On suffering fools gladly

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think it's time for the obligatory xkcd comic on this topic:

Can't see it. 

[Cain]

Bunch of people on the subway.

All of them are thinking: "Look at these people.  Glassy-eyed automatons going about their daily lives, never stopping to look around and think!  I'm the only conscious human in a world of sheep."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

HAH!

I always knew there was something I disliked about Kornbluth's The Marching Morons (which inspired, in part, Idiocracy.)  The premise was that the stupid people were breeding, but smart people weren't, so the planet became crowded with idiots.

Thing is, Kornbluth's premise was based on his observation that lower class people had more children than upper class people.  In short, the working class is STUPID, because they don't have money.  Anyone who has worked with tradesmen can tell you differently, of course.  Stupid tradesmen don't last in the field.  What you have is smart people with low formal education levels but high levels of experientially-gained skills.

So, yeah, elitism.  Pretty blatant elitism, in fact.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Bunch of people on the subway.

All of them are thinking: "Look at these people.  Glassy-eyed automatons going about their daily lives, never stopping to look around and think!  I'm the only conscious human in a world of sheep."

Oh, yeah, I've seen that one.   

Gary Larson and Gahan Wilson did a few like that, too.

[LMNO]

HAH!

I always knew there was something I disliked about Kornbluth's The Marching Morons (which inspired, in part, Idiocracy.)  The premise was that the stupid people were breeding, but smart people weren't, so the planet became crowded with idiots.

Thing is, Kornbluth's premise was based on his observation that lower class people had more children than upper class people.  In short, the working class is STUPID, because they don't have money.  Anyone who has worked with tradesmen can tell you differently, of course.  Stupid tradesmen don't last in the field.  What you have is smart people with low formal education levels but high levels of experientially-gained skills.

So, yeah, elitism.  Pretty blatant elitism, in fact.

Often lacking critical thinking and rationalist thought patterns, yes. Stupid, no.  But that's what learning is for, right?

[Mangrove]

We should probably define a few terms here:

Uneducated - While a person may be smart or stupid, they lack the tools to put what brainpower they have to use, or to optimum use.
Stupid -  The condition of ignoring skills learned when attempting a task or conversation.
Willfully ignorant -  The condition of NOT WANTING the tools to use your intelligence, because you've put on a uniform that disagrees with those tools for one reason or another.
Smart -  The condition of having the brains, education, and emotional stability required to make good decisions.
Fool. -  One who blindly follows the reasoning of another, because thinking for themselves is either too much bother, or they need to follow the pack.
Brain damaged -  Physical damage to the brain that prevents one from learning or making good decisions.
Emotionally impaired - The condition of having emotions overriding thought.
Dunning/Kruger - I am a genius in all things, surrounded by retards.  I know more about your specialty than you do, even though I have no training in the field.

Anyone want to change or add to this?

I like this list. Can we call it The Spectrum of Derp?

[Cain]

It's also been shown that quality of teaching and income affect a child's later intelligence far more than the intelligence of the parents.

So it's bad science, in addition to classist snobbery and factually incorrect.  In fact, it's pretty much a total re-hash of the late 19th/early 20th century mania for eugenics...and we all know how that turned out.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Mental capacity is not a reason to hate people. I know a couple of totally cool people who are (by my definition) thick as pigshit. Doesn't make them bad people any more than being smart would make them good people. And yeah, I tend to look down my nose at the kind of superior asshole who feels the need to brim with distain.

Watching someone who, through no fault of their own, is a bit dim, completely missing some "intellectual" wanker making themselves look like a dick at the thick punters expense is one of those priceless little moments that I get to experience from time to time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Often lacking critical thinking and rationalist thought patterns, yes.

You might be surprised.

That panel isn't going to be troubleshot by Baby Jesus and Market Forces.  It requires logic, rational thinking, and the ability to drop a cherished theory when it turns out to be wrong.

Some of the best chess players I've ever met were tradesmen.  Some of the smartest people I've met were tradesmen.  All of these things go hand in hand.

Granted, they did have to take the long route to get there...20 years of experience vs 4 years of school.  On the other hand, everything they learned is useful for them.

Another interesting fact:  Probably because of the need for the above mental faculties, tradesmen often become bored with vanilla television culture, and start reading Roman history, Voltaire, etc.

They also tend to be liberal as hell, despite what Fox might say about things.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My grandfather was a tradesman his whole life, and he insisted that every man should be at least minimally capable as one sort of artist or another, or that person had wasted their life by existing as a mule.

So Kornbluth can kiss my entire spotty arse.

[Mangrove]

Both my grandfather's were tradesmen. My mom's dad left school at 14 and spent his life making shoes. Although he had limited formal education, he was very skillful artistically and had quite a philosophical bent.

My dad's father was an electrician in the dockyard. Was hamfisted with just about everything he did unless he had to do with wires and electricity in which case, he was really good. He also had a limited formal education but read widely and voraciously as an adult.

My dad was the first person on either side of the family to go to University in the early 60s. Although he did get the formal education his parents didn't, he's one of the most pragmatic & resourceful people I know. He's got the kind of brain where he can see something in his head and build it right away with very little fuss. Given that I can't even hammer a fucking nail straight into a piece of wood, this is never ceases to amaze me!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My father is a smart guy, except that he doesn't adjust well.  Stupidity appalls him.  Not in a "You People are DUMB" kind of way, but in a "HOW CAN ANYONE ACT LIKE THAT?"

The specific type of stupidity that seems to bother him is, from the dictionary definition, "lack of common sense" with a dash of "can't see past next week", and is usually aimed at Arizona politicians.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I work with some stupid kids, man. In the sense that these kids are fucked over by the world from day one, before they're even born. It's easy to see where a lot of these guys are headed, and it isn't anywhere good. They are going to do some stupid things, and end up in stupid places. I probably wouldn't like the adults many of them are going to become. But only a monster would feel disdain for these kids. Only a monster would fail to feel compassion.

Well, they were born guilty.  Lots of people are.  It's not their fault, but there you have it.  Take any of them and put them in front of a jury in Oro Valley, and they'd be sent to prison for life, before any charges are named.

Guilty = WRONG = Stupid = tired and poor and weak.

Innocent = RIGHT = Smart = rich and powerful.

[Mangrove]

I work with some stupid kids, man. In the sense that these kids are fucked over by the world from day one, before they're even born. It's easy to see where a lot of these guys are headed, and it isn't anywhere good. They are going to do some stupid things, and end up in stupid places. I probably wouldn't like the adults many of them are going to become. But only a monster would feel disdain for these kids. Only a monster would fail to feel compassion.

Well, they were born guilty.  Lots of people are.  It's not their fault, but there you have it.  Take any of them and put them in front of a jury in Oro Valley, and they'd be sent to prison for life, before any charges are named.

Guilty = WRONG = Stupid = tired and poor and weak.

Innocent = RIGHT = Smart = rich and powerful.

A friend of mine works as an investigator for the Public Defender's office. He used to be a marine and a cop and now his job is to make sure that the police are doing their jobs properly. One day, he was particularly pleased with the outcome of a case. Goes something like this:

"Many of the people I have to deal with have actually done what they're accused of. Still, I have to make sure that everything has been dealt with properly. However, every now and then, you get someone who gets snarled up in the system. This one guy I'm helping is, without doubt, really really stupid....but he's not a bad person and he's definitely not guilty of what he's accused of."

I can't remember the exact details of the situation but it involved a not very bright individual, drugs and a hooker. However, it was too easy for the cops to say "Ok, dumb guy with issues, it must be him."

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Reading ability/inclination could factor in, don't you think?

I've known a lot of people who could think fast, but they were semi-illiterate and therefore ignorant because they the bulk of their information from television. You have to read to get a lot of things.