Thanks to a post from Risus, I though of tis GASM. It would be a way for discordians to work together on a project without using the internet as a mediator, so it would really feel like everybody was ding it togethe, exactly because of the usage of material means instead of electronic ones.
The main idea is to use the mail service to get Discordians around the world to help with "whatever".
The inicial idea is to send a digital camera around, here is my original post in Apple Talk:
QuoteI think that the camera should have like a 2gb flash card and the people involved should be chosen first (so only thrustworthy people who wouldn't STEAL the camera would be part of it, lol), so each one who received would know the adress he should send next. Each person stays with the camera for 1 week. Also there should be a paper sent with the camera for the person to mark the numbers of the pictures he/she took and the city he's/she's in.
Then there could be an Intermittens special edition with the best pictures.
I know it sounds far-fetched because people could take photos themselves and send them here, but it would be funnier to actually have THE camera every one else used.
I would do this myself but the only camera I have available belongs to my father and he would never let me send it to random psycopathic people.....besides that I can't buy a new one just for that because here it costs like three times the price here in Brazil.
I'm pretty sure that you can find an OK digital camera for about.. 30 bucks or so, am I right?"
Of course that to avoid making a list of adresses that would expose a lot of people. Each person should PM the one he would send the "whatever" to and get the adress (without knowing if it is from his/her house, work, etc).
I don't know, it is really simple and maybe just stupid, but I would glady participate in things like this.
I dig it!
A lot of discordian documents used to be written this way, in the pre-internet area
your cabal would create some text or art or something, and then put it in a big envelope and mail it to another cabal
then those guys would edit it, play with it, collage it, work it into something new, put it in a big envelope, and mail it along
it's a lot easier to mail photos digitally than it is to ship a digital camera - is there a reason you'd want to work purely offline? it will be more costly, and there's a chance the project could get bottlenecked by one person who doesn't bother to mail stuff along.
A cheap disposable camera would work too. Person A snaps a few pictures, mails it to the next guy, and when the camera is full the last person gets it developed and posts the images here.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on August 17, 2010, 04:40:24 PM
A cheap disposable camera would work too. Person A snaps a few pictures, mails it to the next guy, and when the camera is full the last person gets it developed and posts the images here.
Yeah, this could work also, but those cameras usually don't take more than 20 or so pictures so it wouldn't work to send to a lot of people. When it got to the 3rd person they would have to buy another one. In time the digital onw would prove much cheaper and it enables each person to take as many pics as he wants and choose afterwards without losing the camera.
Quote from: Cramulus on August 17, 2010, 04:38:57 PM
it's a lot easier to mail photos digitally than it is to ship a digital camera - is there a reason you'd want to work purely offline? it will be more costly, and there's a chance the project could get bottlenecked by one person who doesn't bother to mail stuff along.
The reason of woriking offline is that you are really handling discordian material, wich other discordians also used. In a situation like the one you mentioned of years ago, you would REALLY have the paper in your hands, and would know that a lot of other discordians around the globe had it first, so it would be like handling a sacred document instead of just looking at some pic of what someone did sometime and thats it. In the camera idea, each person could customise the camera with a sticker or whatever and it would become a true discordian Relic! I think that when you really interact with the physical object there are a lot of phycological factors that make that waaay cooler. Also I think that that kind of REAL people interaction can help discordians get a little closer as it would be unlikely to set up real life meeting when there are people in all continents.
Anyway, this is only my humble opinios, let's discuss this more.
Quote from: LordOfganza on August 17, 2010, 05:42:32 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 17, 2010, 04:38:57 PM
it's a lot easier to mail photos digitally than it is to ship a digital camera - is there a reason you'd want to work purely offline? it will be more costly, and there's a chance the project could get bottlenecked by one person who doesn't bother to mail stuff along.
The reason of woriking offline is that you are really handling discordian material, wich other discordians also used. In a situation like the one you mentioned of years ago, you would REALLY have the paper in your hands, and would know that a lot of other discordians around the globe had it first, so it would be like handling a sacred document instead of just looking at some pic of what someone did sometime and thats it. In the camera idea, each person could customise the camera with a sticker or whatever and it would become a true discordian Relic! I think that when you really interact with the physical object there are a lot of phycological factors that make that waaay cooler. Also I think that that kind of REAL people interaction can help discordians get a little closer as it would be unlikely to set up real life meeting when there are people in all continents.
Anyway, this is only my humble opinios, let's discuss this more.
eh, can't a digital document be "real"? The illusion of authenticity can be kind of a hassle. The fact that some other discordians handled a piece of paper isn't really important to me. Also, my skills are mainly digital - I write text, I photoshop, I MS-Paint, I lay out... I don't do a lot of drawing, painting, old school analogue collage, etc.
and like many people, I am lazy. Being honest with myself here, I probably wouldn't actually mail the digital camera, it would just sit on my table for 4 or 5 weeks until one of my roommates put it in a drawer or something. E-mail, however, takes a lot less effort and postage to send from one person to the next.
I agree that with previous statements to the effect that a camera would be really cumbersome. On top of that I've heard tell that Discordians here have gone to other continents to meet other Discordians. It's not frequent, but it happens. I've met Cram, Dok, Darth Cupcakes, Richter, Suu, Cuddlefish, Alphapance, etc... If I'm ever in Toronto, I'll give Rhizome and Dystopia a heads up and meet up with them. If I'm in Portland, I'll give Nigel a heads-up. Next time I'm in Ireland long enough, I might try hop over to England and meet up with BadBeast... etc...
Though I think that this idea has some promise and can be tweaked into something a little smoother. I'll have to ponder it a little more to throw in my two cents.
Yeah, maybe you are right, the camera idea may prove itself cumbersome. My abilities are more electronic too (photoshop etc..) but I still think it would be nice to be in contact with something physical now and then. Of course I don't mean that electronic documents are less real or less important, it's just a change of pace.
And I'm aware that people HAVE met each other even when from different continents. What I meant is that I, for example, rarely have the money to do that, eager to do that though I am (like to make a tour around the USA that I know so little and meet the peers on the way). And to make some "whatever" with real signatures or contributions sound nice, like once in many months. Again, maybe we all have to ruminate on what sorts of things would get more this way than through electronic ways...
I think this would be awesome and it would be interesting, to say the least. I am a bit more lazy than not, but would make it a point to mail the damned camera.
Maybe if there could be an element of 3-D mail without actually mailing the physical camera around?
Everyone involved in the project provides their mailing address (we might have to set up a semi-private method of doing this, although obviously everyone involved is accepting the risk), and someone takes on the responsibility of getting the ball rolling.
They do their own text, images, whatever, and post those online. Then they print it out (as much as they can given their personal printing capabilities; obviously the digital copies are online for perusal if someone lacks good-quality color printing), and mail the paper to someone on the mailing list without revealing who online.
When the person receives the letter, they get all excited as fuck and post online "HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS I GOT THE LETTER THAT MEANS IT'S MY TURN" and then they add their own stuff. Write a little blurb, a full article, draw a doodle or diagram, take a picture or three, whatever, and post it online. Then they print out whatever seems reasonable to print, and mail that to someone else on the list without revealing who online.
The idea here is to make this fun little activity where everyone who receives the letter gets all psyched and it becomes a game of Collaborative Discordian Hot Potato. Rather than trying to mobilize a dozen spags at once (which, as we all know, is a pain in the butt), only one person at a time has to do something, and everyone else gets to have fun watching while still being a part of it.
I'm thinking that this creates the dual benefits of the ease of online collaboration with the sense of fun that is inherent in receiving a piece of snail-mail that isn't a bill or credit card offer.
And Cramulus, I understand completely what you mean, and agree that for graphic stuff email is much easier. We could also make an E-mail GASM and at each project decide to which one it would go. My point is that I always looked at the changing of point of view and the way of doing things as a key thing in Discordianism. When everyone thought that religions and beliefs should be praised in specific places, temples, and gatherings of a lot of people, the Discordians proved that you could do the opposite. When other beliefs said that people who follow it should stick together, Discordians proved that it could also be the other way around. Having a community on the internet proves that we don't need any "real" place to meet and exchange ideas and can still have a community that interacts frequently. This also contradicts the discordians way of sticking apart all the time. So it seems that we break other peoples concepts all of the time and also our own, and thats great!
I realise that with the internet making everything easier we kind of got addicted by it and it would be a change of pace and also very discordian to mail stuff to each other when we could just as much be exchanging e-mails, and that's the fun part. Again, just my opinion.
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2010, 07:25:11 PM
Maybe if there could be an element of 3-D mail without actually mailing the physical camera around?
Everyone involved in the project provides their mailing address (we might have to set up a semi-private method of doing this, although obviously everyone involved is accepting the risk), and someone takes on the responsibility of getting the ball rolling.
They do their own text, images, whatever, and post those online. Then they print it out (as much as they can given their personal printing capabilities; obviously the digital copies are online for perusal if someone lacks good-quality color printing), and mail the paper to someone on the mailing list without revealing who online.
When the person receives the letter, they get all excited as fuck and post online "HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS I GOT THE LETTER THAT MEANS IT'S MY TURN" and then they add their own stuff. Write a little blurb, a full article, draw a doodle or diagram, take a picture or three, whatever, and post it online. Then they print out whatever seems reasonable to print, and mail that to someone else on the list without revealing who online.
The idea here is to make this fun little activity where everyone who receives the letter gets all psyched and it becomes a game of Collaborative Discordian Hot Potato. Rather than trying to mobilize a dozen spags at once (which, as we all know, is a pain in the butt), only one person at a time has to do something, and everyone else gets to have fun watching while still being a part of it.
I'm thinking that this creates the dual benefits of the ease of online collaboration with the sense of fun that is inherent in receiving a piece of snail-mail that isn't a bill or credit card offer.
THIS^
I like that, is solves our issues in a more intelligent way
We'll need some guidelines and contingency plans for possible difficulties.
For example, if no one seems to have received the letter a week after it was sent, the person who last sent a letter either sends another one to someone else or sends a private message to the person they sent the letter to, informing them they should have received it by now. The person who was supposed to receive the letter can then keep the ball rolling using the stuff that's been posted online.
One problem I had with Dok Howl's DAF Mailing List was finding a damn postage stamp; I had no convenient way of getting to a post office and nowhere I looked seemed to sell freaking stamps, so I had to beg one off of the people upstairs. If people can spare it, I'd suggest sending an extra stamp or two in the letter. That way no one in the mailing list slows up the whole game by not being able to find a stamp.
Quote from: Cramulus on August 17, 2010, 04:38:57 PM
I dig it!
A lot of discordian documents used to be written this way, in the pre-internet area
your cabal would create some text or art or something, and then put it in a big envelope and mail it to another cabal
then those guys would edit it, play with it, collage it, work it into something new, put it in a big envelope, and mail it along
I'm a fan of somehow making this way work.
We can start a thread where we'll list the people that want to be involved. As the mail package moves on, we tick names off the list and the next person to receive the package goes and checks who is left on the list and pm them for their address.
Quote from: Risus on August 17, 2010, 07:55:51 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 17, 2010, 04:38:57 PM
I dig it!
A lot of discordian documents used to be written this way, in the pre-internet area
your cabal would create some text or art or something, and then put it in a big envelope and mail it to another cabal
then those guys would edit it, play with it, collage it, work it into something new, put it in a big envelope, and mail it along
I'm a fan of somehow making this way work.
We can start a thread where we'll list the people that want to be involved. As the mail package moves on, we tick names off the list and the next person to receive the package goes and checks who is left on the list and pm them for their address.
This. Everyone gets to play at least once, and then we can think of something to do with it once it's made the full round.
This thread reminds me of the late weirdo Ray Johnson.
Quote from: Liam on October 24, 2010, 11:59:50 AM
I'm in. Can we add random things to the package too?
I think the only consideration there is that people may not want to spend extra shipping for more stuff, if the random things are supposed to be sent on.
Easy enough to solve. Make sure that when you mail random things, you only mail perishable random things. That way people won't be able to send them on and so won't have to worry about it.
I still like this idea.
What can I do to make it actually happen?
I like this idea too- if it goes ahead can I be counted in please?
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 27, 2010, 05:35:18 AM
I still like this idea.
What can I do to make it actually happen?
Request the mailing addresses of everyone who wants to participate, then start.
I've been brainstorming quite a bit about this actually... there's a lot of fun possibilities.
I could send one letter out to a random individual on the list of people who send me their addresses, or I could send multiple letters.
If I send multiple letters, they might all be identical copies, or I might make them each slightly different.
I might lie completely about what I'm doing and say I've only sent 3 letters out when I actually sent 4, for the sake of Holy Confusion. And one of them will actually be totally different from the others...
Alright, the heck with it.
I'm gonna start a new thread in a bit, with some guidelines for the project that I think will be workable.
I LOVE this project
I am not sure that I have the time just yet
can I make a suggestion? that whatever we create using this technique should be bound together into something we can all enjoy.
perhaps everybody in the project can create 1 page and also add to each existing page. If there are 15 people there will be 15 pages.
I suspect that a lot of Discordian texts have been written this way.. cabals passing along materials for the next cabal to collage. If it hasn't been done this way in the past, let's do it in the present & future.
My page will probably be about the Fractal Cult, the working name for my sect of Discordia.
I'd definitely participate, btw.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 28, 2010, 08:44:19 PM
I LOVE this project
I am not sure that I have the time just yet
can I make a suggestion? that whatever we create using this technique should be bound together into something we can all enjoy.
perhaps everybody in the project can create 1 page and also add to each existing page. If there are 15 people there will be 15 pages.
I suspect that a lot of Discordian texts have been written this way.. cabals passing along materials for the next cabal to collage. If it hasn't been done this way in the past, let's do it in the present & future.
My page will probably be about the Fractal Cult, the working name for my sect of Discordia.
I'm willing to hold off on initiating the project for a week or two; I know I'm swamped as fuck for the next 7 days. Two people have sent me their addresses so far; I'll wait and see who else will work up the courage to send me theirs. Can't do nuffin' until I've got a decent body of addresses to work with!
And I totally agree that the end result should be compiled and bound into something. Since this will probably go through a dozen hands at most, I'm guessing, there's no problem with everyone getting their own page if they want to add a whole page.
People might be hesitant over how many people will receive their address.
How do you plan on distributing the addresses? Mass PM?
Maybe you can make a list and everyone only gets the address of the person below them on the list for purposes of sending.
Or
You can send it to person A, they send it back, you send to B, it returns, to C, etc.
Quote from: Risus on October 29, 2010, 05:06:24 AM
People might be hesitant over how many people will receive their address.
How do you plan on distributing the addresses? Mass PM?
Maybe you can make a list and everyone only gets the address of the person below them on the list for purposes of sending.
Or
You can send it to person A, they send it back, you send to B, it returns, to C, etc.
Mass PM was my original idea, but you're obviously right about people not necessarily wanting to give out their addresses to a whole bunch of people on the internet.
Maybe, instead of PMing the list of addresses I'm given, I'll print them out and include them on a separate sheet of paper to be passed along with the rest of the letter. Would people be more comfortable with that?