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Not sure if it will do any good but....

Started by Nephew Twiddleton, December 29, 2011, 06:15:49 PM

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Rumckle

That is true, but they aren't doing much either (apart from the Tea Party, but, of course, they lost their way as soon as they started)
It's not trolling, it's just satire.

Nephew Twiddleton

Fair point. Anyway i may sign a petion or two in the future if the mood strikes me. But the idea of now using this as an opportunity to jake the prez is appealing.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
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Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

AFK

How the heck did I get wrapped up into this convo?    :?
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

Best leave it alone rev. Its not worth it.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Khara on December 29, 2011, 11:35:01 PM
As always Nigel you know my thoughts, intentions and emotions so much better than I do myself.  I couldn't have made a legitimate error with the new names or anything. Or is it your personal and obvious hatred for RWHN that made you say that because god forbid anyone take someone's side you don't like right?

I should take your shining example of perfection and attempt my retarded best to come close to your shadow.

Maybe I should not think that you are incapable of leaving me alone unless I attempt to interact with you and I should realize your constant harping on me is what I truly need to hear to become a better person.

Or maybe my mistake is thinking people can be adult and leave name calling and personal insults out of a conversation.

Be that as it may, as I am the retarded one, I'll keep my posts to the media hyped one liners I'm mentally capable of in threads far away from the serious threads.



Far from constant harping, I try to avoid you whenever possible because you're so unpleasant to deal with and come up with the most far-fetched excuses to think I'm picking on you. Even when I leave you completely alone, you somehow (I am still scratching my head over this one) manage to interpret me quoting and agreeing with someone else who posted earlier in the thread, before you even posted in it, about something that had nothing whatsoever to do with you, as some sort of a slam, and your excuse for that one wasn't even coherent. It made no sense whatsoever.

The only reason RWHN came up in this thread is that for some mysterious reason that again is completely inexplicable to me, you thought that Cain only posted what he did as part of some kind of personal vendetta against him. Once again, completely out of left field, as RWHN had nothing to do with anything.

Spare me your self-martyrdom, please. It's tiresome.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Nephew Twiddleton

Hey cain are we cool? Cuz im about ready to abandon this thread.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

Ok, now that I'm on my computer instead of my phone and can actually do stuff like type quickly and quote stuff, I'm going to just tie up the loose ends here and be done with this fucking thread, other than to read any responses to this post.

Quote from: Cain on December 29, 2011, 07:58:20 PM

How, exactly?  As in, I'd like a step-by-step, logical argument to explain how this is better than doing nothing.

Note: I will not accept "giving yourself a warm, fuzzy feeling of Being Involved In Political Activism" as an argument.

This is what annoyed me. And it does strike me as condescending, and Cain (or anyone else), if you don't see that, I'm sorry. You're expecting me to give some sort of irrational, emotionally self-serving answer, and you just want to nip that in the bud, when I wasn't going to do anything of the sort, and you should know me well enough at this point to know that my answer would not have included any warm fuzzy feelings. Because that isn't better than nothing. But whatever, like I said I figured someone pissed in your cornflakes. So it all lead to this:

Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 29, 2011, 08:18:29 PM
Well if theres no way to do anything about it theres no point in voicing opposition. I wont bother in the future.

And I would have been happy to either let the thread die, or for you or someone to pick up on that post and use it as a springboard to keep the conversation going. Maybe you could have offered me advice on more effective ways to bother in the future, or some other riff or another. Or even look at the thing from a different angle.

Oh hey.

Quote from: Khara on December 29, 2011, 09:16:48 PM
Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 29, 2011, 08:18:29 PM
Well if theres no way to do anything about it theres no point in voicing opposition. I wont bother in the future.

Eh there was no reason for this thread to go the direction and tone it went.
  A prime example of us sniping on each other for no real good reason. 

Short of running for public office or inheriting a mega billion dollar world influencing company there really is not a lot any of us can actually do.  Well, we can speculate on options, but that's about it.  I understand the thinking behind this petition and I think it does make people feel better to sign these because it makes them feel they've been heard.  It's a natural thing.  However, none of us know what the reaction will be from the US government or Obama to this.  We really don't.  All the politicians are stressing their popularity right now.  It might be the right time for something like this to have an impact where it wouldn't any other time in a presidential term.  You just don't know.



And the bolded applies equally to me too. Guess you pissed in my cornflakes. I admit that. Maybe sniping wasn't the right word for it, but I agree with Khara's assessment that that sort of shit happens around here and probably fucks up threads because people end up arguing over shit. :looks around: Oh. Well, that's ironic.

It's cool. You didn't mean to piss in my cornflakes. But then of course it degenerates into a fight between you and Khara, and then eventually you, Khara and Nigel. And all three of you are at fault for spagging up my thread. You could have just ignored each other. I'm not mad. I just figured that I would point that out. And since all this comes flaring out of your poor choice of words and me letting it get me ruffled, there's really no point for any arguing in this thread to continue. You don't have to thread split, but unless you're going to resolve whatever disputes you have with each other in this thread, please take it elsewhere from this point on. Why you all don't get along is not my business, and I'm probably not interested anyway. I'm satisfied that Cain wasn't intentionally trying to talk down to me, so as far as I'm concerned the whole reason for the argument is over unless Cain needs to clear the air with me over something that I said in this thread.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Phox

Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 30, 2011, 01:51:55 AM
Ok, now that I'm on my computer instead of my phone and can actually do stuff like type quickly and quote stuff, I'm going to just tie up the loose ends here and be done with this fucking thread, other than to read any responses to this post.

Quote from: Cain on December 29, 2011, 07:58:20 PM

How, exactly?  As in, I'd like a step-by-step, logical argument to explain how this is better than doing nothing.

Note: I will not accept "giving yourself a warm, fuzzy feeling of Being Involved In Political Activism" as an argument.

This is what annoyed me. And it does strike me as condescending, and Cain (or anyone else), if you don't see that, I'm sorry. You're expecting me to give some sort of irrational, emotionally self-serving answer, and you just want to nip that in the bud, when I wasn't going to do anything of the sort, and you should know me well enough at this point to know that my answer would not have included any warm fuzzy feelings. Because that isn't better than nothing. But whatever, like I said I figured someone pissed in your cornflakes. So it all lead to this:
From a completely neutral third party: I don't see anything wrong with the way Cain's statement is worded. I don't think it's "expecting" any sort of response, but preempting the use of irrational, emotional arguments out of habit more than personal response.
Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 30, 2011, 01:51:55 AM
Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 29, 2011, 08:18:29 PM
Well if theres no way to do anything about it theres no point in voicing opposition. I wont bother in the future.

And I would have been happy to either let the thread die, or for you or someone to pick up on that post and use it as a springboard to keep the conversation going. Maybe you could have offered me advice on more effective ways to bother in the future, or some other riff or another. Or even look at the thing from a different angle.
This part sounds defensive and butthurt. (the part you quoted). I don't know what else to say that wouldn't be giving useless advice about past events, so I'll just leave it at that.

In short, Twid, I didn't read any condescension or hostility in Cain's posts directed at the OP. Maybe you should examine why you did and think on it a bit.

Nephew Twiddleton

Perhaps I should. In fact, I already did, since I said I am now satisfied that Cain didn't intend to talk down to me. But really the matter is between me and Cain. While I appreciate your input, I really just want to hear his response. Otherwise it's just continuing this.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

Also, just for clarity, no tone was intended in that last post other than weariness. If anyone else wants to comment on the non-drama parts of the thread, I certainly don't mind. Just want to get the drama bullshit resolved. If it's resolved, just want confirmation.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Pæs

Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 30, 2011, 03:39:43 AM
Also, just for clarity, no tone was intended in that last post other than weariness. If anyone else wants to comment on the non-drama parts of the thread, I certainly don't mind. Just want to get the drama bullshit resolved. If it's resolved, just want confirmation.
What the fuck, man?

We all work really hard on this culture of butthurt. Why are you trying to ruin that by maturely managing conflict?

Why do you hate Discordia?

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Beardman Meow on December 30, 2011, 03:45:12 AM
Quote from: Areola Shinerbock on December 30, 2011, 03:39:43 AM
Also, just for clarity, no tone was intended in that last post other than weariness. If anyone else wants to comment on the non-drama parts of the thread, I certainly don't mind. Just want to get the drama bullshit resolved. If it's resolved, just want confirmation.
What the fuck, man?

We all work really hard on this culture of butthurt. Why are you trying to ruin that by maturely managing conflict?

Why do you hate Discordia?

OK, that put me in a better mood. Thanks, man. :lol:

Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Pæs


LMNO

Quote from: Cain on December 29, 2011, 08:12:07 PM
Your flaw is in thinking "a few malcontents on the internet" constitute The Public (itself a convenient fiction).

Obama's response is already pre-determined.  It is "fuck you, you already voted for me.  If it bothers you so much, cast a ballot for Gingrinch.  Or Nader.  Ahahahaha".

The Public is just one interest group, 50% of whom don't ever vote, and, of the remaining 50%, roughly 45% will vote for one particular party because of the beastly, partisan and naked ideological commitment of the other, 45% do the same for the opposing party, 2.5% are "independents" who vote based on an ill-concieved notion of political centrism and 2.5% support third parties. 

The Public aint shit compared to Goldman Sachs, Wackenhut or the Pentagon.  The only way this law is going to get repealed is if someone goes to far and locks up Somone Important and With Connections, ie; a member of the ruling elite.  Until then, The Public will just have to suck it up.

I have an honest question regarding realpolitik:  Is there a general line that could realistically be crossed that would make an online petition effective?  Sure, a few thousand mouse clicks won't do much, but what about a million?  1.5 million?  1.57 million?  (Which, at that point would be over half of the population...) 

What I'm trying to say is whether there's some point where the "people", while not having the physical or monetary resources to compete with Government Inc., would somehow hit a psychological limit that would indeed influence Obama's behavior; and if that limit is realistically possible to reach.

AFK

I think if there was a groundswell of people that e-signed some petition and THEN hit the streets and started walking that talk, then, perhaps, there could be some movement.  I think that is where the real problem lies.  It is easy to e-sign a petition.  It's easy to post a rant on a message board.  It is easy to bitch at a coffee shop about the Republicans destroying America.

But until the rubber hits the road, it's just hot gas.  Things that have happened have pissed off a few shitneck tea-baggers and some hippies here and there, but until it hits middle America, it just isn't going to go anywhere. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.