It bothers me that I have this mentality, but logically....I don't see a manageable alternative. How do you square knowing better with the facts?
You create a manageable alternative. Everyone else being shitty is no excuse for being shitty yourself.
It has been made clear to me, through careful spiritual analysis, that Discrodianism is the religion of being overwhelmed.
All I know is I keep trying to do all kinds of shit that no sensible person would do, given the odds.
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:44:02 PM
All I know is I keep trying to do all kinds of shit that no sensible person would do, given the odds.
That makes sense.
Oh, and fuck you jokenstein. I'll keep asking questions. Dickbag.
Quote
Oh, and fuck you jokenstein. I'll keep asking questions. Dickbag.
:spag:
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
I was hoping to have a discussion without being called a: racist a sociopath or a nihilist; I thought that discordians would at least offer a new perspective without resorting to name calling. Clearly, I was mistaken.
>I thought that discordians would at least offer a new perspective without resorting to name calling.
why would you think this? its a 50+ year old religion that's essentially built on pop-philosophy "can't know nothin'; the map is not the territory" trope-y bullshit + that RAW dullard's take on neo-freudianism and self-reconditioning.
Why the fuck would discordians, a group that is founded on ideas so old that they're becoming mainstream, have a "new perspective" moreso than any other group of people?
As for name calling: they're human. just because they read and write books on new leftism doesn't mean they're any more or less immune to digging in and slinging shit at any idea that they don't like...
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 09:35:56 PM
I was hoping to have a discussion without being called a: racist a sociopath or a nihilist; I thought that discordians would at least offer a new perspective without resorting to name calling. Clearly, I was mistaken.
We're really awful excuses for Discordians. :lulz:
TGRR,
Doesn't respond well to shaming anymore.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:44:02 PM
All I know is I keep trying to do all kinds of shit that no sensible person would do, given the odds.
That makes sense.
Oh, and fuck you jokenstein. I'll keep asking questions. Dickbag.
:lord:
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
I agree, so why is this instance so important? Why this one? This type of thing has been happening my whole life. Is this the straw? I doubt it. People will forget this in a few weeks and nothing will change.
It isn't. Michael Brown was just another biological unit, meant nothing, just as you and I mean nothing. Nothing means anything, nobody counts, life is a rather nasty chemical burp, etc, etc.
Like I said: Nihilism. You have no sense of outrage. You may as well say "fuck it" and drink shitty beer and watch NASCAR. Because you know those faceless masses out there? The vast collection of Honey Boo Boos and teabagger yahoos that everyone likes to make fun of?
You just proclaimed your membership in their tribe.
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:24:26 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
I agree, so why is this instance so important? Why this one? This type of thing has been happening my whole life. Is this the straw? I doubt it. People will forget this in a few weeks and nothing will change.
Sure, The People will forget.
Why are you so eaget to embrace apathy like that slack jawed horde?
It's worse than that. He's doing it
consciously. Deliberately.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:07:02 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 26, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
We're all fake discordians here.
No, you're not. You're the usual suspects. I apologize for assuming you were exactly what I hoped you weren't.
<--- Door's over there, assclown. We're not the sooper ancient mystics you were expecting, and you're not the human being we were hoping for. Ta ta.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2014, 11:37:20 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
I agree, so why is this instance so important? Why this one? This type of thing has been happening my whole life. Is this the straw? I doubt it. People will forget this in a few weeks and nothing will change.
It isn't. Michael Brown was just another biological unit, meant nothing, just as you and I mean nothing. Nothing means anything, nobody counts, life is a rather nasty chemical burp, etc, etc.
Like I said: Nihilism. You have no sense of outrage. You may as well say "fuck it" and drink shitty beer and watch NASCAR. Because you know those faceless masses out there? The vast collection of Honey Boo Boos and teabagger yahoos that everyone likes to make fun of?
You just proclaimed your membership in their tribe.
Woah woah woah. You say what you want about nihilism and NASCAR, but leave shitty beer out of this.
Quote from: Raz Tech on August 26, 2014, 11:53:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2014, 11:37:20 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
We are the sort of Discordians that think that if cops wantonly kill whomever they please with no consequences they might, one day very soon, do so to any of us at any point.
Which, I guess, is what is happening.
I agree, so why is this instance so important? Why this one? This type of thing has been happening my whole life. Is this the straw? I doubt it. People will forget this in a few weeks and nothing will change.
It isn't. Michael Brown was just another biological unit, meant nothing, just as you and I mean nothing. Nothing means anything, nobody counts, life is a rather nasty chemical burp, etc, etc.
Like I said: Nihilism. You have no sense of outrage. You may as well say "fuck it" and drink shitty beer and watch NASCAR. Because you know those faceless masses out there? The vast collection of Honey Boo Boos and teabagger yahoos that everyone likes to make fun of?
You just proclaimed your membership in their tribe.
Woah woah woah. You say what you want about nihilism and NASCAR, but leave shitty beer out of this.
Nihilism makes sense if you live in a post-apocalypse wasteland.
There is no excuse for shitty beer.
How have you been, little billy?
Quote from: Malcolm on August 27, 2014, 12:18:58 AM
How have you been, little billy?
CALLED IT.
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:09:40 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:07:02 PM
Quote from: N E T on August 26, 2014, 10:02:18 PM
We're all fake discordians here.
No, you're not. You're the usual suspects. I apologize for assuming you were exactly what I hoped you weren't.
Now THERE'S a familiar tune.
Quote from: Alty on August 27, 2014, 12:20:40 AM
Quote from: Malcolm on August 27, 2014, 12:18:58 AM
How have you been, little billy?
CALLED IT.
.
Oh, yeah, Malcolm is from Mysticwicks, he's never pretended differently. I was Little Billy there.
But I don't remember him being like this.
Eh, drinkin beers. Got bored wondered what the discordians were on about these days. Missed you a bit. Nostalgia and all.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 27, 2014, 12:25:38 AM
Eh, drinkin beers. Got bored wondered what the discordians were on about these days. Missed you a bit. Nostalgia and all.
Well, we sorta went the way of MW, as all forums eventually do. Everyone gets sick of everyone's face, huge fights, all that shit.
But ECH never shamed himself like Mol did, which is something.
Mol, last thing I read by him was some kind if apology attempting to justify scotch, flashing kids and something about polyamory. Cause y'know...Crowley or something.
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 26, 2014, 10:44:02 PM
All I know is I keep trying to do all kinds of shit that no sensible person would do, given the odds.
That makes sense.
Oh, and fuck you jokenstein. I'll keep asking questions. Dickbag.
Junkenstein is right, and you are a shitfence. The end.
:lulz:
Quote from: Malcolm on August 26, 2014, 08:09:58 PM
Ya, the police fucked up. Oops. So what. Sorry about your bad luck, I guess.
Quote from: http://weeklysift.com/2014/08/25/what-your-fox-watching-uncle-doesnt-get-about-ferguson/But there has been a much more subtle, harder-to-compensate-for difference in the way each network answers the fundamental question: What are the demonstrations in Ferguson all about?
On Fox, the answer to that question is very simple. Demonstrators in Ferguson are reacting angrily to a single, one-of-a-kind event: White police officer Darren Wilson shot and killed an unarmed black 18-year-old, Michael Brown. That restricted context drives the rest of their narrative.
[...]
Slate's Jamelle Bouie did what Fox reporters (or most individual whites) hardly ever do: ask the black community what they're concerned about and listen to their answers.
QuoteTalk to anyone in Ferguson and you'll hear a story about the police. ... Everyone—or at least, every black person—can recall an incident. Everyone can attest to friends and relatives who have been harassed, assaulted, or worse by the police.
The right story begins here: A majority-black community feels abused by its almost entirely white police force. [2] And complaining to the white-dominated local government does no good. (As a report from Arch City Defenders spells out, the town of Ferguson gets significant revenue from assessing fines against poor people.)
If you start there, the narrative takes a completely different path. When a policeman shot Michael Brown six times on a city street in broad daylight in front of witnesses, the Ferguson community was not shocked (the way I would be if one of my white friends were gunned down by police in my majority-white town). Quite the opposite, this was the kind of incident they found all too believable, given the police behavior they see all the time.
So the reaction we've been seeing on the streets isn't "OMG! How can something like this happen?", it's "This shit has to stop."
But I see Malcom is now 3edgy5me, so I mostly posted that for the interest of the rest of the board.
Damn, that's a good article. Excellent links thoughout.
I'd like to express surprise at this:
QuoteIf I did find myself in an unexpected and unpleasant run-in with police, it would feel like snow in July. My instinct would be to wait it out until polite normality re-asserted itself. So I could easily follow the advice of LAPD's Sunil Dutta:
"if you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don't argue with me, don't call me names, don't tell me that I can't stop you, don't say I'm a racist pig, don't threaten that you'll sue me and take away my badge. Don't scream at me that you pay my salary, and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long? ... Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don't challenge a cop during a stop". [3]
But it would be a huge lie. One thing I'm sure of, this guy should not be in any kind of position of power.
YOU HAVE FIFTEEN SECONDS TO COMPLY.
It was nice touch having this as the cite note:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 27, 2014, 01:27:35 PM
Damn, that's a good article. Excellent links thoughout.
I'd like to express surprise at this:
QuoteIf I did find myself in an unexpected and unpleasant run-in with police, it would feel like snow in July. My instinct would be to wait it out until polite normality re-asserted itself. So I could easily follow the advice of LAPD's Sunil Dutta:
"if you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don't argue with me, don't call me names, don't tell me that I can't stop you, don't say I'm a racist pig, don't threaten that you'll sue me and take away my badge. Don't scream at me that you pay my salary, and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long? ... Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don't challenge a cop during a stop". [3]
But it would be a huge lie. One thing I'm sure of, this guy should not be in any kind of position of power.
I read the full piece by that Sunil Dutta guy, and I only just now put my finger on exactly what was so problematic with it--it reads like a "how to not get raped" piece...or even worse, "how not to get your ass beat while getting raped".
Seriously, just comply, it will make everything so much easier for everyone. Even in the face of misconduct, seriously, just comply.
Oh yeah, there's more than a few problems with that piece and that guy. More tomorrow.
http://thedollop.libsyn.com/ferguson-0
This week, the Dollop looks at Ferguson and additional issues surrounding it and what led to the police reacting as they did.
If you're bothered reading anything anyone has posted in AI about police and associated issues, there will be few surprises.
That's not to say there's no surprises at all. I was previously unaware of the initial police actions during the protest and while not surprised, I was again depressed to learn that SWAT teams have their own lobbying group. That shouldn't be a shock, really. Everyone from air products to zebra farms have their own lobbying group. I just hoped for a world where heavily armed police didn't use financial means to A)continue being heavily armed and B)demand more arms. For safety reasons, naturally.
The "SWAT Economy" was another concept I hadn't come across and it's again as obvious as it is depressing. SWAT officers get paid more. This results in responses being pushed to SWAT levels because everyone makes more money. The sole plus side to that is it explains why kids are able to SWAT each other with relative ease. The person answering the call is already inclined to believe it and the police are financially motivated to suit up and go in heavy. The end result is practically inevitable.
It's 90 minutes and if I didn't know better I would say that they got 70% of the material from this board.
Hey. Did you think it was done?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29607575
HA HA HA NO.
QuoteNearly 50 people have been arrested at protests in Ferguson, Missouri, over the shooting of an unarmed black teenager two months ago.
Civil rights activist Cornel West was among those held after he led a march to the police station.
Riot police lined up outside the building and arrests were made when people tried to break the line.
The protests were part of four days of events called "Ferguson October", which calls for an end to police brutality.
Demonstrators also demanded that charges be brought against the white officer who killed Michael Brown, 18, at the start of August
.
Please consider the date and how long you would expect to wait before being charged if
you shot someone in public, in broad daylight with a number of witnesses.
QuoteThe names of people killed by police across the US were read out, and those included Venderrit Myers Jr, another 18-year-old killed last week by a white police officer in nearby St Louis.
Police say Myers, who was black, shot first but they are investigating why 17 shots were fired by the officer.
"He shot at me so I had to shoot back. 17 times." Sounds legit. I have no idea about guns and magazine capacity but that sounds like he either emptied it or reloaded. Both, of course, are reasonable and proportionate.
Why aren't you laughing?
Somewhat related:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29611987
QuoteThe mother of Mark Duggan has lost a High Court bid to overturn a finding that her son was "lawfully killed".
Mr Duggan's death sparked nationwide riots after he was shot by a police marksman.
In January an inquest jury found Mr Duggan, 29, was lawfully killed in August 2011 in Tottenham, north London, despite being unarmed.
QuoteReferring to the riots which followed Mr Duggan's shooting, she said: "We are being punished because of the uprisings of 2011 and are not getting a fair trial. We are not accepting this.
"The verdict was perverse. It just didn't add up. It didn't make sense. How can somebody who is unarmed be lawfully killed?
QuoteMichael Mansfield QC, who appeared with Leslie Thomas QC, told a packed court at a two-day hearing in July that the "nutshell" of the case was to be found in the question: "How is it a man who is manifestly unarmed can be lawfully shot?"
An officer can only legally open fire if he honestly believes there is an imminent risk to his own life or to others.
Lawyers for the coroner said a gun, contained in a sock, was found on grass in the vicinity of Mr Duggan's body, and there was "a significant issue" about how it got there.
QuoteMs Duggan's separate legal action is focused on the guidance provided to police officers on whether they can confer before a court case involving police fatality.
Her lawyers say the Independent Police Complaints Commission has decided that key officers involved in a death should normally be separated from one another, but that this runs contrary to the policy of the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo).
The parallels between this incident and the Ferguson one just keep coming. Expect something like the above for Ferguson in about 3 years or so.
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
AHA HA HA
QuoteOn Friday Anonymous began doxing (publicly revealing identities and personal information) of KKK members in the Ferguson/St. Louis area.
AHAHAHAHAHA
QuoteThe grand jury investigation into the August 9 shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown and Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson is expected to return a verdict in the next few days.
According to the New York Times, protesters are already preparing for the decision.
TAKING ALL BETS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/us/groups-in-ferguson-prepare-for-grand-jury-decision.html?_r=1
QuoteNow, with the grand jury's decision expected in the coming days, the groups are preparing with intricate precision to protest the no-indictment vote most consider inevitable. Organizers are outlining "rules of engagement" for dealing with the police, circulating long lists of equipment, including bandages and shatterproof goggles, and establishing "safe spaces" where protesters can escape the cold — or the tear gas.
It'll be fine right?
QuoteThough the confrontations quieted, the demonstrations have continued nearly nightly since. About 50 organizations, including Mr. Simmons's, have joined forces in a "Don't Shoot Coalition," and the level of planning is intense.
Given the very name of the group, at least one of them being killed by police soon is surely fucking inevitable. What's their logo, a fucking target?
QuoteLeaders have shared text alert numbers to keep in constant contact.
Let's try that one again.
QuoteLeadersSubversive elements have shared text alert numberscommunicated between themselves and we are to keep in constant contact.
Closer to reality. There's no chance that any of these "leaders" are not fully known and identified by now. I'm sure we'll hear about their terrible criminal pasts in due course.
Anyway, it seems the question is mainly about the size of the next round of protests. I'll go with "Initially smaller until someone gets shot then shit goes to hell for a week straight" for £10.
National Guard is being called upon to support the police as well.
Is it bad that I thought that wasn't even worth mentioning? I assumed it's just kind of standard operating procedure now with shit like this.
ETA - More amusingly, did you see the list of 19 "demands"? It's not difficult to guess which ones the police smiled and nodded at and which ones they probably had an issue with.
Sorry, let's get this right. It's 19 "Rules of engagement". Let's reflect for a moment on the chosen terminology already. Says a lot about how all parties and sides view the situation.
Moving on, the 19:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/9c5255_9d5572481c7840fbad088ef6d8ae82d4.pdf
It's a very strange document to say the least, in no particular order. Some are obvious and actually, you know, the law(1,6,12,16,17). Others are going to be obvious outright "NO"'s for reasons ranging from law(15) to police procedure to policing tactics(7,8,9,10,11) and the inevitable shit there to shit that's just plain beyond their control(19).
I can't help but feel that this shit isn't helping. I can see the intent, but the language used, requests and various other shit in there looks largely set to provoke the stage for confrontation. Someone's going to be unhappy enough to do something stupid. It's really just a case of which side does it first.
A suspicious man might look at how long some of these "leaders" have actually been present in the local community and make a few calls into checking their backgrounds. Obviously that's insane paranoia. Just because UK intelligence services infiltrate such groups and push them to questionable ends, there's no evidence whatsoever that the USA would do something similar.
I think 3 things can be noted in Ferguson.
1. Social justice has gone off the deep end, Wilson did nothing wrong.
2. I don't want the cops having bigger guns than me. Which is why I bought a Howitzer
3. Cold is the natural enemy to riots. They waited till winter to release the verdict. We have some smart people in our government.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
Or your funometer is miscalibrated.
Quote from: N E T on November 19, 2014, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
I mean it surely pissed off the KKK, but they are used to it.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
Or your funometer is miscalibrated.
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
I think 3 things can be noted in Ferguson.
1. Social justice has gone off the deep end, Wilson did nothing wrong. (2 pt penalty for ambiguous language and assuming facts before you have them, even if the ref's probabilities are leaning in the direction of no indictment.)
2. I don't want the cops having bigger guns than me. Which is why I bought a Howitzer
3. Cold is the natural enemy to riots. They waited till winter to release the verdict. We have some smart people in our government.
:lol: 8/10
Quote from: Telarus on November 20, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
I think 3 things can be noted in Ferguson.
1. Social justice has gone off the deep end, Wilson did nothing wrong. (2 pt penalty for ambiguous language and assuming facts before you have them, even if the ref's probabilities are leaning in the direction of no indictment.)
2. I don't want the cops having bigger guns than me. Which is why I bought a Howitzer
3. Cold is the natural enemy to riots. They waited till winter to release the verdict. We have some smart people in our government.
:lol: 8/10
Wilson is the great Hitler of our time.
Killing someone who deserves it and being ridiculed by Marxists.
Wilson did nothing wrong.
He din du nuthin.
Somebody's mad his twitter got hacked.
I should put more thought into these posts though. Mindless hate speech is too easy.
Are we allowed to hateshit this guy yet?
Quote from: Meunster on November 20, 2014, 02:07:09 AM
Quote from: Telarus on November 20, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
I think 3 things can be noted in Ferguson.
1. Social justice has gone off the deep end, Wilson did nothing wrong. (2 pt penalty for ambiguous language and assuming facts before you have them, even if the ref's probabilities are leaning in the direction of no indictment.)
2. I don't want the cops having bigger guns than me. Which is why I bought a Howitzer
3. Cold is the natural enemy to riots. They waited till winter to release the verdict. We have some smart people in our government.
:lol: 8/10
Wilson is the great Hitler of our time.
Killing someone who deserves it and being ridiculed by Marxists.
Wilson did nothing wrong.
He din du nuthin.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10404230_363143553855434_5272627300814081134_n.jpg?oh=5de0426858b05b93947cebf57b293a52&oe=54DAC081&__gda__=1423302237_f277d62fc5d8be199a80e04586394d71)
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 20, 2014, 02:47:18 AM
Somebody's mad his twitter got hacked.
And their interim twitter account got taken too.
:lulz:
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
For a brief moment, I thought that you might be a friend of mine.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Also, Anonymous not doing "this social justice crap"? :lulz: Clearly you are a noob.
Quote from: Telarus on November 20, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
I think 3 things can be noted in Ferguson.
1. Social justice has gone off the deep end, Wilson did nothing wrong. (2 pt penalty for ambiguous language and assuming facts before you have them, even if the ref's probabilities are leaning in the direction of no indictment.)
2. I don't want the cops having bigger guns than me. Which is why I bought a Howitzer
3. Cold is the natural enemy to riots. They waited till winter to release the verdict. We have some smart people in our government.
:lol: 8/10
:mittens:
Better at it than Poptart.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 20, 2014, 03:21:34 AM
Are we allowed to hateshit this guy yet?
Fine by me. Ten minutes ago I was trying to give him a nice welcome wagon and now i find out he does this teenage posturing >LOOK AT MEEEE shit.
Yeah yeah little boy, you are very radical. Now go out and play.
I for one, welcome Meunster and his new, innovative, cutting edge (you might even say, "edgy") posting style.
It's 3edgy5me. I dont know if I can handle his radical out of the box thinking.
Quote from: Cain on November 20, 2014, 05:43:02 PM
It's 3edgy5me. I dont know if I can handle his radical out of the box thinking.
We arent supposed to. Like all the greats, Beethoven, Kubrick, Michael Bay, he will be shunned by the vulgar masses and like the greats, history will vindicate him.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/11/20/officer-darren-wilson-and-the-rule-of-law/
QuoteOur legal system is designed to provide significant protections before someone (like Wilson) can be charged with a crime. The easy thing for the grand jury to do in this case would be to pay little attention to the facts and bow to the raging intimidation campaign. The hard thing to do is to dispassionately consider the testimony and then, if it does not strongly support the conclusion that Wilson acted criminally, decline to authorize the filing of charges.
That's a whole heap of arse covering to still sound like a massive fucking tool.
QuoteFBI, for example, has issued a bulletin warning of likely violence across the country in the wake of the grand jury decision.
So are we saying that the FBI is a factor in the cause of riots? I think we are. Keep telling people that there's riots coming about X and you'll find people on the streets sooner or later.
Am I suggesting there might be direct gain for some parties from a resulting riot? No, it's more an insinuation. Practically every media outlet for instance will do better with riots than with a candlelit vigil or nothing at all. I'm sure there's more than a few cops that could do with the overtime and danger pay.
There's a very divisive game afoot here and it's pretty long standing by the feel of it now. The USA has always had a strange obsession with segregation of one form or another, probably a hangover from the colonial days. At the very least it feels like there's a firm movement towards effectively creating an official slave/underclass somehow socially acceptable. After all, these people just can't control themselves. Didn't we say they would riot regardless of the decision? Best vote for more police powers.
QuotePaul G. Cassell teaches criminal law, criminal procedure, and crime victims' rights(1) at the S.J. Quinney College of Law at the University of Utah.(2)
1 - "Fuck you unless it's conclusively proven you actually were a victim of this specific incidence beyond any and all reasonable doubt and even still, Fuck you."
2 - Ah. Explains a lot.
:lulz: :evil:
Quote from: Cain on November 20, 2014, 05:43:02 PM
It's 3edgy5me. I dont know if I can handle his radical out of the box thinking.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Meunster on November 20, 2014, 02:07:09 AM
Quote from: Telarus on November 20, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
I think 3 things can be noted in Ferguson.
1. Social justice has gone off the deep end, Wilson did nothing wrong. (2 pt penalty for ambiguous language and assuming facts before you have them, even if the ref's probabilities are leaning in the direction of no indictment.)
2. I don't want the cops having bigger guns than me. Which is why I bought a Howitzer
3. Cold is the natural enemy to riots. They waited till winter to release the verdict. We have some smart people in our government.
:lol: 8/10
Wilson is the great Hitler of our time.
Killing someone who deserves it and being ridiculed by Marxists.
Wilson did nothing wrong.
He din du nuthin.
I'm just hoping that this is very, very dry sarcastic humor.
If it is, forgive us for taking it literally. You should see some of the moronic wanna-be edgesters we get here.
Quote from: Meunster on November 20, 2014, 02:48:52 AM
I should put more thought into these posts though. Mindless hate speech is too easy.
Yes.
(http://i.imgur.com/65ZdyKy.png) (https://twitter.com/AnonCopWatch/status/534972265843007488/photo/1)
Considering how much water his previous threats carried (unmasking OVER 9000 ANONS BY SUNDOWN!!!1) I'm sure that's going to work out really well for him.
INDICTMENT DECLINED.
I am shocked. SHOCKED, I TELL YOU.
Quote from: Sexy St. Nigel on November 20, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
For a brief moment, I thought that you might be a friend of mine.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Also, Anonymous not doing "this social justice crap"? :lulz: Clearly you are a noob.
if by " social justice crap" you mean "sharing CP and flooding forums that monetize memes and try to invoke DMCA" then you might be right.
if you mean it any other way, then you obviously weren't in the trenches when people were raiding femenist bloggers for being patronising towards their male children or when the rule of the day was "let's go fuck with this forum full of faggots for teh lulz".
the events which associated anon with sjw garbage were events originally inspired by a YouTube video removal...not doctrinal issues pertaining the how cos is operated. its always been more about " how can we pirate shit and get away with using borderline illegal porno" than it is "how can we save darfur". and there's been racist overtones since day one...
the people playing at being anon since around 2010 or so are not the same people that were raiding subeta or making an entire variety of website famous for being human scum...consider that weev fellow...there's your " social justice" right there.
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/5933a7f2fd0ab10a77886ccfc3f6e481/tumblr_nfkuyrrroO1ql8t12o1_1280.png)
...
Quote from: von on November 25, 2014, 03:23:34 AM
Quote from: Sexy St. Nigel on November 20, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
For a brief moment, I thought that you might be a friend of mine.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Also, Anonymous not doing "this social justice crap"? :lulz: Clearly you are a noob.
if by " social justice crap" you mean "sharing CP and flooding forums that monetize memes and try to invoke DMCA" then you might be right.
if you mean it any other way, then you obviously weren't in the trenches when people were raiding femenist bloggers for being patronising towards their male children or when the rule of the day was "let's go fuck with this forum full of faggots for teh lulz".
the events which associated anon with sjw garbage were events originally inspired by a YouTube video removal...not doctrinal issues pertaining the how cos is operated. its always been more about " how can we pirate shit and get away with using borderline illegal porno" than it is "how can we save darfur". and there's been racist overtones since day one...
the people playing at being anon since around 2010 or so are not the same people that were raiding subeta or making an entire variety of website famous for being human scum...consider that weev fellow...there's your " social justice" right there.
So your argument is that Weev invalidates everything anon ever did?
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 03:31:43 AM
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/5933a7f2fd0ab10a77886ccfc3f6e481/tumblr_nfkuyrrroO1ql8t12o1_1280.png)
...
Saw that on the video. :lulz:
AMERICA™
Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 25, 2014, 03:32:06 AM
Quote from: von on November 25, 2014, 03:23:34 AM
Quote from: Sexy St. Nigel on November 20, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
For a brief moment, I thought that you might be a friend of mine.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Also, Anonymous not doing "this social justice crap"? :lulz: Clearly you are a noob.
if by " social justice crap" you mean "sharing CP and flooding forums that monetize memes and try to invoke DMCA" then you might be right.
if you mean it any other way, then you obviously weren't in the trenches when people were raiding femenist bloggers for being patronising towards their male children or when the rule of the day was "let's go fuck with this forum full of faggots for teh lulz".
the events which associated anon with sjw garbage were events originally inspired by a YouTube video removal...not doctrinal issues pertaining the how cos is operated. its always been more about " how can we pirate shit and get away with using borderline illegal porno" than it is "how can we save darfur". and there's been racist overtones since day one...
the people playing at being anon since around 2010 or so are not the same people that were raiding subeta or making an entire variety of website famous for being human scum...consider that weev fellow...there's your " social justice" right there.
So your argument is that Weev invalidates everything anon ever did?
no, my argument is that anon as seen on TV and anon as it existed before 12 year olds started wearing guy fawks masks are two very different things in both scope and attitude.
Quote from: von on November 25, 2014, 03:40:22 AM
.
no, my argument is that anon as seen on TV and anon as it existed before 12 year olds started wearing guy fawks masks are two very different things in both scope and attitude.
So, are you saying you were into it before it was hip, or that any movement can and should maintain rigid purity?
Question, will this make my "I'm not racist, but" cube mate STFU more or less than if there were an indictment?
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 03:53:56 AM
Question, will this make my "I'm not racist, but" cube mate STFU more or less than if there were an indictment?
He's gonna be crowing about it for weeks, just like every other racist piece of shit in the country.
von, go eat shit and die. If you were an anon in <2008 and you still give a fuck about the internet haet machine you need a new fucking hobby.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 25, 2014, 03:55:04 AM
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 03:53:56 AM
Question, will this make my "I'm not racist, but" cube mate STFU more or less than if there were an indictment?
He's gonna be crowing about it for weeks, just like every other racist piece of shit in the country.
Le sigh.
He had just stopped talking about that ranch thing.
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 04:02:54 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 25, 2014, 03:55:04 AM
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 03:53:56 AM
Question, will this make my "I'm not racist, but" cube mate STFU more or less than if there were an indictment?
He's gonna be crowing about it for weeks, just like every other racist piece of shit in the country.
Le sigh.
He had just stopped talking about that ranch thing.
I live for coworkers like that.
But I am a very rude man.
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 04:02:54 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 25, 2014, 03:55:04 AM
Quote from: Trivial on November 25, 2014, 03:53:56 AM
Question, will this make my "I'm not racist, but" cube mate STFU more or less than if there were an indictment?
He's gonna be crowing about it for weeks, just like every other racist piece of shit in the country.
Le sigh.
He had just stopped talking about that ranch thing.
Bundy ranch? if he just got off talking about that, I hate to inform you, but this fellow will probably be telling you about this new event for several years.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10413355_899231243429132_2406640970738857145_n.jpg?oh=b9830e0810779b69e26904d7b44d5af9&oe=54DD9A05&__gda__=1426656623_92ad0f4441908fbdb1d69457070c86b0)
I made it a point not to believe a single thing I read, saw, or heard about this...except the obvious--dead kid. Grieving family. Community on fire.
And I'll be fucked if that doesn't just leave me with this feeling that everybody is a perpetrator, everybody is a victim, and not a one of us has any idea what to do about any of it.
Well. That's potentially a good sign.
The National Bar Association is questioning how the Grand Jury, considering the evidence before them, could reach the conclusion that Darren Wilson should not be indicted and tried for the shooting death of Michael Brown. National Bar Association President Pamela J. Meanes expresses her sincere disappointment with the outcome of the Grand Jury's decision but has made it abundantly clear that the National Bar Association stands firm and will be calling on the U.S. Department of Justice to pursue federal charges against officer Darren Wilson. "We will not rest until Michael Brown and his family has justice" states Pamela Meanes, President of the National Bar Association. (http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b493e6c4d31beda32fdaf8e2d&id=73514e334b)
Doesn't seem to be a "satire" site, either.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 25, 2014, 03:32:06 AM
Quote from: von on November 25, 2014, 03:23:34 AM
Quote from: Sexy St. Nigel on November 20, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
Quote from: Meunster on November 19, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2014, 08:26:41 PM
HA HA
http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-seizes-klu-klux-klan-twitter-account-over-ferguson-threats-7000035836/
QuoteTwo Twitter accounts belonging to American racial segregation org Ku Klux Klan, @KuKluxKlanUSA and @YourKKKCentral, have been seized by Anonymous as part of the hacker-activist entity's new campaign, #OpKKK.
Wtf anonymous? Remember when they used to do fun things, not this Social justice crap.
For a brief moment, I thought that you might be a friend of mine.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Also, Anonymous not doing "this social justice crap"? :lulz: Clearly you are a noob.
if by " social justice crap" you mean "sharing CP and flooding forums that monetize memes and try to invoke DMCA" then you might be right.
if you mean it any other way, then you obviously weren't in the trenches when people were raiding femenist bloggers for being patronising towards their male children or when the rule of the day was "let's go fuck with this forum full of faggots for teh lulz".
the events which associated anon with sjw garbage were events originally inspired by a YouTube video removal...not doctrinal issues pertaining the how cos is operated. its always been more about " how can we pirate shit and get away with using borderline illegal porno" than it is "how can we save darfur". and there's been racist overtones since day one...
the people playing at being anon since around 2010 or so are not the same people that were raiding subeta or making an entire variety of website famous for being human scum...consider that weev fellow...there's your " social justice" right there.
So your argument is that Weev invalidates everything anon ever did?
I think his argument is that he's not very smart.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 25, 2014, 03:56:51 AM
von, go eat shit and die. If you were an anon in <2008 and you still give a fuck about the internet haet machine you need a new fucking hobby.
It's
adorable how he seems to think he's oldschool because he's been on the internet since he grew his first pubes. Approximately five years ago.
:lulz:
Oh fuck I just realized my yahoo mail account is 20 years old.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 25, 2014, 06:22:08 PM
Well. That's potentially a good sign.
The National Bar Association is questioning how the Grand Jury, considering the evidence before them, could reach the conclusion that Darren Wilson should not be indicted and tried for the shooting death of Michael Brown. National Bar Association President Pamela J. Meanes expresses her sincere disappointment with the outcome of the Grand Jury's decision but has made it abundantly clear that the National Bar Association stands firm and will be calling on the U.S. Department of Justice to pursue federal charges against officer Darren Wilson. "We will not rest until Michael Brown and his family has justice" states Pamela Meanes, President of the National Bar Association. (http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b493e6c4d31beda32fdaf8e2d&id=73514e334b)
Doesn't seem to be a "satire" site, either.
It appears to be legit.
Quote from: Trivial on November 26, 2014, 03:50:50 AM
Oh fuck I just realized my yahoo mail account is 20 years old.
Shit starts to go by real REAL fast.
Trolling AOL chatrooms while reading hilariously inaccurate bomb building manuals on Totse FTW
WRITING POSTCARDS.
SAND PAINTINGS OR GTFO, MOTHERFUCKER
POINTING WHILE MAKING GRUNTING NOISES, SPAGS.
RAPID EXPANSION, MOTHERFUCKERS. RAPID EXPANSION.
THE WORD.
I fucking love you people.
FORMATION OF AMINO ACIDS, YOU BASTARDS.
(http://memecrunch.com/meme/5AF/aliens-meme/image.png)
TERRITORIAL PISSING, YOU MISERABLE BASTA--
Oh, wait. That's Tumblr.
What are all these "words" and shit? The 21st century called, theres a little thing called direct brain to brain interface (http://www.livescience.com/27544-rats-with-linked-brains-work-together.html). Fucking cavemen ITT.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 26, 2014, 02:51:28 PM
TERRITORIAL PISSING, YOU MISERABLE BASTA--
Oh, wait. That's Tumblr.
:lulz:
So, people are actually protesting, despite the snow.
I am surprised but heartened by this news. Also the protests appear to be spreading...a lot.
Quote from: Cain on November 26, 2014, 03:59:37 PM
So, people are actually protesting, despite the snow.
I am surprised but heartened by this news. Also the protests appear to be spreading...a lot.
There was a big one here on MLK last night. Bus was stuck for a while as protesters poured down the street around it. I didn't mind; got quite a few bus-window high-fives and lots of finger-hearts from the protesters.
We had people lying down on interstate I-24 in Nashville.
Also, is it too late to say "Pissing off the Sysop because my computer uses PETSCII instead of ASCII"?
More and more, days after days, this countrys feel like Enrico is homes again.
A couple of perspectives on Ferguson:
http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2014/11/ferguson-problem-isnt-black-people.html
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/
http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/11/25/racism-is-asphalt-racism-is-a-bullet/
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2014, 12:23:53 PM
A couple of perspectives on Ferguson:
http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2014/11/ferguson-problem-isnt-black-people.html
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/
http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/11/25/racism-is-asphalt-racism-is-a-bullet/
Thanks for these, Cain.
That second one is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. I do wish his lit review on search and arrest rates had some studies from more varied regions (particularly the West Coast) and included more data from within the last twenty years, though; I am curious about whether that data simply isn't available, and if so, why.
It might be paywalled. I think he has access to some journals, due to his work as a psychiatrist, but probably not the sort of access one would get with a University account or so on.
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2014, 06:06:23 PM
It might be paywalled. I think he has access to some journals, due to his work as a psychiatrist, but probably not the sort of access one would get with a University account or so on.
Oh, gotcha. That's unfortunate, because I would really like to see what the analysis would look like after the police force in the US became so heavily militarized and the prison systems so much more monetized.
Oh, yay. Here come the cavalry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/us/on-rooftops-of-ferguson-volunteers-with-guns.html?_r=0
At least this guy was aware that he needed to include a "No Racists" clause in his request for help. I guess they'll just have to start their own party.
I'm hoping this somehow leads to aerial drone combat between Oathkeepers and Anonymous.
Quote from: Emo Howard on November 30, 2014, 09:15:32 PM
Oh, yay. Here come the cavalry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/us/on-rooftops-of-ferguson-volunteers-with-guns.html?_r=0
At least this guy was aware that he needed to include a "No Racists" clause in his request for help. I guess they'll just have to start their own party.
I'm hoping this somehow leads to aerial drone combat between Oathkeepers and Anonymous.
Oh, the irony:
Quotewe have a moral obligation to protect the weakest among us.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 30, 2014, 10:47:23 PM
Oh, the irony:
Quotewe have a moral obligation to protect the weakest among us.
I don't think he meant
Black people.
The real irony here is that the Oathkeepers are bumping heads with the cops, but are on speaking terms with the protestors.
And the police seem more than a little butthurt that the public seems to trust the Oathkeepers more than the (nonexistent) trust they have for the police.
Don't get me wrong. This isn't a good thing; it's just another failure of the infrastructure, of the same type (though smaller than) the K-Hole.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 01:01:00 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 30, 2014, 10:47:23 PM
Oh, the irony:
Quotewe have a moral obligation to protect the weakest among us.
I don't think he meant Black people.
:horrormirth:
i feel kinda ambivalent about the Oathkeeper situation. I like the idea of them, but their organization smells a little too much like a bunch of gun clubs got together and decided to play a game of chicken with Big Brother. Waiting to see how this plays out.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 01:05:23 AM
The real irony here is that the Oathkeepers are bumping heads with the cops, but are on speaking terms with the protestors.
And the police seem more than a little butthurt that the public seems to trust the Oathkeepers more than the (nonexistent) trust they have for the police.
Don't get me wrong. This isn't a good thing; it's just another failure of the infrastructure, of the same type (though smaller than) the K-Hole.
I've been hearing similar things about the churches in Ferguson.
Of course, the churches have also managed this feat without guns, but either way, it's not a good sign for local government.
Quote from: Cain on December 01, 2014, 06:53:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 01:05:23 AM
The real irony here is that the Oathkeepers are bumping heads with the cops, but are on speaking terms with the protestors.
And the police seem more than a little butthurt that the public seems to trust the Oathkeepers more than the (nonexistent) trust they have for the police.
Don't get me wrong. This isn't a good thing; it's just another failure of the infrastructure, of the same type (though smaller than) the K-Hole.
I've been hearing similar things about the churches in Ferguson.
Of course, the churches have also managed this feat without guns, but either way, it's not a good sign for local government.
Nope. Or, in this case (as in the K-Hole), state government.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10556453_10203932541808666_8519687578696139407_n.jpg?oh=29e9eb14caec80d14545b5ebc8421e80&oe=551B24CC&__gda__=1426295585_349001b31f049ff48b621eb4c37fe9d8)
Stealing that.
Madison WI used to have regular Halloween riots, one of which blamed a lesbian couple for starting.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 01, 2014, 02:33:07 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10556453_10203932541808666_8519687578696139407_n.jpg?oh=29e9eb14caec80d14545b5ebc8421e80&oe=551B24CC&__gda__=1426295585_349001b31f049ff48b621eb4c37fe9d8)
Well played.
(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/rams-hands-up-e1417380980145.jpg)
Five of the St Louis Rams entered yesterday's game with their hands up to show solidarity for Ferguson.
Police are, as one might expect, unhappy with this turn of events.
EoC congratulates these police on their ability to be unhappy, as nobody has shot them while they were unarmed with their hands up.
If that's for serious, the butthurt levels will reach "delicious".
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 09:12:00 PM
If that's for serious, the butthurt levels will reach "delicious".
Oh yeah, the St Louis Police Officer's Association condemned them and demanded disciplinary action on the part of the NFL. The NFL basically responded with "naaaah guy." Shockingly, on the ESPN shows that covered it this morning, they received full support for making their opinions known and the SLPOA was called out for their absolute nonsense response.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on December 01, 2014, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 09:12:00 PM
If that's for serious, the butthurt levels will reach "delicious".
Oh yeah, the St Louis Police Officer's Association condemned them and demanded disciplinary action on the part of the NFL. The NFL basically responded with "naaaah guy." Shockingly, on the ESPN shows that covered it this morning, they received full support for making their opinions known and the SLPOA was called out for their absolute nonsense response.
:lulz:
One of those players is going to have legal trouble very soon. Mark my words.
Just one?
We're not living in discreet times.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on December 01, 2014, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 09:12:00 PM
If that's for serious, the butthurt levels will reach "delicious".
Oh yeah, the St Louis Police Officer's Association condemned them and demanded disciplinary action on the part of the NFL. The NFL basically responded with "naaaah guy." Shockingly, on the ESPN shows that covered it this morning, they received full support for making their opinions known and the SLPOA was called out for their absolute nonsense response.
Ohhhh this is gonna fuck with Patriotic America's cognitive dissonance, BAD. :lol:
I'm very surprised the NFL didn't come down on this. They're pretty skittish around anything vaguely controversial. Of course, this being the week Roger Goodell was forced to reinstate Ray Rice and all...maybe they're just like fuck it.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 12:03:46 AM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on December 01, 2014, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 09:12:00 PM
If that's for serious, the butthurt levels will reach "delicious".
Oh yeah, the St Louis Police Officer's Association condemned them and demanded disciplinary action on the part of the NFL. The NFL basically responded with "naaaah guy." Shockingly, on the ESPN shows that covered it this morning, they received full support for making their opinions known and the SLPOA was called out for their absolute nonsense response.
Ohhhh this is gonna fuck with Patriotic America's cognitive dissonance, BAD. :lol:
Yep. Even football has turned on them.
WHAT'S A PO'BUCKER TO DO?
\
:horrormirth:
Whatever this is, it's
"NOT A FAILURE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT!"http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-fallout-st-louis-police-rep-jeff-roorda-its-not-a-problem-with-the-police/
QuoteAfter criticizing five NFL players for a pre-game gesture showing solidarity with Ferguson protesters, a St. Louis County Police Officers Association spokesman said law enforcement does not need to be changed in the wake of the killing of unarmed teen Michael Brown by white cop Darren Wilson.
The incident has set off waves of protests nationwide and calls for widespread reform to policing.
"Whatever has happened in America to cause these feelings of resentment, it's not a failure of law enforcement," St. Louis Police Officers Association business manager Jeff Roorda told CBS News correspondent Vladimir Duthiers. "It's a political failure, and it's an economic failure and we don't feel that should be pinned on the chest of Darren Wilson or law enforcement, more broadly."
Roorda said it's not on police to fix the problems that led to the resentment.
"If we spend this time in the wake of Michael Brown's killing trying to change law enforcement to fix this problem, it's going to be a betrayal to his legacy because that's not why Michael Brown ended on the street confronting a police officer," Roorda said. "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity. It's not a problem with the police."
...says the former cop known for filing false reports.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/12/01/jeff_roorda_st_louis_police_association_spox_who_attacked_rams_players_has.html
Quote... the record reveals that in July 1997, Roorda attempted to try to "cover" for another police officer by filing a report that contained false statements as to what happened during a suspect's apprehension and arrest. As a result of this false report, all charges against the defendant involved were dropped, and Roorda received a written reprimand from B.J. Nelson (the City's Chief of Police at the time) for violating the City Police Department's General Order 74.4 ("False Reporting").
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 05:22:45 AM
Whatever this is, it's "NOT A FAILURE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT!"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-fallout-st-louis-police-rep-jeff-roorda-its-not-a-problem-with-the-police/
QuoteAfter criticizing five NFL players for a pre-game gesture showing solidarity with Ferguson protesters, a St. Louis County Police Officers Association spokesman said law enforcement does not need to be changed in the wake of the killing of unarmed teen Michael Brown by white cop Darren Wilson.
The incident has set off waves of protests nationwide and calls for widespread reform to policing.
"Whatever has happened in America to cause these feelings of resentment, it's not a failure of law enforcement," St. Louis Police Officers Association business manager Jeff Roorda told CBS News correspondent Vladimir Duthiers. "It's a political failure, and it's an economic failure and we don't feel that should be pinned on the chest of Darren Wilson or law enforcement, more broadly."
Roorda said it's not on police to fix the problems that led to the resentment.
"If we spend this time in the wake of Michael Brown's killing trying to change law enforcement to fix this problem, it's going to be a betrayal to his legacy because that's not why Michael Brown ended on the street confronting a police officer," Roorda said. "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity. It's not a problem with the police."
...says the former cop known for filing false reports.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/12/01/jeff_roorda_st_louis_police_association_spox_who_attacked_rams_players_has.html
Quote... the record reveals that in July 1997, Roorda attempted to try to "cover" for another police officer by filing a report that contained false statements as to what happened during a suspect's apprehension and arrest. As a result of this false report, all charges against the defendant involved were dropped, and Roorda received a written reprimand from B.J. Nelson (the City's Chief of Police at the time) for violating the City Police Department's General Order 74.4 ("False Reporting").
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History
ever thought of themselves as the
bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as
The Hero of the Story.
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
Zealotry, natural disasters and auto-tune.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
And in all cases of zealotry, the failure that follows is merely proof that they didn't do it enough.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
And in all cases of zealotry, the failure that follows is merely proof that they didn't do it enough.
I recently found out that there's a name for this actual phenomenon. I can't remember it now, though. Maybe if I dig through my homework...
Here it is. In systems science, it's a combination of two archetypes, escalation and fixes that fail.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
And in all cases of zealotry, the failure that follows is merely proof that they didn't do it enough.
I recently found out that there's a name for this actual phenomenon. I can't remember it now, though. Maybe if I dig through my homework...
Here it is. In systems science, it's a combination of two archetypes, escalation and fixes that fail.
I am now running off to google, because that is a phenomena that has always fascinated me. Thanks!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
And in all cases of zealotry, the failure that follows is merely proof that they didn't do it enough.
I recently found out that there's a name for this actual phenomenon. I can't remember it now, though. Maybe if I dig through my homework...
Here it is. In systems science, it's a combination of two archetypes, escalation and fixes that fail.
I am now running off to google, because that is a phenomena that has always fascinated me. Thanks!
YW!
Twitter #Crimingwhilewhite is a good read.
Quote from: Trivial on December 04, 2014, 03:11:21 AM
Twitter #Crimingwhilewhite is a good read.
"I walked into a coffee shop while carrying a larp sword. I told the cop it wasn't real, he replies with "It wouldn't matter anyways #crimingwhilewhite"
I feel like I'm living in the judge Dred universe.
Granted there was a black kid carrying a fake katana that was shot to death.
However he also lunged at the cops with it.
There was one with a cosplay sword that was shot in the back.
There was also the guy who got put in a choke hold for selling cigarettes on a street corner and died in hospital as a direct result.
What kind of moron uses a choke hold as a control move anyway? Shit, I only did a year of ju-jitus and in one of the very first lessons we were told choke moves are potential killing moves. Not that you really need to be a genius to figure that out - anything involving the neck is potentially a killing move. You know, due to the central nervous system in its entirety running through it.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
And in all cases of zealotry, the failure that follows is merely proof that they didn't do it enough.
I recently found out that there's a name for this actual phenomenon. I can't remember it now, though. Maybe if I dig through my homework...
Here it is. In systems science, it's a combination of two archetypes, escalation and fixes that fail.
I doubt it's the name you're looking for but, confirmation bias?
Quote from: trix on December 05, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 03, 2014, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 03:34:07 AM
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 02, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 02, 2014, 06:09:16 AM
The most interesting thing about this is that he is saying some very true things about the system we live in: "It's decades of racial disparity, and economic disparity"... which also include law enforcement disparity.
Not that I'm saying that the U.S. police force are one of the great Bad Guys of History, but when you think about it, have any of the Bad Guys of History ever thought of themselves as the bad guys. It seems they almost always see themselves as The Hero of the Story.
Yeah, pretty much, which is exactly why all of the really big evils of the world are perpetrated by idealists trying to create a perfect society.
Hence my axiom that Utopias are built on stacks of bones. As are all of the other big-fucking plans primates make that never fucking work.
Yep.
I find that I encounter an awful lot of Atheists who believe zealously that all the great evils of the world are caused by religion. They tend to be very resistant to the idea that all the great evils of the world are, for the most part, caused by zealotry.
Well, zealotry and natural disasters.
And in all cases of zealotry, the failure that follows is merely proof that they didn't do it enough.
I recently found out that there's a name for this actual phenomenon. I can't remember it now, though. Maybe if I dig through my homework...
Here it is. In systems science, it's a combination of two archetypes, escalation and fixes that fail.
I doubt it's the name you're looking for but, confirmation bias?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 03, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
In systems science, it's a combination of two archetypes, escalation and fixes that fail.
The combination is also sometimes called a vicious cycle, but I find it more useful to separate it into component parts.
Quote from: Cain on December 05, 2014, 08:20:16 AM
There was also the guy who got put in a choke hold for selling cigarettes on a street corner and died in hospital as a direct result.
What kind of moron uses a choke hold as a control move anyway? Shit, I only did a year of ju-jitus and in one of the very first lessons we were told choke moves are potential killing moves. Not that you really need to be a genius to figure that out - anything involving the neck is potentially a killing move. You know, due to the central nervous system in its entirety running through it.
Even door security here have to take a training course to get certified in how to subdue someone without killing them.
It seems clear that a huge part of the problem is that police officers have little incentive NOT to use deadly force, because there are basically no consequences. On top of that many are ex-military, desensitized to killing, and have been trained to view civilians as "the enemy"; dangerous and less than human.
When I took security training we were taught that the legal use of force against someone had to be equal and appropriate. So you couldn't use a baton against someone unarmed, etc. could it be because he used a chokehold, which is technically unarmed which allowed it to squeeze through?
Mind you, my training was in Toronto, and the laws are likely very different in New York.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 05, 2014, 04:38:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 05, 2014, 08:20:16 AM
There was also the guy who got put in a choke hold for selling cigarettes on a street corner and died in hospital as a direct result.
What kind of moron uses a choke hold as a control move anyway? Shit, I only did a year of ju-jitus and in one of the very first lessons we were told choke moves are potential killing moves. Not that you really need to be a genius to figure that out - anything involving the neck is potentially a killing move. You know, due to the central nervous system in its entirety running through it.
Even door security here have to take a training course to get certified in how to subdue someone without killing them.
It seems clear that a huge part of the problem is that police officers have little incentive NOT to use deadly force, because there are basically no consequences. On top of that many are ex-military, desensitized to killing, and have been trained to view civilians as "the enemy"; dangerous and less than human.
Depends. Officer Hart of Skokie was in fact convicted for flinging that woman face first into a concrete bunk last year.
But she was White, of course.
Quote from: Hoopla on December 05, 2014, 04:49:45 PM
When I took security training we were taught that the legal use of force against someone had to be equal and appropriate. So you couldn't use a baton against someone unarmed, etc. could it be because he used a chokehold, which is technically unarmed which allowed it to squeeze through?
Mind you, my training was in Toronto, and the laws are likely very different in New York.
From my entirely too-brief and surface-level understanding, deadly force is permissable if the officer
feels there is no other option.
So it seems that all a cop has to do in front of a jury is say that he felt threatened, and "had no other choice". It seems like that's what went down on the Ferguson and Staten Island grand juries.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 05, 2014, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on December 05, 2014, 04:49:45 PM
When I took security training we were taught that the legal use of force against someone had to be equal and appropriate. So you couldn't use a baton against someone unarmed, etc. could it be because he used a chokehold, which is technically unarmed which allowed it to squeeze through?
Mind you, my training was in Toronto, and the laws are likely very different in New York.
From my entirely too-brief and surface-level understanding, deadly force is permissable if the officer feels there is no other option.
So it seems that all a cop has to do in front of a jury is say that he felt threatened, and "had no other choice". It seems like that's what went down on the Ferguson and Staten Island grand juries.
That leaves a frightening amount of wiggle room.
Quote from: Hoopla on December 05, 2014, 07:11:26 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 05, 2014, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on December 05, 2014, 04:49:45 PM
When I took security training we were taught that the legal use of force against someone had to be equal and appropriate. So you couldn't use a baton against someone unarmed, etc. could it be because he used a chokehold, which is technically unarmed which allowed it to squeeze through?
Mind you, my training was in Toronto, and the laws are likely very different in New York.
From my entirely too-brief and surface-level understanding, deadly force is permissable if the officer feels there is no other option.
So it seems that all a cop has to do in front of a jury is say that he felt threatened, and "had no other choice". It seems like that's what went down on the Ferguson and Staten Island grand juries.
That leaves a frightening amount of wiggle room.
*cue laugh track*
Here's some idle thoughts about things that might help the situation:
1.) As soon as the relevant technology starts to see large-scale production all current police sidearms should be replaced with models that use biometric verification to identofy legitimate users (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_gun), thus ending the legitimacy of "he tried to take my gun" as a relevant excuse. The officers themselves would also be protected in the rare cases when someone actually does go for their gun. Write your congressthing.
2.) If the sense of espirit de corps among police officers could somehow be reduced or eliminated (though i don't know how this would be achieved), police would actually be willing to arrest other officers that they catch breaking the law.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 08, 2014, 06:27:51 AM
Here's some idle thoughts about things that might help the situation:
1.) As soon as the relevant technology starts to see large-scale production all current police sidearms should be replaced with models that use biometric verification to identofy legitimate users (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_gun), thus ending the legitimacy of "he tried to take my gun" as a relevant excuse. The officers themselves would also be protected in the rare cases when someone actually does go for their gun. Write your congressthing.
2.) If the sense of espirit de corps among police officers could somehow be reduced or eliminated (though i don't know how this would be achieved), police would actually be willing to arrest other officers that they catch breaking the law.
Ever seen what happened to Judge Dredd Stallone? I have.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on December 08, 2014, 06:27:51 AM
Here's some idle thoughts about things that might help the situation:
1.) As soon as the relevant technology starts to see large-scale production all current police sidearms should be replaced with models that use biometric verification to identofy legitimate users (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_gun), thus ending the legitimacy of "he tried to take my gun" as a relevant excuse. The officers themselves would also be protected in the rare cases when someone actually does go for their gun. Write your congressthing.
2.) If the sense of espirit de corps among police officers could somehow be reduced or eliminated (though i don't know how this would be achieved), police would actually be willing to arrest other officers that they catch breaking the law.
The chest cameras are a far greater deterrent then biometrics, although I'm all for biometric locking on home retail weapons if the electronics can both be guaranteed to:
-Fail in safety mode (gun cant be fired if fault with ID system)
-Fault tolerance of manufacturing to six sigma (3 devices in every million), with a long maintenance cycle (this is very hard in home retail electronics and drives the cost up).
I can see biometric weapons not happening for one simple reason - Reliability. Every force will resist on the basis that they can't be certain the gun will work "when needed". This is going to be regardless of whether the failure rate is higher or lower than conventional arms. Anything that could "put officers lives at risk" will be played up and presented in such ways.
Personally, I'm currently leaning towards arming police officers with things such as RPG's and heavy explosives. Anything where killing a civilian at close range also means serious harm for yourself as well, really.
It's not a solution, but it's at least a way of ensuring that the stupidest officers are kept away from intense situations.
Corey Robin has pointed out some frightening rhetoric coming from the NYPD
http://coreyrobin.com/2014/12/22/a-weimar-y-vibe/
QuoteListening to these cries from the cops—of blood on people's hands, of getting on a war footing—it's hard not to think that a Dolchstosslegende isn't being born. Throw in the witches brew of race and state violence that kicked it off, the nearly universal obeisance to the feelings and sensitivities of the most powerful and militarized sectors of the state, and the helplessness and haplessness of the city's liberal voices, and you begin to get a sense of the Weimar-y vibe (and not the good kind) out there.
But whatever historical precedent comes to mind, one thing is clear.
The entire New York City establishment—not just De Blasio, but political, cultural, and economic elites—is terrified (or in support) of the cops. With the exception of this fairly cautious statement from Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, himself a former police captain, not one of these figures has spoken out against the Freikorps-ish rhetoric emanating from the NYPD. It's not that these men and women are spineless or gutless in a psychological or personal sense. It's worse: They're politically frightened, which is far more dangerous. Because they have no sense of an alternative base or source of power. After decades of being whipsawed by capital—you could trace this rot all the way back to 1975, if not even further—they're simply not prepared to take on the police. Even if they wanted to.
Quote from: Cain on December 26, 2014, 10:08:22 PM
Corey Robin has pointed out some frightening rhetoric coming from the NYPD
http://coreyrobin.com/2014/12/22/a-weimar-y-vibe/
QuoteListening to these cries from the cops—of blood on people's hands, of getting on a war footing—it's hard not to think that a Dolchstosslegende isn't being born. Throw in the witches brew of race and state violence that kicked it off, the nearly universal obeisance to the feelings and sensitivities of the most powerful and militarized sectors of the state, and the helplessness and haplessness of the city's liberal voices, and you begin to get a sense of the Weimar-y vibe (and not the good kind) out there.
But whatever historical precedent comes to mind, one thing is clear.
The entire New York City establishment—not just De Blasio, but political, cultural, and economic elites—is terrified (or in support) of the cops. With the exception of this fairly cautious statement from Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, himself a former police captain, not one of these figures has spoken out against the Freikorps-ish rhetoric emanating from the NYPD. It's not that these men and women are spineless or gutless in a psychological or personal sense. It's worse: They're politically frightened, which is far more dangerous. Because they have no sense of an alternative base or source of power. After decades of being whipsawed by capital—you could trace this rot all the way back to 1975, if not even further—they're simply not prepared to take on the police. Even if they wanted to.
Well that's fucking alarming.
I just posted something about waiting for protesting to be relabeled a form of terrorism. I was slightly tongue-in-cheek... I probably shouldn't have been.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 26, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 26, 2014, 10:08:22 PM
Corey Robin has pointed out some frightening rhetoric coming from the NYPD
http://coreyrobin.com/2014/12/22/a-weimar-y-vibe/
QuoteListening to these cries from the cops—of blood on people's hands, of getting on a war footing—it's hard not to think that a Dolchstosslegende isn't being born. Throw in the witches brew of race and state violence that kicked it off, the nearly universal obeisance to the feelings and sensitivities of the most powerful and militarized sectors of the state, and the helplessness and haplessness of the city's liberal voices, and you begin to get a sense of the Weimar-y vibe (and not the good kind) out there.
But whatever historical precedent comes to mind, one thing is clear.
The entire New York City establishment—not just De Blasio, but political, cultural, and economic elites—is terrified (or in support) of the cops. With the exception of this fairly cautious statement from Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, himself a former police captain, not one of these figures has spoken out against the Freikorps-ish rhetoric emanating from the NYPD. It's not that these men and women are spineless or gutless in a psychological or personal sense. It's worse: They're politically frightened, which is far more dangerous. Because they have no sense of an alternative base or source of power. After decades of being whipsawed by capital—you could trace this rot all the way back to 1975, if not even further—they're simply not prepared to take on the police. Even if they wanted to.
Well that's fucking alarming.
Here's a scary thought, based on the predicted forthcoming robotics revolution. At the point where the robots take over even 20% of unskilled labour the prison industrial complex is going to turn into McDeathcamp
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 26, 2014, 10:16:13 PM
I just posted something about waiting for protesting to be relabeled a form of terrorism. I was slightly tongue-in-cheek... I probably shouldn't have been.
Well, one DoD manual and the FBI have already labelled protesting and activism as "low level terrorism".
Quote from: Cain on December 27, 2014, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 26, 2014, 10:16:13 PM
I just posted something about waiting for protesting to be relabeled a form of terrorism. I was slightly tongue-in-cheek... I probably shouldn't have been.
Well, one DoD manual and the FBI have already labelled protesting and activism as "low level terrorism".
Great. Let's just kick back and see how long until people are getting "disappeared" for organizing protests.
http://gawker.com/police-chief-respecting-cops-means-respecting-protesto-1675787560?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
DOIN' IT WRONG. This guy is SO late 20th century.
I have no idea how someone like that gained a position of any power in this state. When the local TV stations were posting their articles on facebook, most comments were from people demanding a police crackdown, and many were threatening to run the protesters over in their big ol' Chevy trucks.
Quote from: Emo Howard on December 29, 2014, 08:02:10 PM
I have no idea how someone like that gained a position of any power in this state. When the local TV stations were posting their articles on facebook, most comments were from people demanding a police crackdown, and many were threatening to run the protesters over in their big ol' Chevy trucks.
Sometimes it only takes one guy to stop a po'bucker avalanche.
Huh...
I'd almost forgotten what it was like to read something positive on the internet.
Thanks Howl :)
Quote from: Demolition Squid on December 29, 2014, 08:31:17 PM
Huh...
I'd almost forgotten what it was like to read something positive on the internet.
Thanks Howl :)
Don't thank me. Thank the only moral man in Nashville.
That is AWESOME! Also awesome is this:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141218/08520629477/oakland-pd-body-cams-help-cut-police-involved-shootings-8-year-to-zero-last-18-months.shtml
Less awesome is this (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/30/gun-deaths-us-police-officers-jump-report):
Quote"With the increasing number of ambush-style attacks against our officers, I am deeply concerned that a growing anti-government sentiment in America is influencing weak-minded individuals to launch violent assaults against the men and women working to enforce our laws and keep our nation safe," said Craig Floyd, chairman and CEO of the memorial fund.
"Enough is enough," he said in a statement. "We need to tone down the rhetoric and rally in support of law enforcement and against lawlessness."
You've got to love someone who can say - in the same breath - that we need to tone down the rhetoric and then paint the two sides as simply 'law enforcement' or 'lawlessness'. I'm sure that entrenching the two sides as 'The Law' and 'Cop Killing Anarchists' will help everyone calm down and sit down like reasonable people, right?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 29, 2014, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on December 29, 2014, 08:31:17 PM
Huh...
I'd almost forgotten what it was like to read something positive on the internet.
Thanks Howl :)
Don't thank me. Thank the only moral man in Nashville.
I googled him to try to find the inevitable disappointing piece of news on him. Instead, there's him blowing the whistle on secret service agents for trying to get his officers to produce a fake warrant. There's an interview with him on NPR where he asked for more black people to join the Nashville Metro PD. And another story where he accused a sitting judge of having a "good ole boy" attitude towards domestic violence offenders. This is all just from the last few months.
Too early to say for sure, but I'm thinking Steve Anderson may just have a posse.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on December 30, 2014, 04:11:43 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 29, 2014, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on December 29, 2014, 08:31:17 PM
Huh...
I'd almost forgotten what it was like to read something positive on the internet.
Thanks Howl :)
Don't thank me. Thank the only moral man in Nashville.
I googled him to try to find the inevitable disappointing piece of news on him. Instead, there's him blowing the whistle on secret service agents for trying to get his officers to produce a fake warrant. There's an interview with him on NPR where he asked for more black people to join the Nashville Metro PD. And another story where he accused a sitting judge of having a "good ole boy" attitude towards domestic violence offenders. This is all just from the last few months.
Too early to say for sure, but I'm thinking Steve Anderson may just have a posse.
Yeah, he appears to be the genuine article.
There are a lot of disappointed Bubbas and Bubbettes in Nashville right now. They're super pissed that he passed up such a great opportunity to crack some "racist" libtard skulls.
https://www.facebook.com/newschannel5/posts/10152521511177548
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-lawsuit-20150209-story.html#page=1
Quote"They are kept in overcrowded cells; they are denied toothbrushes, toothpaste, and soap; they are subjected to the constant stench of excrement and refuse in their congested cells; they are surrounded by walls smeared with mucus and blood; they are kept in the same clothes for days and weeks without access to laundry or clean underwear; they step on top of other inmates, whose bodies cover nearly the entire uncleaned cell floor, in order to access a single shared toilet that the city does not clean; they develop untreated illnesses and infections in open wounds that spread to other inmates; they endure days and weeks without being allowed to use the moldy shower; their filthy bodies huddle in cold temperatures with a single thin blanket even as they beg guards for warm blankets; they are not given adequate hygiene products for menstruation; they are routinely denied vital medical care and prescription medication, even when their families beg to be allowed to bring medication to the jail; they are provided food so insufficient and lacking in nutrition that inmates lose significant amounts of weight; they suffer from dehydration out of fear of drinking foul-smelling water that comes from an apparatus on top of the toilet; and they must listen to the screams of other inmates languishing from unattended medical issues as they sit in their cells without access to books, legal materials, television, or natural light. Perhaps worst of all, they do not know when they will be allowed to leave."
Also note the financial/political economy incentives behind this:
QuoteMany residents described experiencing constant scrutiny and ticketing by police for minor traffic offenses as they traveled through northern St. Louis County's dense quilt of small suburbs, whose municipal budgets rely heavily on the fines that come as a result.
Opponents of the ticketing practice say the system preys on poor residents who can't pay the disproportionate number of fines levied against them. In the worst-case scenarios, they said, poor but upstanding citizens become trapped in a cycle of poverty and jail time because they cannot pay their fines, which can result in warrants for their arrest.
QuoteThe lawsuits detail a system described as a "modern debtors' prison scheme" in which residents are held against their will in poor conditions without proper access to representation.
The complaints also describe a system in which inmates negotiate their fines with the courts and jail guards in order to secure their release – only to discover, after posting bond, that they would remain in jail on a separate warrant for a minor infraction.
The Jennings jail, for instance, serves as a jail for neighboring municipalities, and inmates sometimes don't know which city is legally holding them in custody, attorneys said.
"People end up running from city to city to figure out what city needs to be paid," Roediger said.
And, of course:
Quote"The jails are only full of black people. That's what sticks out to me," DeBerry said. "They are sticking these high fines on poor black people, and they cannot pay, and jailing them like that - they are sticking people in these jails who don't even have jobs ... it's just horrible."
Punishment for profit!
Go Team America!